Liberty Training Rifle - Winter Project

[massgun]

As the title says, I intend to build an LTR. I am starting with a stainless steel, synthetic stock 10/22 I bought years ago but have shot very little. I have already installed the Volquartsen extended mag release and the quick bolt release. I would like to spend the least amount I can to get a workable rifle.

First, I want to replace the original stock because it is very thin and light and just plain ugly! I am looking at the Hogue overmolded type. The question is, which one? They have one overmolded with the same rubber as their grips and one with a hard nylon. Each one, I'm sure, has their own pluses and minuses and I can't quite decide.

As far as the barrel is concerned, I would like to keep the original. I currently have an inexpensive scope on the rifle and it seems accurate enough. Would there be any advantage in changing it to one of the longer, bull barrels?

When it comes to sights, I would prefer to leave the variable power scope that is currently on it, or at least mount a red-dot as my eyes are not that great. I would like to attend an appleseed shoot, so if that requires iron sights only, I'd go with the recommended Tech SIGHTS.

I welcome all advice, opinions and recommendations. Thanks for your input.

 

[TonyDedo]

IMO, the core of the Liberty Training Rifle is the Tech Sights - the whole purpose of the LTR is to mimic a full sized battle rifle. A 10/22 with a scope on it isn't really an LTR, it's just a 10/22 with a scope. That being said, if you have really shitty eyesight, go with the scope. Otherwise, stick with the iron sights - that's what the Appleseed program will teach you to use.

Get whatever stock you're most comfortable with - just keep in mind that most aftermarket stocks are set up for .920 bull barrels, not the factory carbine barrel that's on your 10/22.

For an LTR, there's really no accuracy gained by upgrading the barrel. The Appleseed program is designed to shoot at 25 meters, where an upgraded barrel will make little to no difference. And when they do go 'full distance' you'll want to switch out to a full power rifle anyway (a .22LR round doesn't do well at 400 yards).

On the other hand, I have a bull barrel on my LTR (it's built off a 10/22-T), but I have it on there because I like the weight and the stock the rifle came with. The carbine is just too light for me to shoot comfortably. But be aware, the Tech Sights are much more difficult to install on a bull barrel.

Did you get the VQ hammer with the bolt release? That's also a great (and inexpensive) buy. It brought my 10/22 trigger pull down to a smooth, consistent 2 1/2 lbs.

And finally, you'll want a sling.

 

[Cledus J. Crabb]

I'd like to do my 10/22 over with Tech-Sights, a crisp trigger and a heavy barrel and make it as close to a no-frills battle rifle as I can; just reshape the old original stock to accept the .920 bbl and install an M1 web sling on simple swivels. Maybe do over the mag and bolt release, too.
How many NESers have actually done one over to make a real nice Appleseed rifle?

 

[Bob P]

I'd like to do my 10/22 over with Tech-Sights, a crisp trigger and a heavy barrel and make it as close to a no-frills battle rifle as I can; just reshape the old original stock to accept the .920 bbl and install an M1 web sling on simple swivels. Maybe do over the mag and bolt release, too.
How many NESers have actually done one over to make a real nice Appleseed rifle?

Yes. Dwarven1 posted it as a stickey someplace. Use the search function for Liberty Training Rifle.

 

[Firewall99]

I did the fancy 10/22 mod project, and this is what I learned.

First I bought an extended mag release, but it was the wrong one and didn't allow the mag to be inserted smoothly without an extra motion. I went back to the one that came with the rifle and had that one drilled to accept the extra vertical piece that allows the quick release. That was not as pretty, but it allows the mags to go both in and out smoothly.

Along the way I also got the bolt hold back piece and the bolt buffer.

Then I bought an ambixterous stock, the "T-Rex," since I am left-handed. It solved my length of pull (LOP) problem as I have an LOP longer than most people's are. The stock was heavy.

Well, as mentioned above, the stock was designed for a bull barrel. Oops. So I got one of those from Kidd. The barrel is a tack driver, all right, but, again, it was heavy.

