Mass safe storage law

[Rob Boudrie]

If the goal is compliance with the law, the crappy locks are sufficient. If the goal is preventing theft, they aren't.

Crappy locks can be better if the goal is only compliance. I saw one case where a competitor at a match forgot his trigger lock keys and was fortunately able to get the lock off due to its crappiness.

 

[MisterHappy]

If the goal is compliance with the law, the crappy locks are sufficient. If the goal is preventing theft, they aren't.

It's a "Safe Storage" law, not a "Prevent Theft" law.

 

[Devils Paintbrush]

Crappy locks can be better if the goal is only compliance. I saw one case where a competitor at a match forgot his trigger lock keys and was fortunately able to get the lock off due to its crappiness.

Agree, they are notoriously weak security. Only purpose is to keep "the man" at bay. They will only stop the most challenged individuals.

Trigger lock defeat

There are videos like this everywhere.

 

[PappyM3]

I used to think a big heavy safe was the way to go. But I just buy the cheaper 150 dollar ones and bolt them in real good.

Main reason.....if you have to move...the safe is a bxtch to move, and those small 6 gun steel cabinets are easy to put places as well, like a closet or something.

And then it’s six separate containers that a thief would have to break into. I’m thinking this way too… now

 

[AHM]

... preban >10 round mags need to be kept away from unlicensed people need to keep their hot little hands off of preban > 10 round mags ...

FTFY.

 

[CrackPot]

Meanwhile, I've heard guidance that an otherwise large cap rifle (e.g., mini-14) is treated as not, if you only have 10 rounders (making it ok on an FID). Would that apply to a Glock pistol on an LTC-B?

The GCAB (MA gun control advisory board) publishes a list of what is considered "high capacity and, while not enshrined in law, has the effect as it it were.

If you consider the CMRs to have the effect of law, then it is in fact covered.

MGL 140 131 1/4 defines the roster and gives the secretary of public safety the ability to promulgate regulations for this section and a whole bunch of other sections of chapter 140.

501 CMR 7.2 covers this by defining "Capable of Accepting a Large Capacity Feeding Device". You might think that is a phrase in English but you would be wrong. It is now a defined term.

"Capable of Accepting a Large Capacity Feeding Device means any firearm, rifle or shotgun in which a large capacity feeding device, as defined by M.G.L. c. 140, § 121, is capable of being used without alteration of the weapon; provided, however, that said feeding device is fully or partially inserted into the weapon or attached thereto, or is under the direct control of a person who also has direct control of a weapon capable of accepting said feeding device."

So if the gun is NOT on the list and you do not possess a large capacity magazine for it or have one partially or completely inserted, the gun is not a large capacity weapon. Yes, this is mind numbingly stupid but has the effect of making FID holders able to possess Mini-14s, 10/22s, etc.

You will need to find a FFL who understands this if you are a FID holder and want to get certain guns from a FFL. Most will just say no because its semi-auto with a detachable magazine since that is what MGL 140 121 defines as a Large Capacity Weapon (before 501CMR7.02 redefines common english language)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yes, this is mind numbingly stupid.

Like having the term "firearm" refer only to a handgun or SBR, but not allowing possession of such a "firearm" to one who has a "Firearms Identification Card" but no NTC.

Or banning Zoobows.

 

[Realtor MA]

PSA - these work great for transport. Bell QuickZip Zip-Tie Multi-Purpose Combo Lock 2 Pack Red/Black, One Size Amazon product ASIN B082TGBTWRView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082TGBTWR/ref=cm_sw_r_apanp_dDblHwFQDugpw

 

[Keeper]

PSA - these work great for transport. Bell QuickZip Zip-Tie Multi-Purpose Combo Lock 2 Pack Red/Black, One Size Amazon product ASIN B082TGBTWRView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B082TGBTWR/ref=cm_sw_r_apanp_dDblHwFQDugpw

In what way?

 

[looser38]

In what way?

Such as:

 

[Keeper]

Such as:

I should have been more clear. I understand how they are used for storage. My question was about how the benefit transport in MA, of course. i.e., if it's not a lockable case then what good is it?

 

[allen-1]

I should have been more clear. I understand how they are used for storage. My question was about how the benefit transport in MA, of course. i.e., if it's not a lockable case then what good is it?

They don't.

