Mod Zero: Zero your Picatinny Rail - Unlock your Optics

[enbloc]

We will certainly go gold. After about 30 mins of trying to pay for the gold membership yesterday on Paypal (it wouldn't accept our business account), I decided to just buy green out of pocket. I'm calling the bank today for a couple of things, this is one of them.

We are absolutely interested in working with NES'ers on beta testing. Our current prototypes do not properly reflect our final product, we used them for in house testing. We are still a few weeks out from having final preproduction models in hand.

If you are interested in beta testing please feel free to PM me or email me at luke.yost@modzerodefense.com.

That's great Luke. We look forward to seeing more of your product, and hearing from you on its advantages.
~Matt

 

[Mod Zero]

I guess some peole might see a benefeit to the product. Personally i don't...well maybe i would if the price point was like $125.
i just cant see serious precision shooters not having deticated optics.
For the rest of us i move my eotech and magnifiers between similar rifles without major zero changes, usually none out to 250 yards.

My only other question/issue/comment would be how does the added heigh effect cowitness?
I would have like to see a beta done here or ar15.com. i want people i know to give an honest review, not that i wouldn't try it myself against others advice.


I'm not trying to be negitive, i think youll do well but for 250 or more accurstely 250+250 is $500 to really use the product for its intended purpose..so ya id buy another $1000 optic

EDIT $250/$275 whatever... you get the idea

Fair points for sure. If we could build a scalable business model and price at $125 we certainly would. But buying quality, properly made parts in the US have their costs. In order to build a stable, accurate rail, there are tight tolerances involved. We pushed the engineering as far as we could to minimize height, weight and cost.

I thought the same with precision shooters, but we've had lots of interest from newer precision shooters trying to budget all of their gear and competitors who have several platforms for different competition types.

Variation in zero between rifles is definitely a summation of many factors. We have two AR's with a 20 MOA difference. I think it comes down to luck more than anything given two rifles.

I will work on visuals today to show height difference better. Thank you for establishing the need for this graphic.

Your math is fair and we are not shy of criticism, it's why we're looking for feedback on NES. Everyone's situation certainly varies. I would like to point out that you do not necessarily need one for each rifle. Someone can setup a rifle as their standard zero. So you don't necessarily need "250+250". It is more of $275 vs $1K.

The value of range time varies for everyone as well. If you are switching your eotech + magnifier between rifles and changing the zero of each, every time you go to the range, that adds up (+ ammo cost).

 

[MGnoob]

Good point about zeroing the optic on one rifle and using your product on another.....that makes it far more practical.optics price are why i dont have one on every rifle.

 

[JayMcB]

At $550 to share a scope between 2 rifles, you're not that far off from the cost of another scope - unless you're buying megabuck scopes, and then are you going to trust the zero on it to a QD mount?

 

[jasons]

...or you just write down the scope's zero for each rifle and turn the knobs when you move it, and save yourself half a pound of weight and half an inch of additional height.

The zero is going to shift a few clicks anyway. Picatinny rails are not exactly know for precision and repeatability.



PS, you should probably have a dealer account.

 

[cockpitbob]

At $550 to share a scope between 2 rifles, you're not that far off from the cost of another scope - unless you're buying megabuck scopes, and then are you going to trust the zero on it to a QD mount?

Only 1 rifle needs the ModZero mount to match it to the other's fixed mount.

 

[Garys]

That was my thought. I can see a market for high end shooters who might use a $1,000.00 plus scope on their rifles, but I don't know if it would make sense for the average shooter.

I do wish them success because I want to see any 2A company do well.

At $550 to share a scope between 2 rifles, you're not that far off from the cost of another scope - unless you're buying megabuck scopes, and then are you going to trust the zero on it to a QD mount?

 

[FalArAk]

Well good luck man,sounds like you have your business plan together and are pretty focused.


To get a real feel of the way your product might be received go on Arfcom,the money you spend there for a dealer account might save you a bunch of money in the future if you find out people arent really interested.Maybe they have some sort of product development membership there,you should check it out.

Here, I did the work for you,my fee is 5% off the top.

Seriously though,this sounds like the best thing you can do to get it off the ground,NES is small potatoes compared to Arf.

New products can be submitted for evaluation and to be featured on the AR15.com home page by sending to:

ARFCOM Product Evals
c/o Edward Avila
901 VZ CR 3215
Wills Point, TX 75169

Please be sure to include your contact info, any literature/documentation, availability dates, pertinent facts.

 

[Mod Zero]

6/6/17 Update:

Prototypes:
Our manufacturer received the anodized aluminum parts back today and are expecting the black oxidized tomorrow for the preproduction prototypes. Looking great so far. Springs should be arriving in MA Thursday. This points us to early next week for assembly and testing of our parts.

If there are members here with experience with spring vendors they recommend, we would greatly appreciate leads. Our current order is for prototype springs from a vendor in Cali that did not provide a good customer experience.

Beta Testing Form:
If you are interested in testing our preproduction models as mentioned previously in this thread, please fill out this form: https://goo.gl/forms/Q4ISIH1j6KbjtRvC3

Enter Giveaway:
For every 250 email signups we get we are giving away a free mount. Signup here to join: http://eepurl.com/cPDjKb.
We will be sending out at most weekly updates as we approach launch and unsubscribing is easy in every email.

