My First AR?

[prohjac]

I have saved $700 and I am in the market for an AR-15. Part of me wants to get into High Power Competitions, part of my wants to plink. Should I poke around gun stores, gun shows and buy a complete rifle, or buy a lower and look around for an upper(I have heard this is a cheaper way to go). Any ideas?

Hal

 

[atmay]

Save up some a little more - $700 will get you into the 'plinking' AR category, but for $1000 or so, you can get a good rifle from one of the more reputable manufacturers, like Lewis Machine and Tool, Bravo Company, Colt, Spikes or Noveske.

Rainier Arms has LMT uppers for $485
Spikes has their M4LE upper for $525, complete M4LE rifle (non MA compliant, if you live in MA) for $850 or so.

Stripped lowers go for about $100 each, a standard LPK is $50-90, then you need a receiver extension, buffer set up, stock, etc.

Buying separate can save you money, but little things you didn't think about tend to pop up that way.

 

[pipmaster1971]

Building your own can save you money...but not a vast amount. I just built my first, and still spent about $1100 all in. The lower isn't going to break the bank that much, but the upper can. In my case I got a good upper from pkfirearms (www.pkfirearms.com).

 

[mac1911]

"Competitions" when ever I hear this or think it I need to ask myself "how much do I want to spend" does not matter what sport,intrest or hobby

 

[mac1911]

Im new to ARs going on 3 years.......find myself back to just a flat top carbine. Went tactical,tackdriver,accesorries back to standard plinking carbine. Its all fun and you can recoup close to original cost if you do not beat up the equipment to much before you switch interests

 

[JayD]

Remsport can probably help you. You can setup something you like and the total labor is generally like $100 bucks!

 

[S. Kelly]

Spike's Tactical has an M4 clone that they will neuter for ban states like MA for short money-$799 plus $100 or so for neutering.
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113&products_id=387

 

[jar]

If you want to shoot high power, talk to some competitors about getting started. There are specific equipment rules you have to follow to compete in the service rifle categories. Otherwise you'll be shooting against the big money match rifles.

If I were you, I'd save a little more until I could swing a white oak service rifle upper, a lower, and the lower parts. The white oak complete upper is $695. You can get a complete lower with a2 stock for about $300 or spend a bit more for one with a match trigger in it. You can save a little bit by buying a stripped lower and building it up yourself. Geiselle triggers are the gold standard but I hear good things about the rock river arms match trigger. RRA sells a complete lower with match trigger for $380. $1075 for a rifle that'll take you pretty far in highpower.

I don't shoot highpower (yet), but this is my composite of the advice I've read here.

 

[Gonzo]

Buy an M-4 clone with a detachable carry handle. They're freeking lego kits. Work from there. If you don't like one part, swap it out. You can fine tune the thing on a budget until you end up with enough spare parts to build another rifle.

 

[jar]

Buy an M-4 clone with a detachable carry handle. They're freeking lego kits. Work from there. If you don't like one part, swap it out. You can fine tune the thing on a budget until you end up with enough spare parts to build another rifle.

Not legal for the matches he's talking about shooting.

 

[Gonzo]

Not legal for the matches he's talking about shooting.

"part of him" is talking about shooting those matches. The other part wants to "plink". I'm talking about learning the rifle.

 

[mac1911]

go to a match, if high power is anything like trap shooting there are trends and whos who is shooting what. If you do get into building ARs you could do a little at a time.
Key point is "what" matches will you be shooting? Will you shoot enough to maintain interest in high power.

keep saveing and get both a plinking upper and a match service rifle upper if service rifle is where you want to go.

as said you can part out your unwanted or I changed my mind parts at any time with a small loss.

 

[jar]

keep saveing and get both a plinking upper and a match service rifle upper if service rifle is where you want to go.

What's wrong with plinking with a service rifle upper?

 

[mac1911]

Jar its just a Personal thing......I would buy a plinker upper to feed the more affordable steel case ammo and reserve the match grade quality rifle for match grade ammo.

