New S&W M&P 15-22 Sporter woes

[Matt-CZ]

I picked up a new S&W M&P 15-22 sporter from four seasons in woburn over the holiday weekend. I had been eyeing them for a while and the new price drop made it just right.

I took it to the range and have had some serious problems with accuracy. I can't get any kind of grouping out of it at all. It's seriously all over the place, no rhyme or reason. I was cranking away at the sights, both elevation and windage, for over an hour before I gave up. It's so bad, I can't even reliably keep rounds on paper at 50 yards off the bench.

Fearing that the plastic front hand guard might be flexing and moving the front sight mounted there, I tested it with my 4x simmons scope. Same issue. Nothing I can do to make this thing group reasonably. It's flyers every 2 or 3 rounds. No difference between standard and high velocity rounds. With the 4x, I can tell that it's not a trigger pull issue. Even with the heavy pull, the reticle stays firmly in the black, with hits all over the place.

Attached some images to demonstrate. The third target is my control, same ammo out of my marlin 60. I'm no marksman, but that can't explain it.

I'm awaiting a reply via email from the S&W QA department. Sent out Tuesday, 3-5 day response is typical. Hoping I just got a lemon that they can either fix or replace.

Anyone have a similar experience?

 

[Palladin]

Wow

 

[Matt-CZ]

Wow

I've read online that some rifles have come out the factory with loose barrels. There's nothing to indicate mine has any obvious looseness, but I don't have the tools to properly check it.

Any company can put out a lemon. Assuming S&W fixes my issue or replaces it with a working rifle, I'll still consider myself a happy customer.

 

[92G]

1) are both those ammo types copper plated? if so I would try some 40gr unjacketed too.

2) don't bother emailing S&W. in fact i wouldn't waste my time emailing any manufacturer. call them and request an RMA. they may issue youa replacement rifle if it's grouping that shitty.

I stopped buying S&W products a while ago and glad I did. their current production is beyond shit. their attitude towards their clientele is equally crap. hell even their rep that visits the MA shops is a toolbox. S&W and Kel-Tec are fighting for who is bigger turd.

 

[Christian]

Why not try different ammo before sending it off(how many of us wouldn't enjoy more range time)? It took awhile to figure what my .22, not a M&P 15-22, liked best.

 

[Happy feet]

Did you try dialing in your sites at a closer distance and then working your way out to the longer distance?

 

[Matt-CZ]

S&W replied to request additional info. RMA in the next 3-5 days.

I tried 2 different ammo. Aguila Super Extra Standard Velocity, and Federal High velocity. At this point, I'm pretty confident there is a QA problem with the rifle.

Assuming they can get this problem solved, I actually like the rifle a good bit. Feels pretty close to an AR, but only cost me $300. The flexible plastic handguard isn't great, but it is possible to replace them with a regular AR guard.

 

[mac1911]

S&W replied to request additional info. RMA in the next 3-5 days.

I tried 2 different ammo. Aguila Super Extra Standard Velocity, and Federal High velocity. At this point, I'm pretty confident there is a QA problem with the rifle.

Assuming they can get this problem solved, I actually like the rifle a good bit. Feels pretty close to an AR, but only cost me $300. The flexible plastic handguard isn't great, but it is possible to replace them with a regular AR guard.

Did you clean the bore before shooting it?
Did you keep switching back and forth between ammo types.
How where you shooting? Bench, rest, bags ?
I would send the thing back as soon as you get your RMA be nice if you can get a refund. Hey for shits and giggles bring it sunday.

only know a few folks with the 15-22 they all took the hand guard end cap off.
The barrel nut is a 4 prong spanner type.

 

[Matt-CZ]

Did you clean the bore before shooting it?
Did you keep switching back and forth between ammo types.
How where you shooting? Bench, rest, bags ?
I would send the thing back as soon as you get your RMA be nice if you can get a refund. Hey for shits and giggles bring it sunday.

only know a few folks with the 15-22 they all took the hand guard end cap off.
The barrel nut is a 4 prong spanner type.

I didn't clean the rifle bore before shooting. All I did was strip and lubricate.

I was shooting mostly from a bench with a wooden rest. But having read about flexing foregrip issues, I tried varying the pressure applied to the rest. I also shot with the rifle supported from the magazine to try and avoid any barrel interactions. I shot with and without the end cap. No difference as far as I could tell, but when around 1/2 of the rounds are off paper, it's hard to say much.

I switched pretty often between the high velocity federal and my standard velocity aguilla as I was troubleshooting. High velocity cycled a bit more reliably as the shot count got up in 300's, but other than that no discernible difference.