Co-witness:
We are still in the process of researching various scope and mount combos. So far, the best combo has been an Aimpoint COMP 4S with a factory no-riser mount. Most other red dots on a low mounts seem to sit below the standard co-witness height, which is a good sign. There also seem to be candidates for lower 1/3 heights. If you have questions about a specific scope/mount combo, please ask and I will check.

Regardless of your preference, if you run a QD mount, your standard height backup iron sights will be visible over the M0 Scope Mount.

Thank you all,
-Luke

 

[Mesatchornug]

I assume you've talked to both Lee Valley and Century for your springs?

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[Mod Zero]

We have heard of Century spring, I will revisit them. By Lee Valley did you mean Lee spring? We referenced Lee spring in some of our design work so far. I do not see many spring listed on Lee Valley.

Thanks you for the recommendations!

 

[Mesatchornug]

I think you're right. It's been a little bit since I needed to deal with spring vendors. I mess up their names all the time.

 

[Terminator03]

Very interesting concept. Wish I thought of it! As others have said, I think the biggest goal should be to get your price point down a bit. I know quality costs money, and there is certainly a market for high end products like this, but I wouldn't expect stellar sales from average gun owners unfortunately. Speaking personally, I don't own any high end optics other than an Eotech, which even with the high end LaRue QR mount I have for it, costs around what two of your mounts would be, so for someone like myself, who owns mostly budget PA micros, it's more economical to just keep buying separate optics. If I were ever to get a high end scope, or ACOG though, I could certainly see some value in having it be interchangeable. Either way, awesome work!

 

[edhead35]

I would see a value in this for swapping out my short range hunting rifles. Hunting within 150 yards at most and usually within 75 yards. When you go into production look at companies with palletized automation milling like Hoppe tool in Chicopee. They already have a butt load of experience with weapons systems and this is not their first time milling picatinny specs. They were bought out by a bigger company, and the former owners aren't involved anymore. I can reach out to one of them and see what company he is at now because if I know him well he will get right back in the palletized wall of tombstone fixtures Mazak milling machines game, and that's where your lights out hours and cost savings are in the U.S. Labor is cost saving in Asia, but my U.S. Suppliers compete when quantities are high. Send me a PM if you are interested.

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[Mod Zero]

I would see a value in this for swapping out my short range hunting rifles. Hunting within 150 yards at most and usually within 75 yards. When you go into production look at companies with palletized automation milling like Hoppe tool in Chicopee. They already have a butt load of experience with weapons systems and this is not their first time milling picatinny specs. They were bought out by a bigger company, and the former owners aren't involved anymore. I can reach out to one of them and see what company he is at now because if I know him well he will get right back in the palletized wall of tombstone fixtures Mazak milling machines game, and that's where your lights out hours and cost savings are in the U.S. Labor is cost saving in Asia, but my U.S. Suppliers compete when quantities are high. Send me a PM if you are interested.

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Awesome! Pm'd!

 

[Mod Zero]

Very interesting concept. Wish I thought of it! As others have said, I think the biggest goal should be to get your price point down a bit. I know quality costs money, and there is certainly a market for high end products like this, but I wouldn't expect stellar sales from average gun owners unfortunately. Speaking personally, I don't own any high end optics other than an Eotech, which even with the high end LaRue QR mount I have for it, costs around what two of your mounts would be, so for someone like myself, who owns mostly budget PA micros, it's more economical to just keep buying separate optics. If I were ever to get a high end scope, or ACOG though, I could certainly see some value in having it be interchangeable. Either way, awesome work!

Certainly! I understand where you're coming from 100%. For my information, can you provide some context on what rifle you use your Eotech on, how many PA micro's you have, and what rifles the micro's are on?

 

[groundscrapers]

I would see a value in this for swapping out my short range hunting rifles. Hunting within 150 yards at most and usually within 75 yards. When you go into production look at companies with palletized automation milling like Hoppe tool in Chicopee. They already have a butt load of experience with weapons systems and this is not their first time milling picatinny specs. They were bought out by a bigger company, and the former owners aren't involved anymore. I can reach out to one of them and see what company he is at now because if I know him well he will get right back in the palletized wall of tombstone fixtures Mazak milling machines game, and that's where your lights out hours and cost savings are in the U.S. Labor is cost saving in Asia, but my U.S. Suppliers compete when quantities are high. Send me a PM if you are interested.

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Eric Hagopian was the former owner but hes involved with a new venture now. They do great work but would likely price yourself right out of the market all said and done.

 

[edhead35]

Depending on volume, and lights out discounts, this is exactly the work Hoppe used to do, but everything is volume dependent. Eric is a good guy. I've reached out to him already and if he doesn't do this sort of stuff now he knows someone that does.

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[Terminator03]

Certainly! I understand where you're coming from 100%. For my information, can you provide some context on what rifle you use your Eotech on, how many PA micro's you have, and what rifles the micro's are on?

I have the Eotech with Larue QR mount on an AR, but I'm planning to try it on my Tavor X95, so it would be nice to be able to swap back and forth. I have a PA micro on a M&M M10-762 AK, another on a KSG, and another on my S&W 15-22 AR. There's probably others I'm not thinking of at the moment, but that should somewhat answer the question anyway.

 

[Mod Zero]

We received our preproduction prototypes about a week ago. Been working on final tweaking and testing. We might have to remake one part, but results so far have been great. Standby for the detail initial testing video, but I was able to throw together this quick demo video: