My Glock frame broke!

[drgrant]

So I could not bring my gun to a gun shop in NH for repairs?
And that shop might need to send it out for something?

Not being a pain here but just wondering.

Yes you can, but a busted frame necessitates an SN change if they have to replace that frame. An SN change means it's a "new firearm" as far as the feds are concerned, at least to most FFLs. There are some exemptions in fed law for repairs but most FFLs don't follow them to that degree. (other than the "no 4473/background check required for most repairs" bit. )

-Mike

 

[Madmarek]

I see now. You can do repairs as long as the frame is not replaced.
So if it could be sent back to the factory, welded, and sent back its ok.
I know thats not the case with a glock.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[drgrant]

I see now. You can do repairs as long as the frame is not replaced.
So if it could be sent back to the factory, welded, and sent back its ok.
I know thats not the case with a glock.

Not to nitpick, but bear in mind even if your gun is steel, and the frame cracks, most manufs are not going to weld it up. They're going to replace the frame just like they would with a Glock, unless your manufacturer is a custom house or something of that nature. (eg, a real gunsmith). Most factory service depots don't have many individuals with the facilities or skills to do real gunsmithing (eg, like welding frames). It's cheaper for them to just give you a new frame. (Also less liability, considering a fractured steel frame probably has some kind of inherent metallurgical defect to it, anyways, which caused the crack to appear to begin with. ) Busted frames on non-compliant handguns are often a no win or "little win" situation unless you have a manufacturer that's willing to do a frame only transfer into MA (to one of the willing handful of dealers) or is willing to make you another frame with exactly the same serial number. (IIRC, BATFE allows (or at least they did allow) this, as long as the original frame was destroyed in the process... most manufs don't do this, though, either.

The silver lining in this cloud though, is that, the OP in this thread basically won the backwards lottery. "This never happens" is more the norm here, regardless of brand. Over the years I've only ever run into a few people that needed handgun frame replacements of any kind. Ironically enough, several of them were on S+W airlite TI .357 mag revolvers. (Either they had a bad run of those things, or the super light frame can't stand the pounding/abuse- some of which might be why the new night guards and the like are somewhat heavier than than the 12 ounce .357s they make...)

-Mike

 

[dwarven1]

Will Glock replace a broken frame?

It depends.
If you live out side of Massachusetts, yes absolutely.
If you live inside of Massachusetts, you may be in a bind. Glock will not replace your broken frame with a new frame. Why? The AG.

If Glock can find a old, pre 98 frame or gun for you, they may offer to use that part or gun to replace your broken glock.

I have gone through this problem before with customers at work who have had broken frames. Glock is not willing to deal with our state and its .gov.

Yes you can, but a busted frame necessitates an SN change if they have to replace that frame. An SN change means it's a "new firearm" as far as the feds are concerned, at least to most FFLs. There are some exemptions in fed law for repairs but most FFLs don't follow them to that degree. (other than the "no 4473/background check required for most repairs" bit. )

Strange... when my Para P10 broke the frame, I sent it to Para, and they sent me back a P10 with a different frame - and they sent it directly to ME, not to an FFL. I seem to recall being told that they were allowed to do this (as you say, Mike) because it was a repair.

So it would seem like Glock doesn't care enough for it's MA customers to do that. Interesting to note.

 

[Dench]

Strange... when my Para P10 broke the frame, I sent it to Para, and they sent me back a P10 with a different frame - and they sent it directly to ME, not to an FFL. I seem to recall being told that they were allowed to do this (as you say, Mike) because it was a repair.

So it would seem like Glock doesn't care enough for it's MA customers to do that. Interesting to note.

Glock says that a new frame is a new firearm. Glock will not willingly give out post 98' glocks in MA. Thats the rational.

Glock has basically jumped off the boat when it comes to MA customers largely due to the AG. Glock is at the point were they treated me rudely at the CAMFOUR show last week after they found out i was from MA. If they can't get a $100,000 order out of me for civilian guns they dont want to talk to me. They simply dont care that the store i work for sells LE Glocks or the fact that im an Armorer and a (now fading) Glock fanboy.

The experiance with their sales people was so displeasing, if i was in charge of it i would of fired 2 out of 4 of the Glock employees there on the spot.

 

[dwarven1]

Glock says that a new frame is a new firearm. Glock will not willingly give out post 98' glocks in MA. Thats the rational.

Glock has basically jumped off the boat when it comes to MA customers largely due to the AG.