The next unintended consequence was that the barrel had a tighter chamber. This required the Kidd extractor to reliaably get the cartridges to extract. Luckily, that was cheap.

I've lent the rifle out at Appleseeds, and everybody so far has loved it. It has a solid feel and is really accurate. But it is HEAVY. When in the standing position ready to shoot, and someone has a last minute issue before the L-word, it's not fun holding it for any length of time. It did cause me to learn the standby position, so that was good.

So while I would never build such a rifle for field work (it's too long and did I mention heavy?), it was a rewarding experience for all the things I learned. At a steep price, however. I am too embarassed to say what I spent. Could have bought three 10/22's for the price. Yikes!

And it seems that I'm not done learning. Haven't yet addressed the trigger, because the Kidd trigger is just too much money at $350+. Now I see that TonyDedo says that a Volquartsen hammer will bring the trigger pull down to 2 1/2 pounds. How does that work? Sounds like it would be less expensive to solve the trigger issue that way. Is that true???

 

[dwarven1]

Haven't yet addressed the trigger, because the Kidd trigger is just too much money at $350+. Now I see that TonyDedo says that a Volquartsen hammer will bring the trigger pull down to 2 1/2 pounds. How does that work? Sounds like it would be less expensive to solve the trigger issue that way. Is that true???

Arrgh... how many times do I have to say that Rimfire Central has directions on how to do it yourself?????

I did this to my own rifle and it lightened up and smoothed out the trigger noticeably. Is it Olympic target rifle quality? No... if I'd wanted that, I'd have bought a Kidd. Is it much better than it was?? ABSOLUTELY. Nice and smooth.

Guys... all you need is a very fine file or a stone, a vise and a 1/8" drill bit or drill rod. Takes maybe 15 mniutes, and that's including takedown and reassembly.

 

[Firewall99]

Arrgh... how many times do I have to say that Rimfire Central has directions on how to do it yourself?????

Guys... all you need is a very fine file or a stone, a vise and a 1/8" drill bit or drill rod. Takes maybe 15 mniutes, and that's including takedown and reassembly.

Wow. I can do that. I think I have just the file, too. It's a very fine, diamond-impregnated file for sharpening sissors.

Are these stones you and Cletus are talking about the stones used for sharpening knives? Jeeze, I think I have one of those, too. Super!

Day's not wasted--I learned something. Thanks, Ross!

PS. Yeah, you'll probably have to tell someone else again, too, so get used to it, OK? It is posted on the Appleseed forum, right?

 

[dwarven1]

Wow. I can do that. I think I have just the file, too. It's a very fine, diamond-impregnated file for sharpening scissors.

Be careful with that diamond file - I suspect that scissors are a lot har4der than the hammer on a 10/22, so it may take off material pretty quick. Slow and light are your watchwords.

It is posted on the Appleseed forum, right?

Yeah, somewhere in that 30+ page thread.

 

[Nickle]

It's not rocket science guys.

Dwarven1 has done a couple of them, I;ve done at least 7 of them.

I file my triggers, but my file skills are way better than average (should be, I've been doing file work for decades). I'll suggest using a stone. Hard Arkansas stone works, and removes metal slow enough and leaves a smoth enough surface.

Scope or Tech-Sights, it's still an LTR, trust me. I was in on some of the first ones, with Grin Reaper.

 

[dwarven1]

I file my triggers, but my file skills are way better than average (should be, I've been doing file work for decades). I'll suggest using a stone. Hard Arkansas stone works, and removes metal slow enough and leaves a smoth enough surface.

Oh... right. In the interest of full disclosure, I should probably mention that I've worked as a machinist, had a home shop for basically all my life, and have, in the past, repaired antique watches as a hobby. So yeah, I have a few skills with a file, too.

That said, if you go slow, you won't have a problem. Just remember, you can't put material back on the piece you're filing. So do a bit, reassemble and check out the trigger pull, and, if necessary, repeat.

