My shooting inconsistencies are really starting to get on my nerves.

Big_Red

Big_Red

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I have been shooting for over two years but I continue to be very inconsistent in placing my shots. I have spent countless hours dry firing my guns and training with snap caps. I have gone through ball and dummy drills. I pay attention to my grip and my trigger pull. Yet, I continue to struggle placing my shots in the center of the target and most of them continue to travel to the left (see target below). I know I can do better than that because I have. During the Intro to IDPA class I was putting all my rounds through the same two holes (head and body) of my target. Then as the day went on my shots started to get farther apart and again drifted to the left. What is my problem? Is it possible that I continue to flinch? I have been working on that and I thought that I had it under control?

Any ideas?

[EDIT] I just looked at a shooting chart and it indicates "too little or too much trigger trigger finger". What the heck does that mean? I always shoot placing the pad of my index finger in such way that the trigger is right in the middle of it.

target.jpg
 
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Maybe your gun is shooting to the left. Have you tried another gun? The upper target and lower target seem to be showing 2 different patterns. Any differnece when shooting those targets. Same stance, ammo? What distance?

I can not give any great advice because I would be ok with those groupings. The bad guy would still be in a bag.
 
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red87930 said:
Maybe your gun is shooting to the left. Have you tried another gun? The upper target and lower target seem to be showing 2 different patterns. Any differnece when shooting those targets. Same stance, ammo?

I can not give any great advice because I would be ok with those groupings. The bad guy would still be in a bag.
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It is not the gun. I shoot that way with all my guns.
 
You could have a slight stigmatism.

Here is how you can tell...

Place a laser bore sighter on the firearm...if the bore sighter needs to be sighted in make sure it is done by someone who does not share your problem. Then focus the sights on the bulls eye...have someone else determine where the laser is hitting.

If when you line the sights you find that the laser is off that likely indicates that the problem is with your eyes.

I used to encounter this problem with students quite frequently.
 
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You know,my shots with my m&p40 are ALL left...some high some low some off the target completely. When I shoot my 1911, they are all either on target or with 2-3 inches ALWAYS to the right.

I think it has to do with the trigger in my case. I feel my wrist move and thumb squeeze every shot.
 
Did you shoot those from the top down ? If so it looks like you needed a warm - up and then peaked whenever you made the big holes in the bottom target.
 
Maybe it does sound stupid, but seeing your groups, I believe that you are aiming with the wrong eye. I have many friends doing the same and all of them as soon as they started to aim with the other eye, they got 100% better. Now, in the case that you are using the right eye, here it come another question that might sounds stupid, but it has lots to do with our aim. Do you smoke during the time you are at the range, etc? I asking because I am smoker myself and even if we don’t believe it, as soon as a light a cigarette during a shooting brake, the worst I shot, it is not a great difference but still a difference

Ish
 
bostonasphalt2 said:
I am with ya, Big Red, except my shots keep going left and low. Ugh.
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Welcome to the club Left & Low club... Basically you're anticipating recoil. What's really fun is when you practice dry-firing until its completely gone and then shoot and its immediately back...so you have a friend load snap caps randomly so you can see just how dramatically you are screwing up.

I think its like a nervous twitch...once you stop thinking about it- it will go away, but because its there- you keep thinking about it (you anticipate the anticipation and therefore make it real again). It's a repeating cycle of doom.

The only good news is that if you keep practicing correctly, it will, someday- go away (and you will also spend enough on ammunition to send some guy at Winchester's kid to college...which is a plus for his kid).

[angry]
 
I am right handed myself, but left eye dominant. What I can tell you is that depending the distance, our dominant eye could change.

Ish.
 
Big_Red said:
Nope. I shot the large target first and then the top.
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I'd suggest getting some snap caps and have somebody else load the mags for you / lacking a shootin' buddy load the mags inside a shopping bag with the snaps mixed in with live rounds.

When you hit a snap instead of a live round you'll find out what you're doing wrong as long as you're focusing on the front sight.
 
BigRed your not alone, that's EXACTLY how my targets look. I've gotten to the point where I'm aiming slightly to right of center, but it still doesn't help. It's damn frustrating, if I had the cash i would take some classes. I'm sure an expert could straighten the issue out.
 
