Lever Action Calling Me

[Raoul Duke]

So as a guy who generally prefers black and metal over brown and wood, I have been feeling an uncharacteristic pull towards a lever action rifle lately.

I don't know where this desire came from but, as usual, I intend to indulge it.

I got to looking around and thinking about what cal I might want, if I wanted one (a rifle). Honestly, I'd use it for range plinking, and socially acceptable firearm purposes. You know, sometimes you don't necessarily want to be seen with your "Angel of Death AR," but you'd still like to have a rifle with you?

Since I'm not hunting with it, I thought perhaps a carbine version chambered for a pistol round, like a .357 or a .44 mag/special, rather than the ever present 30/30 Win. or the .308.

I've been looking at the Marlin line, the 1894 line as well as the 336, though that one doesn't come in pistol caliber.

I'd like to hear your (collective) thoughts on these guns and other similar options. I am a particular newbie with regards to lever action rifles and, in fact, I've never even shot one before.

Anyway, I open my shaky plans up to comment. I am still recovering from a recent spate of consumerism so I probably won't pull the trigger on this for another 4 weeks. But I would love to hear about your experiences with them, preferences, tips etc.

 

[Lucas McCain]

The biggest advantage to a lever gun is how small they are, no bolt handles or other protrusions make it really easy to handle and carry, besides they are just way cool!

I have a 336 chambered in .30-30 and I love everything but the price of the rounds. I can reload them for about .50 a shot. So I also have an 1894 chambered in .44 mag. That one is my plinking gun, reloads are relatively cheap. I dont own one but marlin makes a lever action 22 as well.

You cant go wrong with Marlin, they make excellent weapons and their customer service is tops. I have never had a problem with either of my Marlins.

One more thing, if you can find one, get an older version. They dont have the lawyered up triggers and safety's. The newer ones can be modified or you can live with them as-is but the older ones are just so much nicer.

Joe

 

[hminsky]

I had a Marlin .357 which was fun enough, but when I got down to it, I really wished I had a Winchester, or at least a Winchester reproduction (Puma, Uberti). The Marlin bugged me because it's screws tended to loosen up, seemed like something they ought to have debugged after a century. Also, the lever action had to be held horizontal when cycling or it could jam
badly. I think the Winchester is just a better design, and also I think Browning himself had something to do with it's original design, which is itself a powerful reason to get one.

I have a .44 magnum Winchester 92, which I'm keeping for a friend, and it is fun. The only thing is I would like a better rear sight, the factory one is pretty bad.

If I had the $$, I'd buy a .30-30 Winchester centennial model, they are around $1k on gunbroker though.

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104402094

 

[economist]

I too have been thinking about a lever action. My thinking is that the pistol caliber guns are nice for plinking, but for a serious all-around file I would stick with the .30-30. The .357 mag out of a rifle caries about 1/2 of the velocity and energy of the .30-30, while the .44 rem. mag is about in the middle. Recoil for the .357 mag is very light, while .30-30 is about the same as for a .243 -- not bad at all, but maybe a little tiring for an extended plinking session. So, in true gun owner fashion, I likely will end up getting a .357 mag lever action for plinking and fun, and a .30-30 for all-around use.

 

[Palladin]

I have a Marlin 336C in .35Rem..fun to shoot.

 

[FPrice]

Lever action rifles are fun guns. The best reason for a pistol caliber rifle is as a companion to a pistol in that caliber. If you are not going to match two guns like this but want an effective and powerful rifle, stick with a rifle caliber such as .30-30.

 

[N.E. CHARTERS]

Only One desision that you need to make.

Do you want a .44 Mag or a .357 MAG? oh yea.


they have that .45 Long Colt for you SASS guys also.

You buy the .44 Mag Ammo and Ill let you try one at the range sometime.

 

[LORD of WAR]

rauol were you at 4 seasons the other day askin about them?

 

[strangenh]

The .357 mag out of a rifle caries about 1/2 of the velocity and energy of the .30-30[...]

Hmm. 125gr .357mag breaks 2100fps out of a lever. 158gr will do about 2000fps. That's quite a bit more than "half" the velocity when a typical 150gr .30-30 runs about 2400fps. You'll be even happier than you're expecting with that .357mag!

The .357mag rocks out of long barrels, getting over 50fps per barrel inch up to around 20". I have loads that exceed 2200fps without going overpressure, and the Marlin 1894 in .357 is WAY overbuilt. It can take some rockin' rounds. 18.5" is probably the ideal length, though I really like trapper lengths (just over 16").

Buffalo Bore Ammo gets two of their loads almost into the 7.62x39 range!

Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps---- Can you believe this?!!!
Item 19D/20-125gr. Speer Uni Core = 2298 fps---- Or this?!!!

So, yeah, I'd get a .357 mag lever. In fact, I have one, and I do not miss 30-30 - pricey, long for what it does, and not really any cheaper than the .308 I have tons of (and I have a Browning .308 lever on order).

Since I'm not hunting with it, I thought perhaps a carbine version chambered for a pistol round, like a .357 or a .44 mag/special, rather than the ever present 30/30 Win. or the .308.

I have a Marlin 1894 16.5"bbl, and if you ever want to try it at MFL or at a NES shoot, drop me a line and I'll bring it along.

It IS true what hminsky says about a couple of the screws in the 1894 - if you use a penetrating oil that gets onto them, the screws WILL work loose if you don't degrease them. I just purple Locktite them and never worry (purple stuff is rubbery, not hard, so you can adjust or remove them without having to use heat or solvent).

 

[Raoul Duke]

rauol were you at 4 seasons the other day askin about them?

Nope...but it probably coulda been!

Great advice guys. I appreciate your experiences and perspective very much.

 

[MetroWest]

Not the most practical way to spend $1,800 but I'd would love to get one someday.

http://www.grizzlyguns.com/forsale/

You can Google "Big Lewie" to see some other photos.

 

[hminsky]

I should add that the Marlin .357 was one of the most well balanced and natural pointing rifles I have handled. I got an aperture sight for it from skinnersights.com.

 

[jhrosier]

Raoul,
The .357 in a lever gun is a good choice for all around use.
It is well suited for "deer sized" targets out to 100 yards or slightly beyond, with proper bullets.

My choice was the Winchester Model 94 but many folks like the Marlins as well.
I like the option of shooting everything from light .38 Spl handloads to full power .357 Magnum loads.
Even with full power loads, the .357 in a levergun is easy for a beginner to handle.

I find the Model 94 carbine in .357 caliber to be handy and capable, combining the firepower of the M16 with nostalgic memories of the old west, in a package that does not unduly alarm the sheeple.

The only possible downside is the highly addictive nature of leverguns. One thing somehow lead to another and I wound up with leverguns in .22RF, .357 Mag, .44 mag, 30-30 Win., 38-55 Win., .300 Savage, 30-06,.32-40, .358 Win., .405 Win., and 45-70.
I'm still thinking about a .30-40 and maybe a .38WCF.

Jack

 

[strangenh]

The only possible downside is the highly addictive nature of leverguns. One thing somehow lead to another and I wound up with leverguns in .22RF, .357 Mag, .44 mag, 30-30 Win., 38-55 Win., .300 Savage, 30-06,.32-40, .358 Win., .405 Win., and 45-70.

"One gun a month" is NOT a 12-step program.

 

[matt]

I have a wierd jones going for a lever in 30-30 and a 12ga coach gun... my inner cowboy coming out? Don't know, but I don't think I can hold out much longer.

Funny thing is these guns don't meet any practicle application for me. It's just a "want it" thing.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Not the most practical way to spend $1,800 but I'd would love to get one someday.

http://www.grizzlyguns.com/forsale/

You can Google "Big Lewie" to see some other photos.

While I have nothing against $1800 guns, I was particularly excited to pick something up that could be had below the $500 mark. After a $1400 AR and such, I was looking forward to writing a small check for once.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I'm right with you on getting a lever action. I've been wanting one for a while now. C-Pher let me try out his Puma at last year's truck shoot. It was a sweet shooter. I've had my eye out for one ever since. I stupidly passed on one up at Kittery that was going in the $400 range for a used stainless model. After seeing the price for the new ones, I've been kicking myself for a while now for not buying it.

 

[Coyote Whiskey]

Lever Guns

Raoul Duke,
Being A cowboy shooter I have 5 lever guns, why, I don't know, just can't help myself:
Marlin Carbine .357
Marlin .357 24 in barrel
Marlin .45LC Carbine
Marlin 45-70
Uberti Winchester 66 45LC
I love them and they are a hoot to shoot.
Shoot my S&W or Rugers and then the Marlins - no need to bring a different caliber.
The reasons I lean toward the Marlins are
1) Made in the USA
2) Easier to take apart and clean.
3) Easier to slick up so they run as smooth as butter
4) Built to last forever.
5) Reasonable priced.
6) Have never shot a Marlin I did not like.

The reason I bought the Uberti Win 66... It is so pretty (brass receiver).

Hope it helps
CW

 

[MetroWest]

While I have nothing against $1800 guns, I was particularly excited to pick something up that could be had below the $500 mark. After a $1400 AR and such, I was looking forward to writing a small check for once.

