-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/Pioneer Valley Arms February Giveaway ***Smith & Wesson SD9VE 9MM***
Need more mention of lead hazard.
- Thread starter eddbrowne
- Start date
J
Jose
What a crock of shit.
I actually don't disagree. Some indoor ranges have horrible ventilation. They just spend $16k on our "new and improved" indoor range and after 10 rounds of federal bulk 22, I'll never step foot in there again. Even after 5 shots a cloud just hung right in my face with little to no air movement. Shooting some cast in there behind a hot load and you are sure to be inhaling all sorts of crap. Now for outdoor ranges where people say lead is getting into water supplies and all that, that is a crock IMO.
Ah, take an iron supplement and you'll just piss it right out
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2009
- Messages
- 16,367
- Likes
- 4,838
If you practice basic hygiene (wash your hands before eating or smoking, wash your clothes instead of wearing them for days after, etc...) you will be fine 99% of the time. If you're really worried just get your lead levels checked once a year or so. The whole "lead scare" is nothing but bullshit that antis use to drive up the cost of shooting.
I spent over a year working the MCAS Yuma rifle and pistol ranges 5 days a week (100's of thousands of rounds if not more.) When I finished my lead levels were almost the same as when I started.
I spent over a year working the MCAS Yuma rifle and pistol ranges 5 days a week (100's of thousands of rounds if not more.) When I finished my lead levels were almost the same as when I started.
If thats an outdoor range it really doesn't compare. But your spot on about hygiene; ingestion is alot more harmful than inhalation.
The Fin Fur and Feather club just put in a fancy new ventilation system for their indoor range. It was designed and built by some club members (and good friends of mine). I was told that they got it tested (EPA i think) and the lead readings after heavy use was a big fat zero.
Lead hazard links
http://www.gun-tests.com
on lead hazards
Link to:"Lead in Teen Pits County Against Family"
http://www.precisioncartridge.com/lead.html
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/epitox/fact_sheets/firingranges_emp.pdf
http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/facility_mngmnt/environment/Lead-OSHA.pdf
Link to:"Lead And Environmental Considerations"
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/wp-solutions/2010-113/pdfs/2010-113.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead#Health_effects
http://www.gun-tests.com
on lead hazards
Link to:"Lead in Teen Pits County Against Family"
http://www.precisioncartridge.com/lead.html
http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/epitox/fact_sheets/firingranges_emp.pdf
http://www.rangeinfo.org/resource_library/facility_mngmnt/environment/Lead-OSHA.pdf
Link to:"Lead And Environmental Considerations"
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/wp-solutions/2010-113/pdfs/2010-113.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead#Health_effects
im more worried about my wifes hair spray and the frik'N air fresheners she has spirting stuff out all over the house. I dam near drew my handgun one night when one of those automatic air fresheners went spppiiirrrttttsss behind me. I did not know my wife had set one up down stairs.
- Joined
- May 17, 2008
- Messages
- 16,980
- Likes
- 2,841
That quote is straight out of brady talking points where they count self inflicted gun shots with all the other uses to make up this bull crap. There are a lot of "gun" sites that are plants for them, expect wherever you got that to be one of them.
breslau
NES Member
Looks like entire "site" is the OP's blog.... no idea why he would link to it rather than stating his points here...
I pack baby wipes with me to the range, and wipe my hands off before leaving. I generally shoot outdoors, so I'm not greatly concerned about lead. If I shot regularly indoors, in a poorly ventilated range, I'd consider a respirator, if only for the Darth Vader jokes.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2007
- Messages
- 11,156
- Likes
- 1,646
I bought D-Lead wipes and soap and I use the wipes at the range and then right when I get home I Scrub down with the soap.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
F
Finalygotabeltfed
There's some good information along with a good bit of misinformation salted throughout this thread. I spend most of my time consulting for government and industry in the general area of environmental toxicology, some of it doing human health risk assessments. I also shoot indoors frequently and have had some trouble with lead over the last couple of years, so I'd like to share some facts about lead exposure.
First, lead poisoning is not a myth and pretending that it is, or that it's some sort of great anti-gun conspiracy, won't make it go away. That doesn't mean that we're ruining the environment by shooting lead bullets, nor does it mean that we're all going to die early deaths, it simply means that it's a real hazard that we should be aware of and take reasonable actions to protect ourselves against. In that sense, it's no different than the other things we do to be safe while shooting such as keeping muzzles pointed downrange, etc. We've probably all known individuals who were somewhat casual about following range rules, and they may never have gotten hurt nor harmed anyone else, but that doesn't mean there's not a real risk involved.