Apparently the statement I put in bold is the key statement - as Scrivener has posted over and over again, MA doesn't consider a frame to be a firearm. Shame, since so many folks like the Glock here in MA.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Thats impossible, Glocks never break.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Federal law allows a manufacturer to ship a like gun back with the same serial number for repair purposes without use of an FFL as intermediary. It would be perfectly acceptable for Glock to do so, since (a) Glock is not a"purveyor" under MGL, and (b) Glock could od a frame for frame exchange and comply with MGL. The former is "iffy" since you never know when the AG could declare an FFL a purveyor even without a MA dealer's license, and the later would deprive Glock of the ability to inspect the entire gun. As far as Glock is concerned, this is walking near the edge of the precipice and they won't rely on either of these more subtle aspects of MGL and federal law.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Federal law allows a manufacturer to ship a like gun back with the same serial number for repair purposes without use of an FFL as intermediary. It would be perfectly acceptable for Glock to do so, since (a) Glock is not a"purveyor" under MGL, and (b) Glock could od a frame for frame exchange and comply with MGL. The former is "iffy" since you never know when the AG could declare an FFL a purveyor even without a MA dealer's license, and the later would deprive Glock of the ability to inspect the entire gun. As far as Glock is concerned, but are walking near the edge of the precipice and they won't rely on either of these more subtle aspects of MGL and federal law.

I know of one instance where Bushmaster replaced a "preban" AR bullpup with a brand new "preban" Bullpup.

 

[blindndead]

Intresting Thread, last post was on 01-15-2010 08:24 AM Has anything changed with glock or the bs still stands?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Glock is not going to change their policy!

Rob Boudrie and I tried to convince them otherwise a few years ago, but internal politics dictates that they will not change.

 

[blindndead]

This thread has made me look at glock in a different light.

 

[Len-2A Training]

This thread has made me look at glock in a different light.

The answer I got made me look at Glock in a different light as well. I'm exempt from that policy . . . for now, but whenever I cease being in law enforcement, my goose would be cooked too.

 

[glide]

I filed a complaint with the AG's office stating they (Glock) were refusing to fulfill a warranty service they offer to all other customers because of their interpretation of MA laws. The AG's office sent a letter stating someone would be contacting me soon to help with mediation.

Hopefully I can get something in writing from the AG's office stating that, strictly for warranty purposes, they can ship a new glock frame back to me.

It's been 3 months without my Glock and on top of all this they CASHED the check I sent them for the refinishing service. Thanks a lot.

 

[ochmude]

The answer I got made me look at Glock in a different light as well. I'm exempt from that policy . . . for now, but whenever I cease being in law enforcement, my goose would be cooked too.

So Glock will send a frame directly to a LEO? What if it isn't the LEO's Glock? I'm just wondering if that would be a workaround.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm asking if I can send in a Glock for refurb and have it sent back to a LEO. Or possibly transfer it to an LEO, have them send it in and receive it back, then have them transfer it back to me. Does it have to be a LEO's duty firearm? I'm not even sure if any of that would be legal or not, just brainstorming.

 

[blindndead]

I filed a complaint with the AG's office stating they (Glock) were refusing to fulfill a warranty service they offer to all other customers because of their interpretation of MA laws. The AG's office sent a letter stating someone would be contacting me soon to help with mediation.

Hopefully I can get something in writing from the AG's office stating that, strictly for warranty purposes, they can ship a new glock frame back to me.

It's been 3 months without my Glock and on top of all this they CASHED the check I sent them for the refinishing service. Thanks a lot.

What a hassle, The 1 glock I have is great love it I am thinking I will stick with the 1 and move on, If things change keep me posted.

 

[meth0d]

That's very unfortunate about the frame, as well as Glock's response. I'm curious to see what the AG's office will do for you.

 

[glide]

That's very unfortunate about the frame, as well as Glock's response. I'm curious to see what the AG's office will do for you.

Me too. It shouldn't be against the AG's regs or MA law to ship back. So I'm hoping they will put aside the fact that it's an evil gun and help me out.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So Glock will send a frame directly to a LEO? What if it isn't the LEO's Glock? I'm just wondering if that would be a workaround.

EDIT: To clarify, I'm asking if I can send in a Glock for refurb and have it sent back to a LEO. Or possibly transfer it to an LEO, have them send it in and receive it back, then have them transfer it back to me. Does it have to be a LEO's duty firearm? I'm not even sure if any of that would be legal or not, just brainstorming.

IANAL, but it's my understanding that the OWNER can legally ship a gun to a dealer/mfr for repair/modification. I wouldn't want anyone to risk a vacation in Club Fed to ship someone else's gun to Glock for repair. I know that I wouldn't do it.

It need not be a duty gun, just owned by a LEO . . . realize this is strictly to make Glock Legal Dept warm and fuzzy. If it was any other company, any gun owner could probably send in a gun under similar circumstances and expect to get it repaired/replaced directly.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Me too. It shouldn't be against the AG's regs or MA law to ship back. So I'm hoping they will put aside the fact that it's an evil gun and help me out.

It isn't. However after they investigate the complaint, it might suddenly appear in the CMRs to make it "illegal according to the AG"! It's a risk you take when you file this sort of complaint.

 

[glide]

It isn't. However after they investigate the complaint, it might suddenly appear in the CMRs to make it "illegal according to the AG"! It's a risk you take when you file this sort of complaint.