Gun ownership in Massachusetts

Massachusetts residents 15 years and older who wish to possess, carry, and transport firearms, ammunition, and feeding devices are required to have a firearms license. Firearms licenses are issued by municipal police departments.

www.mass.gov

Transporting firearms in motor vehicles​

Handguns: Under an LTC, the holder is allowed to transport a loaded or unloaded handgun on his person or in a motor vehicle if the handgun is under his direct control. If the handgun is not under his direct control or is left unattended, it must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container.
Large-Capacity Rifles and Shotguns: All persons transporting large capacity rifles or shotguns under an LTC must transport them unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container. Trigger locks do not meet the requirements of securing a large-capacity firearm during transport in a motor vehicle. Large-capacity firearms left unattended in a vehicle must be unloaded and in a locked case, locked trunk, or other secure container.
Non-Large-Capacity Rifles and Shotguns: Non-large capacity rifles and shotguns may be transported under an LTC or FID license and must be unloaded but are not required to be in a locked case while transporting. Muzzleloading or other Black Powder arms must also be unloaded while transporting. Note: Although locking cases are recommended, only large-capacity rifles and shotguns are subject to this transporting requirement.
The laws for transporting a firearm can be confusing. Basically, if you keep the firearm unloaded, and locked in a case in the trunk or rear storage compartment of a truck or SUV you will comply with the current law

 

[looser38]

I should have been more clear. I understand how they are used for storage. My question was about how the benefit transport in MA, of course. i.e., if it's not a lockable case then what good is it?

I understand your question better now.
Under MA law, of no use.

 

[Keeper]

They don't.

Gun ownership in Massachusetts

Massachusetts residents 15 years and older who wish to possess, carry, and transport firearms, ammunition, and feeding devices are required to have a firearms license. Firearms licenses are issued by municipal police departments.

www.mass.gov

Transporting firearms in motor vehicles​

Well, that will save me a lot of explaining transport laws to people I know. Thanks.

 

[Realtor MA]

I understand your question better now.
Under MA law, of no use.

Just seeing this now. You figure a handgun with cable lock through the action/magwell in a range bag is not suitable for transport?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just seeing this now. You figure a handgun with cable lock through the action/magwell in a range bag is not suitable for transport?

He is referring to the "locked case" term used in the law regarding in vehicle transport, not common sense.

 

[Realtor MA]

He is referring to the "locked case" term used in the law regarding in vehicle transport, not common sense.

I know but I'm thinking a locked gun in a case of some sort falls under 'other secure container'
Maybe a stretch but a definition of 'contain' is to control or restrain.

 

[MisterHappy]

I know but I'm thinking a locked gun in a case of some sort falls under 'other secure container'
Maybe a stretch but a definition of 'contain' is to control or restrain.

For the price of a plastic tackle box, and a cheap lock, is it worth it?

 

[Broc Tuah]

Just seeing this now. You figure a handgun with cable lock through the action/magwell in a range bag is not suitable for transport?

Not in MA.

Which is retarded considering you can put a sh*t plastic trigger lock and leave your gun on your coffee table.

 

[KMM696]

I know but I'm thinking a locked gun in a case of some sort falls under 'other secure container'
Maybe a stretch but a definition of 'contain' is to control or restrain.

It's always entertaining to watch people try to get 'MA gun law' and 'logic' into the same courtroom.

 

[CrackPot]

Not in MA.

Which is retarded considering you can put a sh*t plastic trigger lock and leave your gun on your coffee table.

You are wrong. Thank you for playing our game.

The summary above from mass.gov is actually not a correct summary of the law. MGL 140 131C is the law on transport. It actually says only handguns can be loaded and must be under your direct control. Everything else, unloaded. Large capacity long guns in a locked container or trunk. The law is SILENT on unloaded handguns and unloaded non-large capacity long guns. Go read it again...

So sure, a cable lock on your handgun is "enough" because it is more than is required. You can legally throw unloaded handguns around your car like skittles. Now when you park you had better meet storage so that cable lock helps...

But of course this is not mass prudent. 99.99% of police think your handguns need to be in a locked container and will act accordingly.

 

[Broc Tuah]

You are wrong. Thank you for playing our game.

The summary above from mass.gov is actually not a correct summary of the law. MGL 140 131C is the law on transport. It actually says only handguns can be loaded and must be under your direct control. Everything else, unloaded. Large capacity long guns in a locked container or trunk. The law is SILENT on unloaded handguns and unloaded non-large capacity long guns. Go read it again...

So sure, a cable lock on your handgun is "enough" because it is more than is required. You can legally throw unloaded handguns around your car like skittles. Now when you park you had better meet storage so that cable lock helps...

But of course this is not mass prudent. 99.99% of police think your handguns need to be in a locked container and will act accordingly.

That still talks about class A and B.

This is from Mass.gov - seems to be pretty clear that a locked container is needed if not under direct control while traveling.

Gun ownership in Massachusetts

Massachusetts residents 15 years and older who wish to possess, carry, and transport firearms, ammunition, and feeding devices are required to have a firearms license. Firearms licenses are issued by municipal police departments.

www.mass.gov

 

[KMM696]

That still talks about class A and B.

This is from Mass.gov - seems to be pretty clear that a locked container is needed if not under direct control while traveling.

Gun ownership in Massachusetts

Massachusetts residents 15 years and older who wish to possess, carry, and transport firearms, ammunition, and feeding devices are required to have a firearms license. Firearms licenses are issued by municipal police departments.

www.mass.gov

Did you happen to notice the first sentence in the 131C page?

"[Text of section effective until January 1, 2021. For text effective January 1, 2021, see below.]"

Read the second 131C for the current one...

