Man gets gun permit back after it was revoked for carrying it while voting

[Scully714]

Good to see judges following the law, at least in Pennsylvania...

http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=182862&format=html

CHAMBERSBURG, Pa. - Franklin County Judge John R. Walker followed the law Tuesday in returning a concealed weapons permit to Gregory Rotz, but the judge said he would prefer the state ban firearms from polling places.

"Personally, I'm going to contact my legislator and see if they can write a law because, if you have people walking around voting places with firearms, you are beginning to look like a Third World country down in Venezuela or somewhere," the judge said after ordering the return to Rotz of the permit, which had been revoked by former Sheriff Robert Wollyung.

During a brief hearing, Walker ruled Rotz violated no law and should have his permit returned.

"Give it to him now, Mr. Redding," Walker told Patrick Redding, the solicitor for the Sheriff's Office.

Many of the approximately 50 people in the courtroom, mostly Second Amendment rights supporters, applauded as Redding handed the permit to Rotz's attorney, Steve Rice. A number of the spectators came armed and checked their handguns with sheriff's deputies before entering the courthouse.

Approximately 6,000 people have concealed weapons permits in Franklin County, according to the Sheriff's Office. A permit is needed in Pennsylvania to carry a concealed weapon, but not to carry one openly, said Sheriff Dane Anthony, who was on his second day on the job.

Carrying a weapon in a vehicle is considered concealing it, which is one reason many people get the permits, Anthony said.

Wollyung ordered the permit revoked after Rotz, 36, showed up at the New Franklin Community Center to vote in the Nov. 6 election, although Rotz was never charged with violating any law.

"I went to the polling place to vote, and I had my firearm with me as I do everyday," Rotz said after winning his appeal. A constable at the center confronted him and delayed his voting until county officials told the constable "that it was not illegal for me to take my firearm into the polling place," Rotz said.

"He had it in plain view, the people that were at the polls were scared ... I asked him to step outside," said Constable Gerald Spielman, who was at the courthouse Tuesday. "I asked him to step outside and I checked with the courthouse," Spielman said.

"I had no choice but to let him go into vote" once he learned there was no law forbidding firearms in a polling place.

Rotz said the Friday after the election, he received the first of two letters, as required by law, notifying him of the revocation.

The hearing attracted people from across Pennsylvania and at least one from Virginia who came to support Rotz. The Sheriff's Office said 15 handguns were handed over to deputies, with the owners ejecting clips and emptying cylinders.

"I don't believe in open carry. I think it's a tactical disadvantage" to allow others to know you are armed, said Douglas Boldt of Erie, Pa., vice president of the 6,000-member Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association. Despite that difference in philosophy, Boldt said Wollyung had no right to revoke the permit.

"He has a God-given right to protect himself," said Boldt, who left his Heckler & Koch P7M8 in his vehicle.


"I support Mr. Greg Rotz. Enforce the law, not personal opinion" read the badges of many of those who attended. There were men from Pittsburgh, McKees Rocks, Johnstown, McDonald, Boiling Springs and Newville, Pa., as well as Mike Stollenwerk from Virginia, co-founder of OpenCarry.Org, a national Second Amendment rights organization.


If a person can lose a concealed weapon permit without having broken a law, he said, "then we've got a problem."


A number of state and borough police officers were in the courtroom, some not in uniform, though it was unclear whether they were attending as citizens or to bolster security. There were four or five deputies at a time in the courtroom.


"I would like to sincerely commend Mr. Rotz's supporters for their professionalism and cooperation with my office," Anthony said. A device called an unloading station was set up outside the building and the weapons were checked in at a table outside Anthony's office. The supporters then re-entered the building through another entrance to go through the metal detector.


Rotz's supporters headed off to a restaurant after the ruling, but Boldt suggested they also go to a local range.


"Who wants to go shooting?" he said.

 

[Admin]

"He had it in plain view, the people that were at the polls were scared ... I asked him to step outside," said Constable Gerald Spielman, who was at the courthouse Tuesday. "I asked him to step outside and I checked with the courthouse," Spielman said.

WTF is a Constable doing this for? Wanna be cop.

 

[Martlet]

"Personally, I'm going to contact my legislator and see if they can write a law because, if you have people walking around voting places with firearms, you are beginning to look like a Third World country down in Venezuela or somewhere," the judge said after ordering the return to Rotz of the permit, which had been revoked by former Sheriff Robert Wollyung.

Or a group of free citizens protecting their right to cast a ballot.

 

[Admin]

Any guess as to that Judges political affiliation?

 

[mark056]

Derek,

Constables down there are LEOs. I even met one at a DHS Conference and according to him they are elected officials and serve a six year term. By law they are considered peace officers once they have completed state mandated training and serve as the law enforcement arm of the courts. It would not be inappropriate for one to be providing security at a polling place. Unlike constables in other states, they are empowered to enforce criminal as well as civil laws. In this particular case the constable in question was enforcing no law.

Mark L.

 

[Admin]

Oh I see. Only the constables in MA are paper pushers.

Thanks for the info Mark.

 

[ArmedMainer]

Any guess as to that Judges political affiliation?

I wish it was only the "Left" we had to worry about. Who would've thought 10-15 years ago that today all or most of the Republican front runners running for POTUS were gun grabbing POS? IMHO Bush Sr. took the wind out of "the Left are the ones who want our guns" argument back in the late 80's. Both parties are now guilty of having elitist that think the subjects shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

 

[Garys]

"If a person can lose a concealed weapon permit without having broken a law", he said, "then we've got a problem."

Massachusetts, we have a problem!

As to Constables, what they do and what powers they have vary pretty widely across the country. In Texas, it varies by county.

Gary

 

[HOPHEAD]

What is more American than voting while carrying a gun?

 

[FITH]

Oh I see. Only the constables in MA are paper pushers.

Thanks for the info Mark.

Actually They have the power to arrest in Ma!

 

[MaverickNH]

I don't believe in open carry. I think it's a tactical disadvantage" to allow others to know you are armed, said Douglas Boldt of Erie, Pa., vice president of the 6,000-member Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association.

While I too prefer concealed carry for tactical reasons, I always hate it when an officer of a pro-gun organization get quoted in the press criticizing open carry, if not the person who was harrassed for carrying open. Those quotes always come back to haunt us when taken out of context by the anti-gun crowd.

 

[strangenh]

What is more American than voting while carrying a gun?

Stuffing a Chicago ballot box while banning guns?

Glad the judge at least upheld the rule of law. In many states the issue of carrying at a polling place can get complicated; for example when the polling place is a school.

 

[Admin]

What is more American than voting while carrying a gun?

I would have last night but I voted at a school. [sad2]

 

[Admin]

Actually They have the power to arrest in Ma!

So if I get in to a bar fight a Constable can arrest me?

 

[N.E. CHARTERS]

I think the Saloons say no Guns and Boose while voting

Most Voting around here is done in Public Schools where you should not bring a gun anyway. Because... They Said So....


And the Saloons dont serve Booze

are you Voteing for OBAMA Sober?

 

[Jaxon]

WTF is a Constable doing this for? Wanna be cop.

Constables have police authority in most states. The polling place may have been in a Township where Constables are the police authority. I was a Police Constable in Ohio.

So if I get in to a bar fight a Constable can arrest me?

MA is one of the few states that the position isn't quite the same. But yeah, they could arrest you. The authority to issue traffic citations isn't given to Constables. I have been one here as well.

 

[dwarven1]

"He had it in plain view, the people that were at the polls were scared ... I asked him to step outside," said Constable Gerald Spielman, who was at the courthouse Tuesday. "I asked him to step outside and I checked with the courthouse," Spielman said.

 

[Admin]

 

[Admin]

MA is one of the few states that the position isn't quite the same. But yeah, they could arrest you. The authority to issue traffic citations isn't given to Constables. I have been one here as well.

That would be a very bad day for the constable.

 

[vellnueve]

Where's LenS?

 

[icyclefar]

A number of the spectators came armed and checked their handguns with sheriff's deputies before entering the courthouse.

Now that would have been fun to watch.

 

[RKG]

WTF is a Constable doing this for? Wanna be cop.

In many jurisdictions, a constable is a full-fledged police officer.

 

[Jaxon]

That would be a very bad day for the constable.

Probably.