My preferred option would to get a working rifle back. Lots of good reviews for this rifle, I think I just got unlucky. 2-3 moa would be adequate as I'm rarely any better than that on my best days.

When I was in Four Seasons, I was undecided between this rifle and the TCR-22. Seems like I chose poorly. Knowing my luck the TCR special pricing will be over before my RMA is finalized.

As far as removing the barrel nut, I've seen it advised to clamp the rifle by the barrel (with a set of special purpose vice jaws) Torquing with the plastic upper secured can crack it. There's a popular kit available the includes the jaws, a spanner, and nut adapter. But it's kind of pricey for a $300 rifle. It is a bit disappointing how much the OEM fore-end flexes, especially if you want to use the iron sights as the front sight is mounted to the forend and noticeably wanders as force is applied to the fore-end (more so if end cap removed).

 

[amm5061]

You got a lemon. Mine groups just fine at 50 yards. Pretty much equivalent to your Marlin 60 groups and I'm no precision shooter either.

 

[mac1911]

I didn't clean the rifle bore before shooting. All I did was strip and lubricate.

I was shooting mostly from a bench with a wooden rest. But having read about flexing foregrip issues, I tried varying the pressure applied to the rest. I also shot with the rifle supported from the magazine to try and avoid any barrel interactions. I shot with and without the end cap. No difference as far as I could tell, but when around 1/2 of the rounds are off paper, it's hard to say much.

I switched pretty often between the high velocity federal and my standard velocity aguilla as I was troubleshooting. High velocity cycled a bit more reliably as the shot count got up in 300's, but other than that no discernible difference.

My preferred option would to get a working rifle back. Lots of good reviews for this rifle, I think I just got unlucky. 2-3 moa would be adequate as I'm rarely any better than that on my best days.

When I was in Four Seasons, I was undecided between this rifle and the TCR-22. Seems like I chose poorly. Knowing my luck the TCR special pricing will be over before my RMA is finalized.

As far as removing the barrel nut, I've seen it advised to clamp the rifle by the barrel (with a set of special purpose vice jaws) Torquing with the plastic upper secured can crack it. There's a popular kit available the includes the jaws, a spanner, and nut adapter. But it's kind of pricey for a $300 rifle. It is a bit disappointing how much the OEM fore-end flexes, especially if you want to use the iron sights as the front sight is mounted to the forend and noticeably wanders as force is applied to the fore-end (more so if end cap removed).

Your shocked a cheap plastic rail flexes.
When i first looked at a MP 15-22 They where more $ than now. Even at $300 i feel they are over priced.
if your dead set on iron sights maybe see if you can mount a sight on the barrel?

Oh and remeber to always clean your rifles before you shoot them. I would not be surprised if your bore was coated with a anti rust inhibitor and gumed up the bore?
Theres something really off with your rifle.
i would give up on the sights. Take the end cap out. Clean the barrel. Re install your scope and make sure its mounted correctly. Dont over tighten your mounts or rings. 20inlbs is more than plenty. Then place a large blank piece of card board at 25 yards draw a large + the more level and vertical precise you can get the better. Then place your reticle on the +.Take 10 shots and see what you get for a group. It does not matter where on the paper you get hits. Your looking for groups. DO NOT adjust your scope. Just see if you can get a repeatable group. just a note 2moa at 25 yards is about 1/2" or so.

 

[tuna]

Not sure how big your groups are, but it looks like your S&W groups are about twice as big as your Marlin's? I would go with finicky ammo as the main blame.

Get a bunch of different types of ammo, and follow mac1911's advice above.

My 10/22 will print "patterns" of 5 - 8 inches with Remington ammo. Any other ammo, I can make 10 shot groups that I can cover with my thumb - sometimes our guns can be persnickety.

 

[mac1911]

Not sure how big your groups are, but it looks like your S&W groups are about twice as big as your Marlin's? I would go with finicky ammo as the main blame.

Get a bunch of different types of ammo, and follow mac1911's advice above.

My 10/22 will print "patterns" of 5 - 8 inches with Remington ammo. Any other ammo, I can make 10 shot groups that I can cover with my thumb - sometimes our guns can be persnickety.

I will add. Unless you know what S&W "specs" are you dont know what to expect.
per a email with Marlin about accuracy standard for the XT-22
Its 4moa ....or thier email to me 2" groups at 50 yards.

 

[Matt-CZ]

Received their RMA yesterday morning and handed it off to Fedex that evening. Tracking says arrival in Springfield by today. No idea how long before QA looks at my rifle.

