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NFA Rules?
- Thread starter Splitrip
- Start date
Two more questions....
1) How hard is it to get the form 4 signed by the police chief, sheriff, etc? Does anyone have personal experiences with this?
2) My cousin is on SWAT and he told me that by having the form 4 approved you are waiving your right to the 4th ammendment, meaning that the ATF can come into your home at any time without a warrant to see if you still possess the NFA weapon. Is this true?
1) How hard is it to get the form 4 signed by the police chief, sheriff, etc? Does anyone have personal experiences with this?
2) My cousin is on SWAT and he told me that by having the form 4 approved you are waiving your right to the 4th ammendment, meaning that the ATF can come into your home at any time without a warrant to see if you still possess the NFA weapon. Is this true?
F
Finalygotabeltfed
Yes, you must submit print cards with your form.
A form 4 must be submitted with two pictures attached, signed by you, signed by your chief of police or other chief law enforcement in your city or town of residence, two fingerprint cards, a citizenship declaration form, a two hundred dollar check and in Mass, a copy of your MG license if its a machinegun transfer. For an SBR, the copy of license is not needed.
Your cousin is incorrect. Unannounced ATF inspections for NFA applies to FFL licensees/dealers, not individuals. Your 4th ammendment rights remain intact.
If you are out and about with an NFA gun, you must produce a registration form to an ATF agent on demand. Also, your NFA can be held by other LEO until you produce a registration form. Best to carry a copy with the gun and avoid any hassle.
Are buying or making the SBR? If making it, you need to submit a form 1, not form 4.
As for difficulty getting the form signed, its up to your chief. There is no requirement for them to sign in Mass. Some states do require the CLEO to sign NFA forms if the individual is not disqualified.
A form 4 must be submitted with two pictures attached, signed by you, signed by your chief of police or other chief law enforcement in your city or town of residence, two fingerprint cards, a citizenship declaration form, a two hundred dollar check and in Mass, a copy of your MG license if its a machinegun transfer. For an SBR, the copy of license is not needed.
Your cousin is incorrect. Unannounced ATF inspections for NFA applies to FFL licensees/dealers, not individuals. Your 4th ammendment rights remain intact.
If you are out and about with an NFA gun, you must produce a registration form to an ATF agent on demand. Also, your NFA can be held by other LEO until you produce a registration form. Best to carry a copy with the gun and avoid any hassle.
Are buying or making the SBR? If making it, you need to submit a form 1, not form 4.
As for difficulty getting the form signed, its up to your chief. There is no requirement for them to sign in Mass. Some states do require the CLEO to sign NFA forms if the individual is not disqualified.
There are three ways to legally manufacture an SBR.
1) You can apply as the owner and you will have to submit a form 1, submit fingerprints, get your CLEO's signature, etc.
2) You can create a Revokable trust and the Trust will 'own' the SBR and you as 'Trustee' will be authorized to possess and use the SBR. To create a Revocable Trust, purchase a copy of Quicken’s Willmaker at any Walmart; I believe it costs $35 or you can buy it online from http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/6E9ED903-C9B4-42E0-9C2E235DD87A0A8A/309/ for $40. Once you install the software, a wizard will ask you a set of questions and in 10 minutes you have a Trust document. You will most likely name the trust the 'Enter Your Name Here' Revocable Trust and name yourself as the Trustee. Once you have the trust completed, print at least 3 copies and get them all notarized, keep two originals in separate locations and send the 3rd to the ATF with your Form 1 application.
The benefit of a trust is that the Revocable Trust you created is considered by the ATF as the ‘owner’ of the suppressor and as trustee of the trust, you havefull use of the suppressor. Another benefit is the ATF does not require you to submit fingerprints and you can also omit the CLEO signoff. Finally, the form gets approved faster since the ATF does not perform a background check - since you can't check the background of a Trust.
I created a trust after learning about the process on AR15.com and now I have a number of class 3 items.
3) Establish a corporation and the corporation can purchase / make the SBR. Similar to a trust, although you have to pay annual fees to keep the Corp alive. I believe a trust is easier to maintain b/c it's revokable (you can amend it at any time) and there are no fees to keep it alive. However, if you already have a Corporation then this route may be easy.
With regard to securing signoff, it really depends on your CLEO. When I started collecting I was in Holden and my CLEO was very helpful and eventually we were able to get me a green card (we had a few iterations after the state rejected my app since I didn't have a C&R to prove I was a bona fide collector - this was 4 years ago). You always run the risk that you can't get a future signature if you get a new chief which is another reason I went with a Trust.
Also, rest assured the ATF won't be knocking on your door to inspect your paperwork. As stated earlier, it doesn't apply to citizens. You can find more detail and the ATF downloads on AR15.com in the class 3 section (many detailed Q&A threads).
Good luck.
