MA - Farmer Shoots & Kills Neighbor's Dog Running Loose

[terraformer]

Dogs typically rip the hamstrings of deer etc and then leave after they've had their fun leaving a crippled animal to suffer an agonizing death. Kill the dog, kill it. Or let the cops do it for you.

Domesticated dogs can and do catch one of these guys? hmmm... OK, if you guys say so. I would have thought that a loose dog would chase for a little bit and then find something else to play with when they couldn't catch it.

 

[garandman]

//
goldens bite more people than pit bulls do. But goldens dont make for good news.

Citation needed.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm
http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-statistics.htm

Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada,
September 1982 to June 25, 2010
By compiling U.S. and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2010, Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, shows the breeds most responsible for serious injury and death.
The combination of pit bulls, rottweilers, presa canarios, and their mixes:
80% of attacks that induce bodily harm
70% of attacks to children
83% of attack to adults
69% of attacks that result in fatalities
75% that result in maiming

 

[n1oty]

You must not be acquainted with country living. I recall an episode nearly 30 years ago at my in-laws house in Ohio where a neighbors dog got into the chicken coop and killed a couple of chickens. It came back a couple of more times and killed a chicken or two each time. Finally, my mother-in-law waited at the suspected time of day with her shotgun and ambushed that dog. She explained to me that once a dog got the taste of blood, killing them was the only recourse. She killed the dog and called the neighbor to get the carcass. There were no arguments. The sheriff was not called. The neighbor actually agreed with the necessity.

Domesticated dogs can and do catch one of these guys? hmmm... OK, if you guys say so. I would have thought that a loose dog would chase for a little bit and then find something else to play with when they couldn't catch it.

 

[Fixxah]

Deer don't have the stamina of a dog and therefore cannot the dog's nose. The dogs will push them until they stop running and have no energy left. Like a thoroughbred horse, it won't run fast for long periods.

 

[Lignum Vitea]

I have free range chickens and dogs from time to time pass through my dooryard. It is easy to tell between the ones that are playfully on the chase to the ones that are looking for a kill.

 

[GM-GUY]

Living in small town Central Mass, when I was a kid the dog officer had enough of the calls "If a dog is bothering, harming, or just loose around your animals (we had a farm) shoot it, bury it, and forget about it.

Leash LAWS, I don't care how cute he/she/it is, if it is doing harm ON MY PROPERTY - it's dead.

 

[bigjim]

too bad for the owner keep your dog on your property if you dont want something bad to happen to it.

one of my dogs loves to bolt at any chance its extremely freindly to humans and too small to harm a deer not that there are any around here but if it gets hit by a car or attacks someones cat and they kill it its not their fault.

my neighbor used to have a lab that they would leave unleashed in their small unfenced property and it would take umbridge to pepole walking on its sidewalk

this is a pretty populated area i was walking down the sidewalk it was barking at me and off leash i crossed to road it came closer and was growling and barking i gave it a face full of mace and kept walking.


animal control had a chat with them and i have never seen it out in the street again

 

[Martlet]

Domesticated dogs can and do catch one of these guys? hmmm... OK, if you guys say so. I would have thought that a loose dog would chase for a little bit and then find something else to play with when they couldn't catch it.

It's worse in the winter, particularly with snow like this year. Deer will yard in snow. They can't walk on it. Dogs will hit the yards and either chase deer until they catch them, or just run them to the point of exhaustion. Either way, they typically die.

 

[BigMike]

tough shit, stupid owner.

Last time a dog came running at me while i was walking my dogs, i told the owner that i would kill his F-ING dog if he ever walked him lose again and came running at me. That guy uses a leash from now.

what if he bites someone? you are liable.

irresponsible hunters?

i almost shot a husky at night while i was looking for coyotes. the dog run away. I saw him getting closer so i decided to wait and get a nice shot, i could have shot him at 50 yards, but it was getting closer. then when the animal was close enough i realized it was a husky.

Now, lets say i did shoot him. would that make me an irresponsible hunter?



goldens bite more people than pit bulls do. But goldens dont make for good news.

So we agree. Good. I brought up irresponsible hunters as a nod to how every year there are hunters that shoot PEOPLE in the woods. Not much of a stretch to think they wouldn't mistakenly shoot a dog. I had never heard of dogs chasing deer, but apparently it seems to be a valid argument.
The only reason I mention a GR is that it looks distinctly different from a coyote. But as I stated, it would be my fault so I couldn't blame him.

 

[Plural of Mongoose]

Im just telling it like it was. Obviously the dog officer in my hometown was not aware of or didnt care about MGL 131 Sec 82. Neither did the EPO (who I am sure you worked with)who lived up the street.