Roadblock said:
Welcome to the club Left & Low club... Basically you're anticipating recoil. What's really fun is when you practice dry-firing until its completely gone and then shoot and its immediately back...so you have a friend load snap caps randomly so you can see just how dramatically you are screwing up.

I think its like a nervous twitch...once you stop thinking about it- it will go away, but because its there- you keep thinking about it (you anticipate the anticipation and therefore make it real again). It's a repeating cycle of doom.

The only good news is that if you keep practicing correctly, it will, someday- go away (and you will also spend enough on ammunition to send some guy at Winchester's kid to college...which is a plus for his kid).

[angry]
Click to expand...


Especially given your statement that you were one-holing it when you shot IDPA this sounds like the most reasonable one yet - assuming it's not an eye issue. When you were playing IDPA you weren't over-thinking your shots and were letting your body do the work for you.
 
How far were the targets? How fast were you shooting them?

I'm guessing you are either milking the gun or you aren't pulling the trigger straight back. It's not easy and if you look at other people's groups you will see all kinds of patterns. I don't think you are flinching as you are firing but you might be influencing your gun with your grip as you shoot.

When I slow fire- I try to keep everything relaxed and not even use a very firm grip- since it's slow fire recoil management isn't an issue. When I do this the groups are nice and tight. When I speed things up the patterns often change.. and not always the same. Ever day is slightly different.

What are you shooting goals? Are you concerned you won't be able to shoot accurate enough in IDPA? Don't over practice on just one thing... but accuracy is something everyone always trys to get better at.

EDIT: Double plug... or should I say use plugs and muffs. The reduction of noise will help a tad too.
 
You may be tightening your grip as you pull the trigger which may pull it off center.
 
Inconsistency comes from inconsistency. Makes sure everything is the same for each shot. Your grip needs to be the same for every shot. If you haven't been show the proper grip and stance and why it is proper. Then find someone that can. Dryfire and practice only renforce what you are doing, bad practice equal bad results
 
MrTwigg said:
I'd suggest getting some snap caps and have somebody else load the mags for you...
Click to expand...

I've been doing that already. I have 10 mags and load them all with ammo and snap caps. Then throw them back into my range bag, mix them up and pull one one. I don't think flinch.

Lugnut said:
How far were the targets? How fast were you
shooting them?
Click to expand...

Targets were about 8-9 yards away. I shot 1 round per second, give or take a millisecond or two.

Lugnut said:
What are you shooting goals? Are you concerned you won't be able to shoot accurate enough in IDPA? Don't over practice on just one thing... but accuracy is something everyone always tries to get better at.
Click to expand...

I want to be able to hit what I am aiming at and be able to do it fast. This isn't too much to ask, is it? [wink]

wahsben said:
You may be tightening your grip as you pull the trigger which may pull it off center.
Click to expand...

Could be. [thinking]

Supermoto said:
Inconsistency comes from inconsistency. Makes sure everything is the same for each shot. Your grip needs to be the same for every shot. If you haven't been show the proper grip and stance and why it is proper. Then find someone that can. Dryfire and practice only reinforce what you are doing, bad practice equal bad results
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I have been shown the right grip and stance. It was checked during the IDPA class.

Bob P said:
Especially given your statement that you were one-holing it when you shot IDPA this sounds like the most reasonable one yet - assuming it's not an eye issue. When you were playing IDPA you weren't over-thinking your shots and were letting your body do the work for you.
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That was during stationary drills. Once I actually got to shoot the course things went down hill fast but that was mainly because I was nervous and rushed my shots.

Mark63 said:
BigRed your not alone, that's EXACTLY how my targets look. I've gotten to the point where I'm aiming slightly to right of center, but it still doesn't help. It's damn frustrating, if I had the cash i would take some classes.
Click to expand...

I may need to do that as well.
 