I had all intentions of starting to shoot ARs in matches.
Then I was thinking what type? Bench,service,3 gun, tactical type stuff ect ect.
So I went out and purchased a S&W M&P15 peformance center rifle thinking I would just shoot the high power rifle comps that allow this. Never happened changed direction 3 gun was looking more interesting. Sold off the M&P for what I paid.....then got the building bug. Built another target type AR, never got the optics to go on it and sold that also. Then I built a standard 20" barreled AR for service comps....................But now I find myself likeing to shoot my Garands alot better.
in 3 years I have purchased 2 complete ARs and built 5. Im now down to 2 carbines for range fun. I also went crazy with rails,lights,lasers,grips,bi pods,mono pods ect ect.

no matter what it was fun. I only lost a tad on resale on the tactical stuff and broke even on the build ups.

 

[Bob P]

Bought my first AR around $700. Couldn't afford more at the time. I've spend at least that in optics, upgraded parts etc since then. The gun is more than accurate enough for my abilities and has been very reliable. It got me into the game a lot faster than it would have had I waited and spent more on the initial outlay - and I likely would have spent the same money in upgrades/accessories.

 

[prohjac]

Here is what I am thinking. Buying a used lower and getting a flat top upper in 20" from j&t distributing. I can then switch between sights for any high power I might try and a red dot for fun plinking?

It prices out around $800. Read some good things about j&t.

Could change my mind, but this is what I am leaning towards, today....

 

[mac1911]

almost certain to change your mind(uppers) I find myself looking @ the larger cal uppers as of late.............I have no idea why!!!

 

[travis]

Depends. Remember that if you build one yourself then your going to also have to buy tools to get the build done right. If you have never built one buy a ready built one first to get to understand the workings and the parts. Then you can always "upgrade" a part or two at a time. Either way your in for it. You start with one then you have a safe full of em and boxes of parts all over the place.

 

[Stef]

Depends. Remember that if you build one yourself then your going to also have to buy tools to get the build done right. If you have never built one buy a ready built one first to get to understand the workings and the parts.

Nonsense. The first AR I ever held in my hands was one I built myself. The only thing I didn't do was install the foreend because I didn't have the particular wrench I needed and the manufacturer was backordered forever.

By building it yourself, not only do you become intimately familiar with the AR and it's operation but it's a fun project that you shouldn't be afraid to tackle. There are plenty of excellent FREE resources to show you every step of the process.

 

[travis]

Nonsense. The first AR I ever held in my hands was one I built myself. The only thing I didn't do was install the foreend because I didn't have the particular wrench I needed and the manufacturer was backordered forever.

By building it yourself, not only do you become intimately familiar with the AR and it's operation but it's a fun project that you shouldn't be afraid to tackle. There are plenty of excellent FREE resources to show you every step of the process.

Did you torque the barrel?
Did you head space it?
Did you test fire it in a firing jig remotely?
Did you check to insure the trigger was positive?
Did you check protrusion on the firing pin?

If the answer to any of those questions is no then IMHO it is unsafe.

I agree IF your a person with those abilities. However a person who does not understand head spacing and have the correct tools to fix that or a person access to someone who does and can then building a rifle might be unsafe. Yes many barrels these days are fine. I of course do as I was taught and still no matter if everything comes out perfect according to the blueprints I still NEVER fire a firearm in my hands when firing for the first few shots. I am however very safety aware and when a person asks a question like that IMHO buying a tested rifle or building one if your not sure of what your doing then I say buy the one that has been put together by someone who knows what there doing and has TEST fired the weapon.

I however would recommend that with the proper tools and information building your own is a great thing. As long as it is done correctly and safely.

 

[crazymjb]

Test fire in a firing jig remotely? Apart from head-spacing do share why a proper functions check does not suffice?

Mike

 

[Stef]

Did you torque the barrel?

Yes.

Did you head space it?

Yes.

Did you test fire it in a firing jig remotely?

No. And I doubt that 99.999% of people who have assembled their own AR have either.

Did you check to insure the trigger was positive?

Sorry, that phrase doesn't mean anything to me, or Google on first glance. I performed a standard function check. Are you referring to something else?

Did you check protrusion on the firing pin?

