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MA legal CMP compliant AR?

Matt-CZ

Matt-CZ

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I'm getting more interested in CMP type shooting events and would one day like to add an AR to my collection for this purpose. I would like to build a A4 style rifle that is MA legal. Assuming I bought a fixed mag lower that seem to be out there these days, what should I be looking for in an upper that keeps it MA legal.

What I am thinking:

GI solid body stock
20" GI profile barrel with front sight on gas block, (CMP legal twist rate?)
Detachable carry handle rear sight.
a4 style front hand guard

Am i correct that a bayonet lug and some types of flash hiders would make the rifle not MA legal? I would prefer to have something on the end of the barrel, but it's not critical. Does having a fixed mag make it not an assault weapon, or are bayonet lugs and threaded barrels still off the menu?

Would it be as simple as buying a MA legal fixed mag lower and buying a compliant upper and slapping them together? Or am I missing something?
 
Short answer: unpossible
Longer answer: find yourself someone selling a pre 072016 rifle and build it to original MA AWB, or a true pre '94 and say f*** you while paying a premium
 
DarthRevan said:
Short answer: unpossible
Longer answer: find yourself someone selling a pre 072016 rifle and build it to original MA AWB, or a true pre '94 and say f*** you while paying a premium
Click to expand...

That was my original impression too, but I see a few shops, including on this forum , listing new whole rifle made from fixed mag lowers. These rifles seem very nice, but are a more modern style than I'm looking for. What's the deal with these guys?

Buying a pre-7/20 might be the way to go, but I'm seeing these fixed mag rifles going for <$1000 which is pretty attractive (for MA)
 
IDK if those fixed mag ones are okay for CMP.
But if you want to see one of these in person Northeast Arms has been selling a couple of them so far.
 
the fixed nag option will make the mag change on rapids a no go. Again as noted if these fixed mag ARs with that Mean Arms loader will be legal?

Also consider which "CMP" matches you want to play in.
service rifle or ECI matches have different rules vs the cmp games Modern Military matches
 
Like mac said, rapid fire stages require a mag change... tough to do with a fixed mag! Either buy a pre 7/20 AR, or consider a Garand or M14-type rifle.
 
The tough part in MA will be finding a lower. You can go real pre 94 ban, or pre-healy-ban or mill one from leftover soda cans.

As mentioned, fixed mag won't work.

Plenty of options available for "post ban" competition uppers. Pre 94 ban receiver will allow you to use an A2 FH. Post 94 ban no FH. Do not, I repeat, do not, install a comp or brake on your upper. PM for more info.
 
Optic up to 4.5X is legal for both Modern Military and EIC. Irons good too of course. Technically you should use the 20” GI profile barrel by I hear people are using heavier 16” and can still make weight. USGI flash hider only ok if pre 94 ban. Otherwise use a thread protector. Handguard must be attached via delta ring- free float against rules.

Criterion makes a great barrel for this. Use a pre 7/20 lower.

Mine is kinda fugly but will shoot a clean stage:

NtQMIhX
 
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I don't by what means this is achievable, but the 2017 rule changes state:

"The new Highpower Alternative Rifle will allow competitors in states where the ownership or possession of M16/AR-type rifles is prohibited to use a rifle that has the same capabilities as an M16/AR-type rifle. Alternative Rifles may be either semi-auto or manually operated and must be chambered for the 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge (.223). Optical sights with a manufactured maximum of 4.5X are permitted. These rifles must have a 4.5-pound trigger pull, a maximum barrel length of 20 inches and a fixed sling swivel on their fore-ends. Alternative Rifles may have stocks with the same adjustment capabilities as Service Rifles, that is butt-stock length may be adjustable, but the cheek-piece and butt-plate must be fixed. Stock design and magazine configuration is flexible according to what is permitted in the competitor’s state."

From: 2017 CMP COMPETITION RULES RELEASED - Civilian Marksmanship Program

Not that I'd want to go that route and I'm lucky enough not to have to, but I've wondered if there's any alternative that can be even somewhat accurate. Again, not advocating it, it'd probably be easier to find a pre-7/20 lower, but I wondered what the CMP had in mind when they came up with this rule.
 
rogues said:
I don't by what means this is achievable, but the 2017 rule changes state:

"The new Highpower Alternative Rifle will allow competitors in states where the ownership or possession of M16/AR-type rifles is prohibited to use a rifle that has the same capabilities as an M16/AR-type rifle. Alternative Rifles may be either semi-auto or manually operated and must be chambered for the 5.56 x 45mm NATO cartridge (.223). Optical sights with a manufactured maximum of 4.5X are permitted. These rifles must have a 4.5-pound trigger pull, a maximum barrel length of 20 inches and a fixed sling swivel on their fore-ends. Alternative Rifles may have stocks with the same adjustment capabilities as Service Rifles, that is butt-stock length may be adjustable, but the cheek-piece and butt-plate must be fixed. Stock design and magazine configuration is flexible according to what is permitted in the competitor’s state."

From: 2017 CMP COMPETITION RULES RELEASED - Civilian Marksmanship Program

Not that I'd want to go that route and I'm lucky enough not to have to, but I've wondered if there's any alternative that can be even somewhat accurate. Again, not advocating it, it'd probably be easier to find a pre-7/20 lower, but I wondered what the CMP had in mind when they came up with this rule.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you could just run a bolt action, so that would be presumably as accurate, if not more, than an AR. Shooting something like a mini or a SU-16 may be a different story, but there must be plenty of manually operated MA legal rifles that could easily compete with the best. Sucks that this means moving away from a traditional "service" rifle match.