1) You can apply as the owner and you will have to submit a form 1, submit fingerprints, get your CLEO's signature, etc.
2) You can create a Revokable trust and the Trust will 'own' the SBR and you as 'Trustee' will be authorized to possess and use the SBR. To create a Revocable Trust, purchase a copy of Quicken’s Willmaker at any Walmart; I believe it costs $35 or you can buy it online from http://www.nolo.com/product.cfm/objectID/6E9ED903-C9B4-42E0-9C2E235DD87A0A8A/309/ for $40. Once you install the software, a wizard will ask you a set of questions and in 10 minutes you have a Trust document. You will most likely name the trust the 'Enter Your Name Here' Revocable Trust and name yourself as the Trustee. Once you have the trust completed, print at least 3 copies and get them all notarized, keep two originals in separate locations and send the 3rd to the ATF with your Form 1 application.
The benefit of a trust is that the Revocable Trust you created is considered by the ATF as the ‘owner’ of the suppressor and as trustee of the trust, you havefull use of the suppressor. Another benefit is the ATF does not require you to submit fingerprints and you can also omit the CLEO signoff. Finally, the form gets approved faster since the ATF does not perform a background check - since you can't check the background of a Trust.
I created a trust after learning about the process on AR15.com and now I have a number of class 3 items.
3) Establish a corporation and the corporation can purchase / make the SBR. Similar to a trust, although you have to pay annual fees to keep the Corp alive. I believe a trust is easier to maintain b/c it's revokable (you can amend it at any time) and there are no fees to keep it alive. However, if you already have a Corporation then this route may be easy.
With regard to securing signoff, it really depends on your CLEO. When I started collecting I was in Holden and my CLEO was very helpful and eventually we were able to get me a green card (we had a few iterations after the state rejected my app since I didn't have a C&R to prove I was a bona fide collector - this was 4 years ago). You always run the risk that you can't get a future signature if you get a new chief which is another reason I went with a Trust.
Also, rest assured the ATF won't be knocking on your door to inspect your paperwork. As stated earlier, it doesn't apply to citizens. You can find more detail and the ATF downloads on AR15.com in the class 3 section (many detailed Q&A threads).
Good luck.
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Hey thanks for the help. It just goes to show even if you're SWAT you can still know SQUAT.
I like the idea of a trust, especially if I dont have to worry about the CLEO signing my form. I'm on my way to Wal-Mart to buy the software right now.
What are the limitations, if any, that you can have on your weapon? Can you have a short barrel and sound/flash suppressors, triple round burst, etc. all on the same weapon?
Is it true that only military and police can have triple round bursts and full auto post 86?
Also, I have heard that the form 1 takes longer to process than the form 4. Is this true?
And if I plan on buying a complete custom upper that is fully assembled I just use the form 4 right?
I like the idea of a trust, especially if I dont have to worry about the CLEO signing my form. I'm on my way to Wal-Mart to buy the software right now.
What are the limitations, if any, that you can have on your weapon? Can you have a short barrel and sound/flash suppressors, triple round burst, etc. all on the same weapon?
Is it true that only military and police can have triple round bursts and full auto post 86?
Also, I have heard that the form 1 takes longer to process than the form 4. Is this true?
And if I plan on buying a complete custom upper that is fully assembled I just use the form 4 right?
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F
Finalygotabeltfed
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In Mass, only a licensed manufacturer (type 07 SOT), military or LEO can possess a suppressor.
Unless you are one of the above, the transfer of a can will not go through.
You cannot add burst control to a rifle(SBR or not) as it constitutes making a new machinegun.
If you buy a short barrelled upper, you file a form 1 and pay the $200 "making" tax to put it on your receiver.
Got to www.atf.gov and read the FAQs, subsection M. under the firearms heading.
Form 1's and 4's take about the same amount of time. They are done by the same examiner at the ATF to whom it is assigned, according to the first letter in the last name of the applicant or transferor respectively.
File the paperwork and call four weeks later to check the status. Last form 4 filed here took about seven weeks. Don't get in a hurry.
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ranger4-7
Army Veteran
The rifle will also need to be engraved with the name and location of the manufacturer of the sbr. Of course you also have to wait for the approved form to be sent back with the stamp before you can assemble the rifle.
If going the trust route, I was always told to get a NFA trust rather than a Revocable trust.
Not sure what you get with the NFA trust over the Revocable trust.
I was also told to stay away from the legal software such as Quicken will or Legalzoom.com (especially being in MASS).
Is it better to have a lawyer draft up the documents rather than Quicken? Just to CYA.....?
Not sure what you get with the NFA trust over the Revocable trust.
I was also told to stay away from the legal software such as Quicken will or Legalzoom.com (especially being in MASS).
Is it better to have a lawyer draft up the documents rather than Quicken? Just to CYA.....?