As far as numbers 13 and 14 I would suggest that you look at MGL 131 Sec 82. The only persons who are allowed by law to shoot a dog chasing deer are; The Environmental Police and The State Police. If some one could link that MGL I would appreciate it. I still don't know how to do it. Thank You in advance.

 

[Gibbs]

Deer don't have the stamina of a dog and therefore cannot the dog's nose. The dogs will push them until they stop running and have no energy left. Like a thoroughbred horse, it won't run fast for long periods.

It's worse in the winter, particularly with snow like this year. Deer will yard in snow. They can't walk on it. Dogs will hit the yards and either chase deer until they catch them, or just run them to the point of exhaustion. Either way, they typically die.

Yep, in this late winter, the dogs can frequently run on top of the sintered snow, while deer collapse through the top crust making them easier to catch.

Interesting story. Another slow news day at the Eagle, I guess.

I remember a few years ago while driving home there was a dog walking in the middle of the road near my house. He was obviously an older dog. I called the owner from the dog tag. He said, "just leave him be... he'll eventually come home". ...

Lots of dogs roam (read "slip off their leashes") here.
Then again, there is a lot of out-of-season gunfire, too...

When we first moved to far-west MA, one farmer neighbor woman asked us accusingly "Was that your dog chasing my deer yesterday?"

(It wasn't, but..."Your" deer?)

When we had a husky, she ran out of the house once and the damn dog ran and ran. I, like an idiot, ran after her since (a) I didn't want some logging truck getting in a huge accident hitting or trying to avoid her (b) I didn't want her biting some child, (c) I didn't want some farmer shooting her and then I'd have to explain it to my family.

'Cause it would be my fault.

The whole time I ran through pastures after her, I thought "these freaking dogs pull sleds for a hundred miles--I'll never catch her and I'll be found next season in the woods dead of a heart attack."

 

[wolf223]

wonder what caliber he used.

9mm or 40

 

[Climbnsink]

BTDT Huskies think it great fun to go running 'with' their owners while staying just out of reach.

The whole time I ran through pastures after her, I thought "these freaking dogs pull sleds for a hundred miles--I'll never catch her and I'll be found next season in the woods dead of a heart attack."

 

[CRSIII]

wonder what caliber he used.

9mm or 40

Wise guy.

 

[Gibbs]

BTDT Huskies think it great fun to go running 'with' their owners while staying just out of reach.

Exactly.

After that dog died (she committed suicide), I said "I'm never doing that again, running after a fast dog."

So my wife got a greyhound...

(I put up a 60" hog fence.)

 

[davemata]

Citation needed.

http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Articles/OtherBreedBites/AllDogsBite.htm
http://www.dogsbite.org/bite-statistics.htm

That's reported incidents, I'm sure you'd find the real rate much different, where those crappy little purse dogs are the worst, and then goldens next, due to population.

 

[davemata]

BTDT Huskies think it great fun to go running 'with' their owners while staying just out of reach.

Norweigian Elkhounds are like that as well. When mine would get out I'd run her dead tired with my jeep, give her some water, toss her in the back and drive home.

 

[M1911]

Domesticated dogs can and do catch one of these guys? hmmm... OK, if you guys say so. I would have thought that a loose dog would chase for a little bit and then find something else to play with when they couldn't catch it.

Deer don't have a lot of stamina; dogs have a lot more stamina. If they are motivated, they will run the deer down.

 

[terraformer]

You must not be acquainted with country living. I recall an episode nearly 30 years ago at my in-laws house in Ohio where a neighbors dog got into the chicken coop and killed a couple of chickens. It came back a couple of more times and killed a chicken or two each time. Finally, my mother-in-law waited at the suspected time of day with her shotgun and ambushed that dog. She explained to me that once a dog got the taste of blood, killing them was the only recourse. She killed the dog and called the neighbor to get the carcass. There were no arguments. The sheriff was not called. The neighbor actually agreed with the necessity.

This I get and is very different than a dog chasing something for me. See below.

Deer don't have the stamina of a dog and therefore cannot the dog's nose. The dogs will push them until they stop running and have no energy left. Like a thoroughbred horse, it won't run fast for long periods.

This is what doesn't work for me. If this was the case (or at least without some sort of qualifying info), the coyotes would decimate the deer population within weeks. They clearly don't. I have a herd of about 16 deer that use my backyard as a daybed on occasion. They come through regularly as do the coyotes (and foxes but thats different). Anyhow, it just seems there is more nuance that needs to be here. At the end of the day however, people should leave their dogs on a leash or contained, as do I despite having a large piece of property. Dogs are not independent enough to leave running around.