That's the nice thing about lever actions - you can buy them used for short money. I bought a Marlin 336cs used from Collectors 4 yrs ago w/light scuffing on the wood and pristine metal for $250. Probably had no more that a single box of ammo through it. I put a Williams peep & front firesight on it and it makes a great plinker with Federal 3030c ammo (125g hp)

 

[economist]

Hmm. 125gr .357mag breaks 2100fps out of a lever. 158gr will do about 2000fps. That's quite a bit more than "half" the velocity when a typical 150gr .30-30 runs about 2400fps. You'll be even happier than you're expecting with that .357mag!

The .357mag rocks out of long barrels, getting over 50fps per barrel inch up to around 20". I have loads that exceed 2200fps without going overpressure, and the Marlin 1894 in .357 is WAY overbuilt. It can take some rockin' rounds. 18.5" is probably the ideal length, though I really like trapper lengths (just over 16").

Buffalo Bore Ammo gets two of their loads almost into the 7.62x39 range!

So, yeah, I'd get a .357 mag lever. In fact, I have one, and I do not miss 30-30 - pricey, long for what it does, and not really any cheaper than the .308 I have tons of (and I have a Browning .308 lever on order).

Good point. I was using data from chuckhawks.com and comparing typical loads for each at 100 yards (e.g., a 158gr .357 carrying 715 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards vs. a 150gr .30-30 with 1356 ft-lbs). At that distance, and for this example, the .30-30 does appear to be carrying about twice the energy. But, as you note, for more powerful .357 loads, the performance gap can be substantially smaller.

 

[strangenh]

Good point. I was using data from chuckhawks.com and comparing typical loads for each at 100 yards (e.g., a 158gr .357 carrying 715 ft-lbs of energy at 100 yards vs. a 150gr .30-30 with 1356 ft-lbs). At that distance, and for this example, the .30-30 does appear to be carrying about twice the energy. But, as you note, for more powerful .357 loads, the performance gap can be substantially smaller.

Yeah, that's because the cross-section of a .30-30 will give it better performance than a .357mag over longer-ranges (better ballistic coefficient). That's good a point that didn't come up and should!

Also, of course, since energy increases as the square of velocity, it will change radically for less than obvious differences in velocity. So Chuck's numbers there reflect not SUCH a radical difference in velocity:

.30-30 150gr with 1356ftlbs is going 2020fps
.357mag 158gr with 715ftlbs is going 1430fps (still over the typical .357/158gr muzzle velocity from a 6" bbl)

You can certainly see from the above that the .30-30 makes a better long-range round, but that a .357 carbine gives you the ability to deliver full-force .357mag power at 100 yards, which is pretty darned cool.

 

[TonyDedo]

I got the lever action itch last year when I shot a friend's lever action in 45-70 (still not entirely sure of the model). I've had my eyes peeled for a .357 simply because I already shoot .357 revolvers, and I like to simplify the calibers I have on hand (plus I'm sure I'll start reloading .357 eventually, once the dies climb high enough on my priority list). I still haven't found the right rifle, but I have some cash stuffed in a mayonnaise jar for that day.

 

[BOBKATT]

get an 1892 if you want a lever for pistol cartridges for plinking around/cowboy stuff. Get a 1894 chambered in 30-30 if you want more power for hunting. Winchester 1894 chambered in 30-30 is hands down my favorite rifle, not just lever rifle. The cartridge is a reloaders dream and is capable for hunting, but not too brutal for a little fun at the range. Plus they're just beautiful to look at.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Well, it's not for me, but you can safely say you're probably not going to run into anyone else at the ball wearing the same dress as you!

Winchester Model 94AE “Trapper” in .44 Magnum. 16 inch barrel. Holds 9 rounds (10 rounds in you are loading .44 Specials) in the tubular magazine plus 1 in the chamber. Gun customized by Brockman’s Rifles out of Idaho. He installed the quick detachable scout mount ($245 value) and mounted the 1½X Burris scope ($150) and epoxied the stock black ($95 value). Gun includes the 1½ power Burris scope with German post reticule and custom quick detachable rings. Backup iron sights are a Williams Ghost ring system ($80). This is a state-of-the-art assault rifle for jurisdictions such as California – who can object to a lever action “cowboy” gun? Excellent condition.

ETC....



The other thing that attracts me to the lever action guns is that, for once, (as a MA resident) I can actually have virtually any model on the market. No limitations, no MA variants etc...it's nice not to have to sit on the "Group W Bench" sometimes.