With regard to exposure, it doesn't matter how the lead gets into your body - once it's in there it has the same effect regardless of source and it can take some time to get it out. Generally, for moderate lead levels, simply isolating yourself from the source and giving it time will be enough - for acute cases, chelation therapy (not simply taking iron pills) can be effective, but I understand that it's not something you want to go through unless it's absolutely necessary.
For shooters, inhalation of lead from lead styphnate priming compound, along with vaporized lead from bullets, is the exposure pathway of most concern - although there's some disagreement in the research literature, it appears that as much as 90% of inhaled lead actually enters the body. Skin (dermal) contact with lead is not in itself of concern as the lead does not pass through the skin, but eating or drinking with lead contamination on the skin can introduce the lead into the digestive tract, where absorption (again, with some disagreement in the literature) can range up to 40%. Washing or the use of deleading wipes after exposure can take care of that problem.
Lead in the body is measured by taking a blood sample - it's not that the lead is mostly present in the blood, but simply that blood is a comparatively easy tissue to sample - and is expressed in terms of micrograms per deciliter (ug/dL) - 1 ug/dL is the same as one part in one hundred million. A typical serum (blood) lead concentration for an adult in the US is in the mid single digits. Over 10 is considered elevated and over 20 is the point at which corrective action should be taken (some would argue these numbers should be lower but I don't think you'll find too many physicians saying they should be higher).
Now, some personal experience. One of the guys on my pistol team happened to be feeling a bit poorly and had his doctor test his lead, which came back at a bit over 60 ug/dL. I decided to have my own tested and found that I was at 31 ug/dL. We both started using respirators while shooting indoors and in a year he was able to bring his serum lead down into the low 20's while got mine down to 10.8. At around the time that my lead was elevated, I started having blood pressure problems for the first time in my life. Now that I've got the lead under control, my blood pressure has stabilized at an acceptable level. Elevated blood pressure is a documented effect of lead poisoning.
As a result of all that, I and most of the people I shoot with now use respirators routinely when shooting indoors, and especially when doing range cleanup chores. In addition to keeping serum lead down, the respirator also eliminates that weird taste in the back of your throat and all that black snotty mucus.
I don't think that shooting outdoors is likely to be a problem except in very unusual circumstances, and I don't wear the respirator when I'm outdoors. I also don't worry about lead on my skin, and don't wear rubber gloves when reloading, as some do (I do make sure I wash my hands well after handling lead). I have started wearing disposable gloves when cleaning guns because there is some anecdotal evidence that solvents can allow lead to penetrate skin, but also because, much as I may like the smell of Hoppe's No. 9, I don't need it following me around for hours after a cleaning session.
One other thing that's not a concern for me, but might be for you. Children are many times more susceptible to lead poisoning than adults and if you wear the same shoes, and even the same clothes, you've been to the (indoor, mostly) range with you can track lead into your home where your kids will pick it up.
First, lead poisoning is not a myth and pretending that it is, or that it's some sort of great anti-gun conspiracy, won't make it go away. That doesn't mean that we're ruining the environment by shooting lead bullets, nor does it mean that we're all going to die early deaths, it simply means that it's a real hazard that we should be aware of and take reasonable actions to protect ourselves against. In that sense, it's no different than the other things we do to be safe while shooting such as keeping muzzles pointed downrange, etc. We've probably all known individuals who were somewhat casual about following range rules, and they may never have gotten hurt nor harmed anyone else, but that doesn't mean there's not a real risk involved.
With regard to exposure, it doesn't matter how the lead gets into your body - once it's in there it has the same effect regardless of source and it can take some time to get it out. Generally, for moderate lead levels, simply isolating yourself from the source and giving it time will be enough - for acute cases, chelation therapy (not simply taking iron pills) can be effective, but I understand that it's not something you want to go through unless it's absolutely necessary.
For shooters, inhalation of lead from lead styphnate priming compound, along with vaporized lead from bullets, is the exposure pathway of most concern - although there's some disagreement in the research literature, it appears that as much as 90% of inhaled lead actually enters the body. Skin (dermal) contact with lead is not in itself of concern as the lead does not pass through the skin, but eating or drinking with lead contamination on the skin can introduce the lead into the digestive tract, where absorption (again, with some disagreement in the literature) can range up to 40%. Washing or the use of deleading wipes after exposure can take care of that problem.
Lead in the body is measured by taking a blood sample - it's not that the lead is mostly present in the blood, but simply that blood is a comparatively easy tissue to sample - and is expressed in terms of micrograms per deciliter (ug/dL) - 1 ug/dL is the same as one part in one hundred million. A typical serum (blood) lead concentration for an adult in the US is in the mid single digits. Over 10 is considered elevated and over 20 is the point at which corrective action should be taken (some would argue these numbers should be lower but I don't think you'll find too many physicians saying they should be higher).