It's worse in the winter, particularly with snow like this year. Deer will yard in snow. They can't walk on it. Dogs will hit the yards and either chase deer until they catch them, or just run them to the point of exhaustion. Either way, they typically die.

Dogs have just as much trouble in the snow. I have deer in my backyard daily. They do OK in the snow.

 

[Martlet]

Dogs have just as much trouble in the snow. I have deer in my backyard daily. They do OK in the snow.

Absolutely untrue, with most breeds. Most deer weigh more and have hooves. Dogs typically weigh much less, and don't sink to the ground in anything but powdery snow. They can often run on the first or second crust, which makes them considerably faster than deer.

In most cases, a dog can run down a deer in snow, or at least run it to exhaustion.

I'm a little surprised someone would make such a claim, since anyone who has spent any time hunting deer, coyotes or with dogs knows this.

 

[terraformer]

Absolutely untrue, with most breeds. Most deer weigh more and have hooves. Dogs typically weigh much less, and don't sink to the ground in anything but powdery snow. They can often run on the first or second crust, which makes them considerably faster than deer.

In most cases, a dog can run down a deer in snow, or at least run it to exhaustion.

I'm a little surprised someone would make such a claim, since anyone who has spent any time hunting deer, coyotes or with dogs knows this.

Well, on the occasion where there is a crust that's different, but then that's not snow.

 

[Gibbs]

Norweigian Elkhounds are like that as well. When mine would get out I'd run her dead tired with my jeep, give her some water, toss her in the back and drive home.

Smart!

I woulda done that with that huskie, but she immediately went "off-roading."

 

[Martlet]

Well, on the occasion where there is a crust that's different, but then that's not snow.

First, crust makes no difference. Dogs have paws and run yards better than deer. Have you ever seen a deer yard? Second, There are typically multiple layers of crust in the woods.

 

[MichaelJR]

Town police shoot another dog.

That's what really happened

 

[terraformer]

First, crust makes no difference. Dogs have paws and run yards better than deer. Have you ever seen a deer yard? Second, There are typically multiple layers of crust in the woods.

Here's the herd who yards in my back yard.



There's 16 of them. Its from a few weeks ago.

 

[Martlet]

Here's the herd who yards in my back yard.

View attachment 16383

There's 16 of them. Its from a few weeks ago.

Nice picture. That's not a deer yard, though.

I rest my case.

 

[terraformer]

Nice picture. That's not a deer yard, though.

I rest my case.

So they sleep in my yard daily, have tracks through the snow going multiple directions and it is in a stand of softwood and that's not a yard? OK, define yard then.

 

[Martlet]

So they sleep in my yard daily, have tracks through the snow going multiple directions and it is in a stand of softwood and that's not a yard? OK, define yard then.

It's a wildlands wintering space, but urban settings aren't counted when determining deer yard density. They are artificial, and contain deer not necessarily because of preferred conditions, but necessity and availability.

Regardless, let's use your example. Dogs and 'yotes travel through snow MUCH easier than deer, crust or no crust. Their pads are wider, often webbed, and they are lighter. Just looking at them tells you this. Less body weight supported by more surface area.

The picture you took shows a very small food or shelter growth, from what can be seen. As a yard that would poorly supply either, though I can't see but a small portion. An area shot and population density would make it easier to tell if deer have chosen to yard there, or if they really have no choice. Either way, it doesn't change the point of the original discussion which is dogs kill deer.

 

[garandman]

That's reported incidents, I'm sure you'd find the real rate much different, where those crappy little purse dogs are the worst, and then goldens next, due to population.

Yup, that's why I said "Citation needed." So the citation is your opinion?

 

[hikerlt]

The original quote from the article :
"her owner, Edward Abbott of West Pine Street in South Lee, and made her way to a farm owned by Jeff LePrevost more than a mile away on Stockbridge Road."

makes me question :
1) Why did the owner go that far away to the Farm...what made them think to go there ?...and not the other way around, the farmer going to the Owner....??

Maybe, just maybe...it was because this was NOT the first time this Dog has made it's way to the farm, and caused trouble or bothered/attacked the livestock ? Maybe there were previous incidents and warnings......that finally were followed thru on.

We had a house in the rural central Mass area , across the street from a Farm. The Farmer constantly had problems of coyotes and neighborhood Dogs killing his Pigs and Sheep. Saw him one day and he stopped and mentioned "Remember the Black Dog from down the Street at your neighbors ( it WAS a nasty ill tempered dog they let just roam loose)...Well, ya won't be seeing THAT dog around anymore...we took care of it.."