Seems like sticking with the spirit of the CMP matches would to use a MA legal AR, say a cripple mag. Using the ban as an excuse to get some super accurate bolt gun seems like taking advantage of a bad situation.
 
The pump action ARs might be an option. Not sure how accurate they tend to be. A bolt action would work fine, except the rapids would be a little more difficult. But the people with the Springfield 03s manage to do it with stripper clips, so its possible.
 
A good bolt rifle (hint: it's not an o3A3) can win any highpower match ( where legal) against an AR.
But, it's got to be run by somebody who really knows what they're doing.
 
PatMcD said:
A good bolt rifle (hint: it's not an o3A3) can win any highpower match ( where legal) against an AR.
But, it's got to be run by somebody who really knows what they're doing.
Click to expand...
1903? What other bolt gun is rules compliant?
 
mac1911 said:
also need to keep cmp games and "service rifle" and EIC in mind for the differences.
Click to expand...

Please excuse my newbness. So far I understand that to work towards the CMP Distinguished Rifleman badge I need a M1, M1a, or an AR15. To earn leg points, I would need to place within the top 10%. Now, is that top 10% per weapon type or 10% of all competitors there using any of the approved weapons?
 
Obi2winky said:
Please excuse my newbness. So far I understand that to work towards the CMP Distinguished Rifleman badge I need a M1, M1a, or an AR15. To earn leg points, I would need to place within the top 10%. Now, is that top 10% per weapon type or 10% of all competitors there using any of the approved weapons?
Click to expand...
Top 10% of all NON-Distinguished shooters who are eligible. Doesn't matter which rule-compliant rifle they use.
 
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I just recently procured an AR-15, replaced the upper with one from White Oak Armory with the optical mount and, I think, 20" rachet barrel in the 'post-ban' configuration (no threads), put on a cheap A2 stock. I have a detachable carry handle if I want to use metallic sights, but, if I understand it correctly, I can use optics in both CMP and NRA highpower with a max of 4.5x (which I just bought, haven't sighted in), which is what I intend to do.

I'm kind of excited to start out sucking at yet another new gunsport. Best of luck to you.

I just noticed that my sig p320 is an approved cmp service pistol, which makes me happy.
 
Obi2winky said:
Please excuse my newbness. So far I understand that to work towards the CMP Distinguished Rifleman badge I need a M1, M1a, or an AR15. To earn leg points, I would need to place within the top 10%. Now, is that top 10% per weapon type or 10% of all competitors there using any of the approved weapons?
Click to expand...
Also the "leg" points are only issued in certain types of matches. For example as far as i know there are no leg points to be had for JCG as issued matches or any of the CMP games ?
I could be wrong
 
mac1911 said:
Also the "leg" points are only issued in certain types of matches. For example as far as i know there are no leg points to be had for JCG as issued matches or any of the CMP games ?
I could be wrong
Click to expand...
It specifically has to be an EIC Match. The Games Matches (Garand, Springfield, carbine, vintage sniper, etc) are not EIC Matches. EIC's are usually held in conjunction with any large state or regional matches. Wherever the CMP Games matches are held, they usually have an EIC during that weekend somewhere.
 
PatMcD said:
It specifically has to be an EIC Match. The Games Matches (Garand, Springfield, carbine, vintage sniper, etc) are not EIC Matches. EIC's are usually held in conjunction with any large state or regional matches. Wherever the CMP Games matches are held, they usually have an EIC during that weekend somewhere.
Click to expand...
correct. Im not aware if there is any limitations on rifles you can shoot in the EIC matches? Can one use say a vintage swede sniper rifle?

There are many different matches along with some unclear and ever changing rules. The OP just needs to be careful and try to buy the rifle that will be able to shoot in what matches he thinks he will be shooting. Or do what many end up doing , buying several rifles to fill the needs of the particular match you might be going to.
 
mac1911 said:
correct. Im not aware if there is any limitations on rifles you can shoot in the EIC matches? Can one use say a vintage swede sniper rifle?

There are many different matches along with some unclear and ever changing rules. The OP just needs to be careful and try to buy the rifle that will be able to shoot in what matches he thinks he will be shooting. Or do what many end up doing , buying several rifles to fill the needs of the particular match you might be going to.
Click to expand...
EIC matches are shot only with CMP Service Rifle- compliant rifles, which are: AR15, M14-types, and the M1 Garand. There are strict rules which dictate how these rifles are configured. A CMP rulebook should be consulted.
There are limited other matches where EIC points can be obtained (M16 match and maybe a few others) but they only take place at Camp Perry or maybe one of the traveling Games matches.
 
There other caveat is you can only shoot 5 leg matches a year, and another if you go to Perry.

Eligibility Restrictions. Non-Distinguished competitors are restricted to five EIC matches per year plus the National Trophy Individual Match at Camp Perry and any special 4-point “introductory EIC matches” such as the M16/M9 EIC matches conducted as part of the Small Arms Firing Schools.

There is a leg match coming up in Nashua next weekend, and another at Reading the following sunday.
 
PatMcD said:
EIC matches are shot only with CMP Service Rifle- compliant rifles, which are: AR15, M14-types, and the M1 Garand. There are strict rules which dictate how these rifles are configured. A CMP rulebook should be consulted.
There are limited other matches where EIC points can be obtained (M16 match and maybe a few others) but they only take place at Camp Perry or maybe one of the traveling Games matches.
Click to expand...
yes there are plenty of rules and regulations so knowing what your going to want to shoot is key to your purchase
 

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