WARNING!! If, upon test firing, you discover that it fires TWO or more shots on pulling the trigger ONCE, STOP RIGHT THERE. Unload and break down the rifle. Go home IMMEDIATELY and hammer the hammer into shapeless scrap and order a new one; they're cheap. Reason? 'Cause the BATF will consider that a machine gun and prosecute you accordingly if they find out. Even having a PART which will make your rifle fire full auto is verboten.

Don't mean to scare you, but they don't care if it's merely a defective sear (as opposed to a modified one, which you're doing) - they'll nail you. So go slow, and take off a little at a time.

 

[Nickle]

Now, I just happened to KNOW that Dwarven1 could do it with a file, though I did forget for a moment (should have mentioned it before). Filing the hammer isn't for the squeamish, and like he said, if it doubles, or goes full auto, IMMEDIATELY beat that hammer into a glob of nothing, and get a new one. They aren't all that expensive, but us really cheap misers still do our own.

 

[dwarven1]

And, of course, the best reason for using a fine stone is that you will produce a very smooth surface, which will give you the best "feel". Files cut more coarsely, and produce a rougher surface.

Ruger, I suspect, uses a ROCK to produce that wonderful stock trigger pull. Or a rasp. Maybe a belt sander.

 

[Nickle]

Funny, I was thinking oxy-acetylene torch or plasma cutter.

Nah, the plasma cutter would leave it too smooth for Ruger to use.

 

[Chuck]

I ordered Tech Sights last night -- I'm gonna finally get on this LTR band waggon! How hard can this Appleseed thing be?

 

[dwarven1]

I ordered Tech Sights last night -- I'm gonna finally get on this LTR band waggon! How hard can this Appleseed thing be?

Heh, heh, heh... you'll find out. See you in Athol in February? With the wife? (Hey, she's from Russia, she should be used to cold weather, right?)

 

[matt]

Funny, I was thinking oxy-acetylene torch or plasma cutter.

Nah, the plasma cutter would leave it too smooth for Ruger to use.

It's funny that they've become the standard of 22lr long arms with such a horrible trigger. I suppose that is as much a statement about us as consumers as it is about Ruger...

 

[dwarven1]

Not to mention awful sights...

 

[Chuck]

To continue the thread with another LTR question -- can anyone recommend a set of see-thru rings that work with the Tech-Sights to mount a scope to my LTR?

 

[TonyDedo]

Arrgh... how many times do I have to say that Rimfire Central has directions on how to do it yourself?????

I did this to my own rifle and it lightened up and smoothed out the trigger noticeably. Is it Olympic target rifle quality? No... if I'd wanted that, I'd have bought a Kidd. Is it much better than it was?? ABSOLUTELY. Nice and smooth.

Guys... all you need is a very fine file or a stone, a vise and a 1/8" drill bit or drill rod. Takes maybe 15 mniutes, and that's including takedown and reassembly.

Unlike Dwarven1 and Nickle, I'm not very handy and don't trust myself taking a file to a hammer. I just ordered the VQ hammer and bolt release package from Midway for $30 (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=145851), dropped it in, and instant 2 1/2 trigger, no muss, no fuss. I've done this on 3 10/22s (2 of them used and over 20 years old), and every one has a consistent 2 1/2 trigger pull.

Yes, my KID trigger is a bit smoother, but for 10% of the price, the VQ package does a damn fine job.

To continue the thread with another LTR question -- can anyone recommend a set of see-thru rings that work with the Tech-Sights to mount a scope to my LTR?

The Tech Sights utilize the holes you'd use to mount a scope on a 10/22, so I'm not sure if you'd be able to mount both Tech Sights and a scope at the same time. Maybe you could rig it using only the 2 forward screws, but I don't know how stable your scope would be.

Honestly, I paid $90 for two of my 10/22s. If you want a scope and iron sights, just buy two rifles. And you'll appreciate having the extra rifle when it comes to taking new folks to the range.

 

[Snapshot]

.

Please forgive the hijack....

