Hey Team,
I have been working up in Maine for the past four years and I have developed a pretty good relationship with many LEO in the Center Maine region (When you get pulled over as many times as I do for DWB in Maine and can have the LEO laughing I guess it builds friendships![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
).
So I was talking to a few off-duty officers about different stuff including some of the incident in NH (the patron rescuing the bouncer at bar) and I asked what would happen if that happened in Maine. As you might imagine I got a split desicion. One officer stated
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/17-A/title17-Asec108.html
2. A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person:
A. When the person reasonably believes it necessary and reasonably believes such other person is:
(1) About to use unlawful, deadly force against the person or a 3rd person; or
(2) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping, robbery or a violation of section 253, subsection 1, paragraph A, against the person or a 3rd person; or
[1989, c. 878, Pt. B, §15 (amd).]
B. When he reasonably believes:
(1) That such other person has entered or is attempting to enter a dwelling place or has surreptitiously remained within a dwelling place without a license or privilege to do so; and
(2) That deadly force is necessary to prevent the infliction of bodily injury by such other person upon himself or a 3rd person present in the dwelling place;
[1975, c. 740, §34 (rpr).]
C. However, a person is not justified in using deadly force as provided in paragraph A, if:
(1) With the intent to cause physical harm to another, he provokes such other person to use unlawful deadly force against anyone; or
(2) He knows that the person against whom the unlawful deadly force is directed intentionally and unlawfully provoked the use of such force; or
(3) He knows that he or a 3rd person can, with complete safety
(a) retreat from the encounter, except that he or the 3rd person is not required to retreat if he or the 3rd person is in his dwelling place and was not the initial aggressor; or
(b) surrender property to a person asserting a colorable claim of right thereto; or
(c) comply with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform.
Which in my understanding (Being and Engineer not a lawyer ) meant that the patron was justified but another officer stated another law that he said makes it illegal to have a CCW in a bar he rattled this one
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/17-a/title17-asec1057.html
1. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm if:
A. Not being a law enforcement officer or a private investigator licensed under Title 32, chapter 89 and actually performing as a private investigator, the person possesses any firearm on the premises of a licensed establishment posted to prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of patrons, in violation of the posted prohibition or restriction; or [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
B. While under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or a combination of liquor and drugs or with an excessive blood-alcohol level, the person possesses a firearm in a licensed establishment. [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
2. For the purposes of this section, "licensed establishment" means a licensed establishment as defined by Title 28-A, section 2, subsection 15, the license for which is held by an on-premise retail licensee, as defined by Title 28-A, section 2, subsection 27, paragraph B. For the purposes of this section, "premises" has the same meaning as set forth in Title 28-A, section 2, subsection 24.[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
3. It is not a defense to a prosecution under subsection 1 that the person holds a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued under Title 25, chapter 252.[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
4. A law enforcement officer who has probable cause to believe that a person has violated subsection 1, paragraph B, may require that person to submit to chemical testing to determine blood-alcohol level or drug concentration. If the court is satisfied that the law enforcement officer had probable cause to believe that the defendant was in violation of subsection 1, paragraph B, and that the person was informed of the requirement to submit to chemical testing, the person's failure to comply with the requirement to submit to chemical testing is admissible evidence on the issue of whether that person was under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs.[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
5. For purposes of this section, "under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or a combination of liquor and drugs or with an excessive blood-alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13. "Excessive blood-alcohol level" means 0.08% or more by weight of alcohol in the blood. Standards, tests and procedures applicable in determining whether a person is under the influence or has an excessive blood-alcohol level within the meaning of this section are those applicable pursuant to Title 29-A, sections 2411 and 2431; except that the suspension of a permit to carry concealed firearms issued pursuant to Title 25, chapter 252, or of the authority of a private investigator licensed to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Title 32, chapter 89, is as provided in those chapters.[1995, c. 65, Pt. A, §57 (amd); §153 (aff); Pt. C, §15 (aff).]
6. Criminal possession of a firearm is a Class D crime. In addition, as part of every judgment of conviction and sentence imposed, the court shall:
A. Revoke any permit to carry a concealed firearm issued to the person so convicted; and [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
B. If the person so convicted is licensed as a private investigator, suspend for a period of 5 years that person's right as a private investigator to carry a concealed firearm. [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
A person convicted of a violation of this section is not eligible to obtain or apply for a permit to carry a concealed firearm for 5 years from the date of that conviction.
[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
I told this officer that (Yes, I was armed with a laptop in a bar) my non-legal mind, that if the Bar doesn't have a posting or informs the customer that possession of a Firearm is prohibited, that simply walking into a bar with a CCW isn't an automatic crime. He of course disagreed and pointed to the 1B) saying that if you drink and have a gun your are in automatic violation, which I answered I thought it meant "drunk" not "one drink". So could I get your guys opinion on the above? If any LEO from Maine would like to answer please feel free. I am curious on how you intrept the law...