Now, some personal experience. One of the guys on my pistol team happened to be feeling a bit poorly and had his doctor test his lead, which came back at a bit over 60 ug/dL. I decided to have my own tested and found that I was at 31 ug/dL. We both started using respirators while shooting indoors and in a year he was able to bring his serum lead down into the low 20's while got mine down to 10.8. At around the time that my lead was elevated, I started having blood pressure problems for the first time in my life. Now that I've got the lead under control, my blood pressure has stabilized at an acceptable level. Elevated blood pressure is a documented effect of lead poisoning.
As a result of all that, I and most of the people I shoot with now use respirators routinely when shooting indoors, and especially when doing range cleanup chores. In addition to keeping serum lead down, the respirator also eliminates that weird taste in the back of your throat and all that black snotty mucus.
I don't think that shooting outdoors is likely to be a problem except in very unusual circumstances, and I don't wear the respirator when I'm outdoors. I also don't worry about lead on my skin, and don't wear rubber gloves when reloading, as some do (I do make sure I wash my hands well after handling lead). I have started wearing disposable gloves when cleaning guns because there is some anecdotal evidence that solvents can allow lead to penetrate skin, but also because, much as I may like the smell of Hoppe's No. 9, I don't need it following me around for hours after a cleaning session.
One other thing that's not a concern for me, but might be for you. Children are many times more susceptible to lead poisoning than adults and if you wear the same shoes, and even the same clothes, you've been to the (indoor, mostly) range with you can track lead into your home where your kids will pick it up.
When I was a kid we would melt down lead to make fishing sinkers.
No protective masks, gloves just bare hands and breathing in all those fumes.
We never washed our hands after handling the lead before we ate our lunch and I don’t see any problem......
Ah what wait what was it we are we talking about?
Dam that lead!
Dam that lead!
No protective masks, gloves just bare hands and breathing in all those fumes.
We never washed our hands after handling the lead before we ate our lunch and I don’t see any problem......
Ah what wait what was it we are we talking about?
Dam that lead!
Dam that lead!
There's plenty of data that shows Pb to be a less than desirable substance to be in intimate contact with. Sadly, lead exposure will be great tool for anti-gun ownership idiots to use in their pursuit to ban all firearms. Let's remember their ultimate goal despite how concerned they are about our health. (Yeah...right!)
Although lead-free bullets (frangibles and solids) are a means to remove lead exposure from most shooting activity, it won't satisfy the aforementioned idiots! That's another fight that will extend beyond my mere post on a forum.
Regarding lead-free frangibles though, I can attest to the merits of SinterFire's offerings. I use their product in several calibers and have had excellent results. Prices are on par or less than most jacketed bullets. They are less dense, of course, and bullet weights are sub-par with standard lead/jacketed fodder.
The 45 ACP bullet is 155 grains and is loaded as if a 230 gr FMJ due to volume of bullet mostly. (The 155 grain 10mm bullet is loaded as if a 200 grain lead jacketed bullet; the 125gr .308 as if a 168gr., etc.). Last weekend I shot them at steel plating from about 12 inches; no bullet blowback, nothing. Granted, this isn't your usual shooting scenario, but they do work as advertised. It's apparent that they reduce ricochet hazards as well as lead exposure.
Although lead-free bullets (frangibles and solids) are a means to remove lead exposure from most shooting activity, it won't satisfy the aforementioned idiots! That's another fight that will extend beyond my mere post on a forum.
Regarding lead-free frangibles though, I can attest to the merits of SinterFire's offerings. I use their product in several calibers and have had excellent results. Prices are on par or less than most jacketed bullets. They are less dense, of course, and bullet weights are sub-par with standard lead/jacketed fodder.
The 45 ACP bullet is 155 grains and is loaded as if a 230 gr FMJ due to volume of bullet mostly. (The 155 grain 10mm bullet is loaded as if a 200 grain lead jacketed bullet; the 125gr .308 as if a 168gr., etc.). Last weekend I shot them at steel plating from about 12 inches; no bullet blowback, nothing. Granted, this isn't your usual shooting scenario, but they do work as advertised. It's apparent that they reduce ricochet hazards as well as lead exposure.
Last edited:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Group-Tests-show-lead-in-apf-1592110379.html?x=0&.v=1
That settles it! I'm going to kill the wife and kids before they get lead poisoning! Just like that woman over in the UK that would gladly put the pillow over her suffering kid's face to destroy a "couple of cells"... geesh!
http://radioviceonline.com/british-...e-her-child-if-she-deemed-it-to-be-suffering/
That settles it! I'm going to kill the wife and kids before they get lead poisoning! Just like that woman over in the UK that would gladly put the pillow over her suffering kid's face to destroy a "couple of cells"... geesh!
http://radioviceonline.com/british-...e-her-child-if-she-deemed-it-to-be-suffering/