 

[Matt-CZ]

Not sure how big your groups are, but it looks like your S&W groups are about twice as big as your Marlin's? I would go with finicky ammo as the main blame.

Get a bunch of different types of ammo, and follow mac1911's advice above.

My 10/22 will print "patterns" of 5 - 8 inches with Remington ammo. Any other ammo, I can make 10 shot groups that I can cover with my thumb - sometimes our guns can be persnickety.

That group was only the rounds that hit paper, and even then they were quite poor. I didn't have any larger targets, but if only 1/2 are hitting a 4" target at 50 yards, we are at 8+ MOA. Decided against feeding it a buffet sampler of different ammos and just sent it back.

 

[mac1911]

Received their RMA yesterday morning and handed it off to Fedex that evening. Tracking says arrival in Springfield by today. No idea how long before QA looks at my rifle.

Hope they just slap a new upper on it.
When you get it back CLEAN the bore before you shoot it.
Use a good bore solvent, jag and patches. Lightly oil the bore with something that will help prevent rust.
Then take some CCI and try to shoot for groups st 25 yards.
Dont mess with the sights or scope. Just a large blank piece of paper/cardboard. Scribble a dot in the middle and shoot.

In the mean time i would also mount that cheap scope on a known good shooter and see if that has issues. Just to eliminate any variables.

 

[amm5061]

Hope they just slap a new upper on it.
When you get it back CLEAN the bore before you shoot it.
Use a good bore solvent, jag and patches. Lightly oil the bore with something that will help prevent rust.
Then take some CCI and try to shoot for groups st 25 yards.
Dont mess with the sights or scope. Just a large blank piece of paper/cardboard. Scribble a dot in the middle and shoot.

In the mean time i would also mount that cheap scope on a known good shooter and see if that has issues. Just to eliminate any variables.

I'll second. Clean it first!

 

[Matt-CZ]

S&W QA had my rifle Sept 19th. Called today and was told it is awaiting shipment back to me.

A new barrel was installed under warranty. I'll have to wait to receive it to see if there are any notes from the gunsmith.

 

[mac1911]

S&W QA had my time Sept 19th. Called today and was told it is awaiting shipment back to me.

A new barrel was installed under warranty. I'll have to wait to receive it to see if there are any notes from the gunsmith.

Now remember to clean the bore first. Buy a nice jag and some patches. Use a bore cleaner.
When you get home run a wet patch then a dry patch. Then use another wet patch of CLP or other type of rust preventative. When you go to range next run a dry patch.
Stick with one ammo for a while. If you have CCI standard velocity use that.

 

[mac1911]

make sure you clean the new barrel. Few patches of solvent and dry patches. The stick with one ammo for a while.

Did you happen to get out of SW what thier standards are for thd MP22
Also im not far from you if you want to bore scope the barrel

 

[Mtn_Guy]

I’m curious how you make out with the replacement barrel once you receive it back... please keep us posted.

For comparison to your future groups with the new barrel, here is a grouping of 3 rounds after sighting in my Trijicon MRO patrol at 25 yards. I didn’t stretch it out to 50 yards, since it’s philosophy of use is backyard plinking and AR manipulation drills and fun for the kids. This one is the Magpul edition which came with a threaded barrel — the FFL made me pin/weld, so I went with a linear comp to slightly increase backpressure to aid in bolt cycling. It’s only seen about 500 rounds to break it in, but it prefers the high velocity stuff. It likes CCI best and hates Remington golden bucket crap. After sighting it in, I put Browning BPR 40 grain LHP through it off a bench with a leather front bag to see if the accuracy was good enough for chipmunk control...

 

[mac1911]

I’m curious how you make out with the replacement barrel once you receive it back... please keep us posted.

For comparison to your future groups with the new barrel, here is a grouping of 3 rounds after sighting in my Trijicon MRO patrol at 25 yards. I didn’t stretch it out to 50 yards, since it’s philosophy of use is backyard plinking and AR manipulation drills and fun for the kids. This one is the Magpul edition which came with a threaded barrel — the FFL made me pin/weld, so I went with a linear comp to slightly increase backpressure to aid in bolt cycling. It’s only seen about 500 rounds to break it in, but it prefers the high velocity stuff. It likes CCI best and hates Remington golden bucket crap. After sighting it in, I put Browning BPR 40 grain LHP through it off a bench with a leather front bag to see if the accuracy was good enough for chipmunk control...