Fee
I have been working up in Maine for the past four years and I have developed a pretty good relationship with many LEO in the Center Maine region (When you get pulled over as many times as I do for DWB in Maine and can have the LEO laughing I guess it builds friendships
).So I was talking to a few off-duty officers about different stuff including some of the incident in NH (the patron rescuing the bouncer at bar) and I asked what would happen if that happened in Maine. As you might imagine I got a split desicion. One officer stated
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/17-A/title17-Asec108.html
2. A person is justified in using deadly force upon another person:
A. When the person reasonably believes it necessary and reasonably believes such other person is:
(1) About to use unlawful, deadly force against the person or a 3rd person; or
(2) Committing or about to commit a kidnapping, robbery or a violation of section 253, subsection 1, paragraph A, against the person or a 3rd person; or
[1989, c. 878, Pt. B, §15 (amd).]
B. When he reasonably believes:
(1) That such other person has entered or is attempting to enter a dwelling place or has surreptitiously remained within a dwelling place without a license or privilege to do so; and
(2) That deadly force is necessary to prevent the infliction of bodily injury by such other person upon himself or a 3rd person present in the dwelling place;
[1975, c. 740, §34 (rpr).]
C. However, a person is not justified in using deadly force as provided in paragraph A, if:
(1) With the intent to cause physical harm to another, he provokes such other person to use unlawful deadly force against anyone; or
(2) He knows that the person against whom the unlawful deadly force is directed intentionally and unlawfully provoked the use of such force; or
(3) He knows that he or a 3rd person can, with complete safety
(a) retreat from the encounter, except that he or the 3rd person is not required to retreat if he or the 3rd person is in his dwelling place and was not the initial aggressor; or
(b) surrender property to a person asserting a colorable claim of right thereto; or
(c) comply with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform.
Which in my understanding (Being and Engineer not a lawyer ) meant that the patron was justified but another officer stated another law that he said makes it illegal to have a CCW in a bar he rattled this one
http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/17-a/title17-asec1057.html
1. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a firearm if:
A. Not being a law enforcement officer or a private investigator licensed under Title 32, chapter 89 and actually performing as a private investigator, the person possesses any firearm on the premises of a licensed establishment posted to prohibit or restrict the possession of firearms in a manner reasonably likely to come to the attention of patrons, in violation of the posted prohibition or restriction; or [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
B. While under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or a combination of liquor and drugs or with an excessive blood-alcohol level, the person possesses a firearm in a licensed establishment. [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
2. For the purposes of this section, "licensed establishment" means a licensed establishment as defined by Title 28-A, section 2, subsection 15, the license for which is held by an on-premise retail licensee, as defined by Title 28-A, section 2, subsection 27, paragraph B. For the purposes of this section, "premises" has the same meaning as set forth in Title 28-A, section 2, subsection 24.[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
3. It is not a defense to a prosecution under subsection 1 that the person holds a permit to carry a concealed firearm issued under Title 25, chapter 252.[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
4. A law enforcement officer who has probable cause to believe that a person has violated subsection 1, paragraph B, may require that person to submit to chemical testing to determine blood-alcohol level or drug concentration. If the court is satisfied that the law enforcement officer had probable cause to believe that the defendant was in violation of subsection 1, paragraph B, and that the person was informed of the requirement to submit to chemical testing, the person's failure to comply with the requirement to submit to chemical testing is admissible evidence on the issue of whether that person was under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs.[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
5. For purposes of this section, "under the influence of intoxicating liquor or drugs or a combination of liquor and drugs or with an excessive blood-alcohol level" has the same meaning as "under the influence of intoxicants" as defined in Title 29-A, section 2401, subsection 13. "Excessive blood-alcohol level" means 0.08% or more by weight of alcohol in the blood. Standards, tests and procedures applicable in determining whether a person is under the influence or has an excessive blood-alcohol level within the meaning of this section are those applicable pursuant to Title 29-A, sections 2411 and 2431; except that the suspension of a permit to carry concealed firearms issued pursuant to Title 25, chapter 252, or of the authority of a private investigator licensed to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Title 32, chapter 89, is as provided in those chapters.[1995, c. 65, Pt. A, §57 (amd); §153 (aff); Pt. C, §15 (aff).]
6. Criminal possession of a firearm is a Class D crime. In addition, as part of every judgment of conviction and sentence imposed, the court shall:
A. Revoke any permit to carry a concealed firearm issued to the person so convicted; and [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
B. If the person so convicted is licensed as a private investigator, suspend for a period of 5 years that person's right as a private investigator to carry a concealed firearm. [1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
A person convicted of a violation of this section is not eligible to obtain or apply for a permit to carry a concealed firearm for 5 years from the date of that conviction.
[1989, c. 917, §2 (new).]
I told this officer that (Yes, I was armed with a laptop in a bar) my non-legal mind, that if the Bar doesn't have a posting or informs the customer that possession of a Firearm is prohibited, that simply walking into a bar with a CCW isn't an automatic crime. He of course disagreed and pointed to the 1B) saying that if you drink and have a gun your are in automatic violation, which I answered I thought it meant "drunk" not "one drink". So could I get your guys opinion on the above? If any LEO from Maine would like to answer please feel free. I am curious on how you intrept the law...
Fee