If I wasn't out of options I wouldn't have brought it to their attention. But as of now I'm out $600 and a carry gun. It's either going to ruin the party for everyone else, or open the doors up to actually have warranty claims like this honored in the future without the hassle.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Glide, I wasn't criticizing what you did, just pointing out the risks involved with our current administration at the "helm"!

There may be another alternative for those with known broken frames, but it would REQUIRE a written opinion from BATFE's Tech Branch in order to use it with impunity.

It would be as follows:

Asking BATFE if it would be Federally Legal to physically bring a broken gun to a licensed gunsmith in another state and leave it with him/her for repair. Would it then be legal for said gunsmith to ship it back to Glock for a replacement frame WITH A DIFFERENT S/N (this is KEY here), receive the replacement frame from Glock and hand it back (again KEY here) to the rightful owner in that second state.

If BATFE Tech Branch (NO-ONE else at BATFE can give a legal, binding opinion on these type of issues) responded that this was AOK, then the gun owner could bring it back to MA and file a FA-10 with the new frame S/N with CHSB and beback in business. [drgrant would call this a wallhack. ]

I think that the chances of BATFE approval have pretty good odds and more likely than the AG telling Glock that it's OK.

Since it's Federally ILLEGAL to purchase/transfer a handgun via an FFL to you in a state you don't live in, BATFE would have to look at this as a non-transfer for such purposes and strictly as a gunsmith doing a "repair".

I broached this subject to a non-MA FFL ~1 year ago and he honestly had no idea if this would be legal or not. I've since learned NOT to ask or trust any legal opinions from local BATFE agents . . . and BATFE does have a proper procedure to get such answers.

Good luck.

 

[glide]

Don't worry Len, I wasn't taking it as a criticism.

I'll keep everyone posted as to how it turns out.

 

[TomH]

If this is true, Mass residents could really buy any frame correct? By this logic, if I were to buy a 3rd gen glock (or any gun) out of state, have the upper shipped directly to me and the frame to an FFL.... [roll] This is making my head hurt....

I think this was discussed around the time of the 1911 frame buy... you can get a new frame from a manufacturer. But you can't have just anyone disassemble one and send you the frame seperately. You can't buy bare frames from most manufacturers.

Edit: Oh wow, I didn't realize this thread was so old!

 

[glide]

Heard back from the AG's office today. They have assigned someone to my case, said I sent them a very thorough explanation of the issue, and hoped we would be able to reach a resolution with the vendor. The woman I spoke with seemed very nice and willing to help out. Hopefully we can actually make some progress here as Glock REALLY needs to make a policy change on their end.

 

[Tommy Gun]

Good job and best of luck.

 

[glide]

Update: Guess what was waiting for me when I got home today? A Fedex slip from Smyrna, GA.

I picked up the package at my local hub and inside was a BRAND NEW (to me) Glock 26. I'm glad I got it back, but I also want to see my compliant with the AG to the end to make sure if it ever has to go in again I get it back in a timely fashion. I'm glad Glock helped me out eventually, but the wait was 4 times as long as what someone in a free state would have to go through.

Now since I have a new gun with a new serial number, I assume I have to file a new FA-10 to register it? Do I also have to file a second one stating that the old gun was destroyed/lost? What's next?

 

[drgrant]

Update: Guess what was waiting for me when I got home today? A Fedex slip from Smyrna, GA.

I picked up the package at my local hub and inside was a BRAND NEW (to me) Glock 26. I'm glad I got it back, but I also want to see my compliant with the AG to the end to make sure if it ever has to go in again I get it back in a timely fashion. I'm glad Glock helped me out eventually, but the wait was 4 times as long as what someone in a free state would have to go through.

Congrats! Consider yourself lucky. There are companies like Beretta that basically say "go screw" on repairing non-compliant pistol frames.

Now since I have a new gun with a new serial number, I assume I have to file a new FA-10 to register it? Do I also have to file a second one stating that the old gun was destroyed/lost? What's next?

I would FA-10 it as a registration, like you would if it was a post-move in import. That's all you have to do. I would keep the repair slip as "proof" of where the old one went, although I doubt it would ever be an issue. Since you sent the old gun out of state to an FFL, I don't think this requires another FA-10. You did not lose the gun, nor was it stolen from you. It was basically sent to an FFL and logged in their books.

-Mike

 

[saltydude]

Here's something of intrest. Iv'e had very good luck with Glock's customer service in the past but I'm talking 10 years ago & things have changed. To the people that puchased Glocks in Mass in May of 2004. Having one of these models is good & bad. It's good because it's 3rd gen, you can shoot it untill it's completly worn out & still return it for the full original purchase cost including tax. The bad thing is if you break your frame your screwed. Tried to look up the serial # in Glocks data base, it strangely doesn't exist. ???!!! How can this be? Cough, cough!! Glock trying to make those models disappear perhaps? If anyone out there has one of these models, DON'T ever send it to Glock for service. From what I understand You will never get it back!