View attachment 248685 View attachment 248686

or about 2.8 moa, something to gauge by. I still need to get my Tac sol AR upper out for some actual accuracy testing. I set it up to shoot clay targets at 100 yards with a 20 plus year old Tasco ProPoint red dot. Now its time to see what it can do for groups

 

[Matt-CZ]

I received my rifle back from S&W this weekend with a new barrel installed under warranty. Everything was covered by the factory, including shipping, so no complaints there. Took a bit longer than I had hoped, but that's a minor gripe.

Information included with the rifle was very scant. Gunsmith's notes were "Targeting issues". No information beyond that. Not sure if they even confirmed my problem or just took my word for it and replaced the barrel. No info on what the actual defect was.

I cleaned the new barrel before testing. Good amount of oily residue on my first dry patch through.

I'll load a target later, but the rifle seems to be shooting as accurately as I am capable of at 50 yards. I didn't spend much time with it because I forgot my spotting scope at home like an idiot.

I am happy with the purchase. I wish the warranty RMA and turnaround was a bit faster, but I'd call this a good experience all things considered.

Side note: At the recommendation of the salesman at 4 Seasons, I bought federal "Target and Range" high velocity. That ammo sucks. Frequent failures to extract in both the S&W 22 and my marlin 60. Grouping is terrible out of both rifles as well. Luckily, the 15-22 feeds standard velocity Aguilla just fine until it starts to get very dirty. It's easy to clean anyway, so no complaints.

 

[Bmcl322]

Glad you have your S&W 15-22 back. I can't say enough good things about my 15-22. Super accurate and fun to shoot. It likes most ammo, but you may want to try the CCI AR Tactical .22LR 40 grain ammo. 7 cents a round. I'm an okay shot, given my aging eyesight, but I can't miss with that stuff. Wishing you the best at the range!!

 

[mac1911]

Glad you got it back and things are looking good.

Don’t fall into the “specialty” ammo BS
Buy some decent 22lr standard velocity

CCI SV
Aquila super extra SV
SK standard plus
Wolf
Have been some of the overall better choices in my rifles under 8 cents per round.
Shot a box of geco match through the Rem 552 and SW41 and it was decent no fees issues and shot well?

I have other ammo types also.
US Mil contract Remington from 1996 bought through cmp . Stuff is very consistent over the crony and does well in my semi autos
I have some golden eagle (Aquila made) match that’s very good and after that it’s the expensive stuff

 

[92G]

OP-

if you're looking for accuracy beyond ~50 yards I would stick with standard velocity ammo. my experience with supersonic ammo has been that accuracy is quite degraded through trans-sonic barrier. IIRC for most 22LR's coming out at 1200 or so ft/s they reach trans-sonic pretty quickly like 50 yards or so.

 

[mac1911]

if weather agrees with me tomorrow Im running this with some Tenex to see how it does, I mounted a different scope also installed a A1 stock.
I have another lower set up with a RRA entry stock and its a great length for the kids
The red dot was set up for shooting clays and 4" steel at 100 yards.

picked up a few bushnell scopes back in march they had a 30% rebate a while back
trying the AR-22 scope
https://www.amazon.com/Bushnell-Zone-22-Rimfire-Reticle-Riflescope/dp/B00ABP4KNM

 

[TomMontana]

if weather agrees with me tomorrow Im running this with some Tenex to see how it does, I mounted a different scope also installed a A1 stock.
I have another lower set up with a RRA entry stock and its a great length for the kids
The red dot was set up for shooting clays and 4" steel at 100 yards.

Are you getting enough height with that scope set up to allow a good cheek rest? I tried using a cheap scope that I pulled off a 10/22 to use on a AR22 upper. The rings were too low for me to allow a good cheek rest on the stock.

 

[mac1911]

Are you getting enough height with that scope set up to allow a good cheek rest? I tried using a cheap scope that I pulled off a 10/22 to use on a AR22 upper. The rings were too low for me to allow a good cheek rest on the stock.

I seldom have a problem with to low. I’m always looking for ways to get the sights/scope lower.
It’s a vortex mount and IIRC was pushed as a AR mount. ?
Vortex Optics - Sport Cantilever 1-Inch Mount 2-Inch Offset

 

[Mtn_Guy]

How many rounds through the new barrel at this point? What were groups at 50yds like?

Glad to hear it all worked out for you. As an aside, I called S&W not too long after getting my 15-22 because I tried to fit a standard AR ambi safety selector switch on the lower and chewed the polymer safety detent to the point where I didn’t get any positive engagement. They promptly sent me two replacements. I ended up replacing it for the Battle Arms Development ambi switch, but I thought S&W’s customer service was solid.

Happy shooting!