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

I already have a gun safe and I was planning on getting some more tools than it can take.

From what I can tell, as long as the safety device (trigger lock, gun lock, etc…) renders the tool useless it’s ok to store a firearms outside of a safe. Does that sound correct?

I am not aware of any storage laws for your home. Everything people listed above is related to transportation or vehicle storage.
If you live alone, your home is your "safe". If you have anyone in your home who doesn't have at least a FID, they would be breaking the law if the guns were not locked up. Even if it is an unlicensed neighbor who came into your house to give you your mail: the second they step inside the home, they would be breaking the law.
That is why you need to "secure" the firearms. To accomplish that and stay within the letter, the gun needs to be either in a lockable enclosure or a gun lock. a lockable desk drawer is acceptable. A soft carry pouch with a $5 lock is enough. The cheap 50 cent trigger lock you get when you buy a thousand-dollar gun at Cabela's is adequate. A toolbox with a lock is adequate.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I am not aware of any storage laws for your home. Everything people listed above is related to transportation or vehicle storage.
If you live alone, your home is your "safe". If you have anyone in your home who doesn't have at least a FID, they would be breaking the law if the guns were not locked up. Even if it is an unlicensed neighbor who came into your house to give you your mail: the second they step inside the home, they would be breaking the law.
That is why you need to "secure" the firearms. To accomplish that and stay within the letter, the gun needs to be either in a lockable enclosure or a gun lock. a lockable desk drawer is acceptable. A soft carry pouch with a $5 lock is enough. The cheap 50 cent trigger lock you get when you buy a thousand-dollar gun at Cabela's is adequate. A toolbox with a lock is adequate.

The first highlighted statement is obviously true, as the second highlighted statement in just plain wrong under MGL.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I am not aware of any storage laws for your home. Everything people listed above is related to transportation or vehicle storage.
If you live alone, your home is your "safe".

SO totally wrong.

E.T.A. Boudrie beat me to it by moments.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I already have a gun safe and I was planning on getting some more tools than it can take.

From what I can tell, as long as the safety device (trigger lock, gun lock, etc…) renders the tool useless it’s ok to store a firearms outside of a safe. Does that sound correct?

BUT, The SCOTUS ruled
It also ruled that two District of Columbia provisions, one that banned handguns and one that required lawful firearms in the home to be disassembled or trigger-locked, violate this right.

Yes, I know! I don't want to be the test subject either.

 

[TOM1960]

I am not aware of any storage laws for your home. Everything people listed above is related to transportation or vehicle storage.
If you live alone, your home is your "safe". If you have anyone in your home who doesn't have at least a FID, they would be breaking the law if the guns were not locked up. Even if it is an unlicensed neighbor who came into your house to give you your mail: the second they step inside the home, they would be breaking the law.
That is why you need to "secure" the firearms. To accomplish that and stay within the letter, the gun needs to be either in a lockable enclosure or a gun lock. a lockable desk drawer is acceptable. A soft carry pouch with a $5 lock is enough. The cheap 50 cent trigger lock you get when you buy a thousand-dollar gun at Cabela's is adequate. A toolbox with a lock is adequate.

When I was married, I was licensed (FID) but she wasn't. I bought a pair of Homak low profile gun cabinets that fit between the 2x4s, flush with the wall. One went into a bedroom closet and one went into a coat closet. I painted them to match the colors of the rooms and they just about disappeared into the background. Each held two long guns plus ammo on a top shelf. A burglar would easily miss them, since they looked like utility connection boxes. The best part was the price; about $90 each at the time. Very low profile as well as very economical. Money well spent. When the house was sold after the divorce, the buyers were trap and sporting clays enthusiasts. The built in gun lockers were a nice selling point.

 

[CrackPot]

That still talks about class A and B.

This is from Mass.gov - seems to be pretty clear that a locked container is needed if not under direct control while traveling.

CRAPPY Screenshot deleted

The mass.gov site you linked is nothing more than some politicians or bureaucrats summarizing what they think the law means or what they think they can tell you the law means that they want you to do. What matters is MGL. You are reading the old version if it references Class A and Class B. Same page, read the new version. The law is amazingly clear if poorly written and there are NO requirements for transport of unloaded handguns and unloaded non-large capacity rifles and shotguns.

But everyone THINKS it says something else.

 

[Len-2A Training]

The mass.gov site you linked is nothing more than some politicians or bureaucrats summarizing what they think the law means or what they think they can tell you the law means that they want you to do. What matters is MGL. You are reading the old version if it references Class A and Class B. Same page, read the new version. The law is amazingly clear if poorly written and there are NO requirements for transport of unloaded handguns and unloaded non-large capacity rifles and shotguns.

But everything THINKS it says something else.

^^^^^ This is spot on. Relying on ANYTHING posted on the state website re gun law, if it isn't a direct quote of the law, is very likely to be incorrect/out of date/just an opinion of a bureaucrat with no authority to make law . . . DO NOT rely upon it as fact.