TonyDedo, I've been trying to reach you. Your input is needed in the 1911 thread. Please respond right away or your order is going to be at risk.


Sorry... back to the thread at hand.


I'm was building a LTR but the project stalled because I'm waiting on a replacement spring from volquartsen customer service. It's been a few weeks now and I haven't even heard back from them if it's shipped or not.

 

[Nickle]

To continue the thread with another LTR question -- can anyone recommend a set of see-thru rings that work with the Tech-Sights to mount a scope to my LTR?

No can do. The Tech Sights use the back 2 screws for one, so mounting is going to be less than adequate (and loose). And, secondly, Tech Sights are too tall to consider doing a usable see through set up.

Best bet is Tony Dedo's idea. Buy 2 of them. Dick's has them sometimes at $190 or so, and Wal-mart (when you find one that sells them) was about $185 last I knew. And, those are for new ones. A used one will work, too.

 

[Bob P]

So I just picked up a 10/22 at Dicks (on sale for 189 through today or tomorrow & get an extra $10 off via coupon if you get the 'outdoor club' package) yesterday in Dedham.

I'm ordering my tech sights etc and have been playing with the gun and reading the manual. It says not to use lock-tite if adding a scope as the pre-drilled holes open up over the bolt and the stuff may drip on the bolt. I see that the tech sights use the rear 2 scope holes for mounting. Can you mount w/o lock-tite w/o it coming loose and losing zero? If you do use it, how do you use it 'safely'?

 

[JonJ]

Use the Loctite. You won't have a problem if you use it sparingly. If you're worried about it dripping into the action, strip it down first.

 

[Bob P]

Use the Loctite. You won't have a problem if you use it sparingly. If you're worried about it dripping into the action, strip it down first.

Thanks. I figured it was one of those 'I'm putting this in here so we don't get sued by people with no common sense' warnings. Just double checking.

 

[JonJ]

Here's another hint. For the front sight don't sock down the set screw too hard. The sight base made of alloy and not very hard. Use Loctite on the set screw and just snug it up. Some people use Loctite on the sight base as well before they slip it into the dovetail.
I'm on my 3rd front sight. The first one was loose as a goose and the second one had a faulty detent. The third one has been ok so far but it cost me over $20

 

[dwarven1]

Can you mount w/o lock-tite w/o it coming loose and losing zero? If you do use it, how do you use it 'safely'?

No, you can't. Use the loctite - put it on the screws before installing the sight.

Use the Loctite. You won't have a problem if you use it sparingly. If you're worried about it dripping into the action, strip it down first.

Also, before you put the bolt back in, check to make sure that the ends of the screws don't stick out into the receiver. I don't think you'll have this problem with the Tech-Sights - they seem to know how to do their stuff right - but I did have this problem with an aftermarket Weaver/Picatinny rail that I installed. Couldn't figure out what I'd done wrong to make the bolt lock up until I looked at the screws...

 

[dixidawg]

Comb riser?

So, I have "mature" eyes looking through bifocals. They don't cooperate well with iron sights. I mounted a scope last night, but....

It sits too high for me to get a good cheek weld. I need something to bring the comb up a bit. I found this at Cabelas.

Any opinions? If not that, what else is out thare that is recommended?

EDIT: It is going on this rifle.

 

[massgun]

I wound up getting the Hogue overmolded (rubber) stock, the Tech Sights, the Volquartsen hammer and the rapidex windage knob for my LTR build. I got the Tech Sights on with no difficulty (also no problem getting originals off) and am familiarizing myself with the diagrams of the trigger group in order to install the hammer.

As for the Rapidex knob, no instructions, so how is this installed? I tried to search for this here and on rimfire central, but could not find anything, so if anyone knows or has better search skills please post.

I'm anxious to get it out to the range to see if these sights work ok for me. My old eyes aren't the greatest, but I wanted to try iron sights first rather than leaving the scope on it or using a red-dot. I'm just waiting for a decent day, preferably above 36 degrees.