Where does your front sight go after you break the shot? Where does it settle after recoil? groups like that At 8-9 yards you are definately influencing the gun. You have a fundemental issue with grip, trigger break or influence on the gun. I would get proper training so that you are wasting ammo. It will save you a lot of time and money in the long run
 
For a defensive gun with fixed sights, thats not horrible shooting at 30 feet. Do you shoot the same sort of groups when you shoot slowly and deliberately from a rest? If so, your sights need to be adjusted a little to the right.
 
If all your shots with a variety of firearms tend to shoot left it might just be your shooting. I have to move the sights of all my guns to the left. If anybody else shoots my firearms I need to move the sights back. This includes handguns and long guns and the different types of sights open, peep, and scopes.
I would shoot groups with varius firearms and see if the groups are similar. If so I would adjust my sights. I blamed myself for a long time before I decided to move my sights.
 
Big_Red said:
I have been shooting for over two years but I continue to be very inconsistent in placing my shots. I have spent countless hours dry firing my guns and training with snap caps. I have gone through ball and dummy drills. I pay attention to my grip and my trigger pull. Yet, I continue to struggle placing my shots in the center of the target and most of them continue to travel to the left (see target below). I know I can do better than that because I have. During the Intro to IDPA class I was putting all my rounds through the same two holes (head and body) of my target. Then as the day went on my shots started to get farther apart and again drifted to the left. What is my problem? Is it possible that I continue to flinch? I have been working on that and I thought that I had it under control?

Any ideas?

[EDIT] I just looked at a shooting chart and it indicates "too little or too much trigger trigger finger". What the heck does that mean? I always shoot placing the pad of my index finger in such way that the trigger is right in the middle of it.

View attachment 7631
Click to expand...

Red,

Take this for what it is worth, just my own experience (the little that I have)

Two things stand out to me. First, when you ran the IDPA class I am assuming that you were thinking about the instructions and a new way of shooting and therefore your midset is different than when you usually go to the range. You may be doing what was described to me as "overthinking" or getting in your own head.

My example is this: I was placed against another person who was a good shot and we were told to hit a 8x11 steel target at 35 yards twice. As we shot I constantly missed the target as he scored the two shots. The instructor asked the rest of the people if they had watched me and he then said I was getting into my own head as he saw me shake my head and have other facial expressions as I continued to miss, putting more stress on myself and causing more errors to occur as I shot. He then told me to get back on the line and just hit the target, not thinking about anything. It took me 5 shots to hit it twice when I had gone through 3 mags the first time and not hit it once.

When you are shooting and have issues you may begin to anticipate recoil, move your grip, dart your eyes from target to sight and other bad habits. I know for me when the buzzer goes off for IPSC you cant think about much except shooting, and since I cant see where the shots are right away I tend to do better than just sitting critiqueing myself alone. I know I am never satisifed with what I do and always try to improve so I KNOW I can let my mind get in the way of something I know I can do.


Second issue may be shooter fatigue. If you first were one holing shots then as the day progressed got worse you may be just fatigued. If you are hearing sensitive try earplugs and a electronic muffs (or regular). Caffeine or hunger can cause problems too. You may also have become more confident and then begin to overthink again, causing the deteriorating behavior.


The IDPA class shows you have the skillset to one hole shots so you just need to figure out why your skills deteriorate at certain times.

Good Luck
 
Two things, you should be practicing with a 22 till this goes away if it doesn't then the gun (any gun) isn't sitting in your hand properly. This happens to people with longer fingers. The gun is improperly positioned to make up for the longer fingers. The backstrap should be placed in the center of the palm. The gun should be placed in your hand so that you are not fighting for position. Remember the joints of the body are like elastic bands and always want to go to a relaxed position. Also by judging the position of the gun by the triggerfinger and not by the palm it will be off. Hope this helps. If you ever come to the MRA in Woburn I can better see what's going on and may be able to help further.

Paul

Firearm Safety Academy
 
Big_Red said:
Could you elaborate? Because I do wear eye glasses for distance.

[EDIT] I saw your edited post above. Unfortunatley I do not have a bore sighter available.
Click to expand...

Astigmatism is a vision condition caused by an irregular shaped cornea, or lens.. If you are aready wearing glasses, then I would doubt that's it. It is usually seen, and diagnosed at a routine eye exam.
I shoot left with my M&P only... weird..
 

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