Nope, and no one I know has either. Listening to armorers say "I've checked thousands of them when they came through the shop and never had one out of spec" makes me feel pretty confident that it's not a huge issue.

If the answer to any of those questions is no then IMHO it is unsafe.

Oh no, I guess it's unsafe then.

 

[Dench]

What's wrong with plinking with a service rifle upper?

nothing

 

[travis]

Test fire in a firing jig remotely? Apart from head-spacing do share why a proper functions check does not suffice?

Mike

Because even a proper functions check will not show faults that live fire will. What if there is a unseen crack in the barrel extension? Maybe the bolt is not as hard as it should be or what if it is to hard? What if there was a problem with the barrel? Maybe the guy drilling the gas hold clamped down on the barrel to hard and deformed it?

Along with the countless other things that COULD go wrong. Are these things rare sure but they do happen and people do get hurt and killed form these things being overlooked or missed.

In any case it is a chance I personally am not willing to take nor will I tell someone else to without knowing the possibilities of what could happen.

 

[travis]

Yes.


Yes.


No. And I doubt that 99.999% of people who have assembled their own AR have either.


Sorry, that phrase doesn't mean anything to me, or Google on first glance. I performed a standard function check. Are you referring to something else?


Nope, and no one I know has either. Listening to armorers say "I've checked thousands of them when they came through the shop and never had one out of spec" makes me feel pretty confident that it's not a huge issue.


Oh no, I guess it's unsafe then.

If your going to be working on any firearm you should be aware of the difference between a Positive, Negative or Neutral trigger. If you don't know and fully understand each one and the difference between them then you should not be touching them.

I take all aspects of firearms with safety FIRST. Pain in the rear to some sure. Takes longer to get some things done sure. The fact is I am not willing to risk injury or death do to not taking the proper precautions and doing things the RIGHT way.

Telling someone to go ahead and do something that could end there life if done wrong is irresponsible IMHO. If you choose to take the risk yourself I have no problem with that as long as your not next to me or any other innocents at the range. However having demonstrated you do not have understanding of something as basic and important as the proper functioning of a trigger you really should not be giving advice to others without a caveat regarding your own knowledge on the subject at hand.

 

[atmay]

Is it even possible for an AR trigger to have negative engagement? Based on the geometry of the FCG, it doesn't seem like it's even possible.


Also, based on what you're saying....every firearm we ever buy should probably be remotely tested out of a jig by the end-user before actual live fire, since we don't know what happened at the factory.


I'd rather bet on getting eaten by a shark while holding a winning lottery ticket which unfortunately gets burnt to a crisp by the lightning that hit me.

Manufacturing defects occur in all industries...and shit blows up sometimes. I didn't remote test my AR, but then again I didn't remote test my car, lawnmower or iPod dock either.

 

[Gonzo]

Did you torque the barrel?
Did you head space it?
Did you test fire it in a firing jig remotely?
Did you check to insure the trigger was positive?
Did you check protrusion on the firing pin?

If the answer to any of those questions is no then IMHO it is unsafe.

Firearms are inherently unsafe. So are cars.

Do you check your oil, tire pressure, transmission fluid, gear fluid, ball joints, and wheel bearings before you drive?

 

[MassMark]

I feel as if this thread is heading into either partial, or perhaps full retardo-land...

 

[Dench]

If your going to be working on any firearm you should be aware of the difference between a Positive, Negative or Neutral trigger. If you don't know and fully understand each one and the difference between them then you should not be touching them.

Thanks for preaching about this, having a person say they dont know what it is, still preach about it and not bother to explain.

I dont know how we survive at the range without knowing about pos, neg or neutral triggers

Wicked helpful, guy!

 

[Jasper]

Here is what I am thinking. Buying a used lower and getting a flat top upper in 20" from j&t distributing. I can then switch between sights for any high power I might try and a red dot for fun plinking?

It prices out around $800. Read some good things about j&t.

Could change my mind, but this is what I am leaning towards, today....

interested in a Compass Lake built service upper (douglas 1:7, 3200 rounds down the tube). retails @ $1060, selling for $500.