I called S&W this week to find out when this gun is coming out. They said that they submitted it for approval, but does anyone here know when it will be available to Mass residents? I am trying to sell my glock 26 now and upgrade it to a m&p compact, so if it's gonna be a long time for the .45 i'll just go with the .40. Thanks.
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Mass compliant S&W M&P45C?
- Thread starter corivers
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Nobody here will have a better idea than S&W, but the way things are currently set up, it must be published in a major newspaper (done every 3 months or so) as part of the EOPS List prior to being salable in MA.
Prior to that it has to be tested, submitted to GCAB, GCAB recommends inclusion to the Secretary of Public Safety . . . who gets to agree/disagree or sit on it for however long he wishes, wait for the next EOPS List publication and then S&W must certify that it meets the AG's fuzzy regulations before it can be sold in MA.
Prior to that it has to be tested, submitted to GCAB, GCAB recommends inclusion to the Secretary of Public Safety . . . who gets to agree/disagree or sit on it for however long he wishes, wait for the next EOPS List publication and then S&W must certify that it meets the AG's fuzzy regulations before it can be sold in MA.
I am a big S&W fan; love the guns and their service, BUT I am a little fed up with the way they treat the residents of their home state. It should not be that difficult for them to get their guns OK'd for sale in MA, particularly when we are speaking of variants of models already certified for sale.
The 45 compact is basically the same gun as the full sized 45; what is the problem? I desperately want to get my hands on an M&P 9L and even begged S&W to sell me a bare slide, to no avail. Again, the 9L is the same gun as the standard M&P 9mm; what's the big deal? I think it is time for some letters of complaint to S&W, I have already sent mine.
The 45 compact is basically the same gun as the full sized 45; what is the problem? I desperately want to get my hands on an M&P 9L and even begged S&W to sell me a bare slide, to no avail. Again, the 9L is the same gun as the standard M&P 9mm; what's the big deal? I think it is time for some letters of complaint to S&W, I have already sent mine.
They have to submit multiple guns for testing $$. They have to create/maintain an additional model (9L with a shi**y trigger) $$. Then they have to hope that enough people buy them to make this effort worth it. Considering S&W has a huge backlog $177 Million according to this article I don't see them doing this anytime soon. The 9L/9Pro are models with a limited market. Personally I'd LOVE to get one too but I'm not holding my breath.
J
Jose
They have ZERO control over the approval process. To blame S&W for whatever model not yet being Mass approved is retarded.
That's not entirely true. They have to submit firearms for testing. What Gammon is referring to is the long slide version of the 9mm M&P. As far as I know they haven't submitted it for testing, probably a business decision.
J
Jose
They are still not to blame.
Agreed, If you read my previous post I think it's a business decision on their part.
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Any guns specifically designed with a custom (or decent) trigger as a selling point can NOT be MA approved under today's rules. The "required terrible trigger" (AG Regs in most cases demand 10#) makes those a non-marketable product and thus a waste of time to attempt approval for MA.
Other than that issue, the mfr does indeed have a lot of control on whether or not they get approval. The required testing and approved labs are almost identical to those for CA approval, so the marginal difference in cost isn't terribly significant (it can be done at the same time/place as CA testing). [Note: I have a background in getting approvals, designing/building and managing a test lab, so I have a clue about what I stated above.]
Other than that issue, the mfr does indeed have a lot of control on whether or not they get approval. The required testing and approved labs are almost identical to those for CA approval, so the marginal difference in cost isn't terribly significant (it can be done at the same time/place as CA testing). [Note: I have a background in getting approvals, designing/building and managing a test lab, so I have a clue about what I stated above.]
Of course they are to blame. They have decided not to offer certain pistols for sale in MA, their home state. My suggestion is that MA residents express their disapproval; this will also serve to let S&W know that there is a market for these pistols. You will note that I did not refer to the M&P 9L Pro model as the trigger work on such a gun will not pass MA testing. We must be resigned to bad triggers that need the attention of a gunsmith.
PS If I'm not mistaken, the only change needed to make the M&P 45C and the M&P 9L MA compliant is the trigger return spring, an easily replaceable $2.75 part. The M&P series of pistols is Four Seasons biggest selling item. Surely there is a market for these new additions that would make it a wise business decision for S&W to make them available to us.
Submitting pistols for testing has become part of day to day business for firearm manufacturers. S&W could easily qualify these guns for sale in MA and, most likely, profit from this endeavor.
Directing my "anger" at those who deserve it will not solve the problem. I can only do my part and vote them out of office, which I intend to do. Like it or not, we live in a state (MA) with some very restrictive gun laws. I do not think that asking a manufacturer based in this state to offer guns that comply with these regulations is out of order or "whiny".
J
Jose
In all of TWO states.
Your state's market is insignificant compared to California and the other 48. S&W could probably stop selling handguns in Massachusetts tomorrow and not see an appreciable drop in revenue that could be made up elsewhere.
I do think S&W should sell Mass PDs the same crap the AG forces on you all.
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I agree here up to a point.
- The MA gun market doesn't amount to a spit in the bucket . . . especially compared to CA.
- The fact that CA requires testing actuallly works in MA's favor. Most of the tests are the same, most of the approved CA labs are also MA approved labs. The marginal cost difference between doing CA-only testing and combo MA & CA testing (IFF done at the same time) is insignificant.
- Therefore it is most efficient for a mfr to test for both states and submit at the same time.
- The only thing that stops them from doing so is the "fuzzy AG Regs" where they can never get a clear "OK" from the AG. Thus, they don't want to risk selling in MA and fail to submit to MA for approval. Only a few mfrs submit guns to MA because they want the LEO market (AG Regs-exempt), but have written off the civilian market in MA.
- If MA were ever to get an AG who would "OK" the guns and give clear guidance on what meets the Regs, many of the guns approved for CA would magically be salable in MA!
