I don't have a problem with gays in the military. But is this a precursor to gender equality in the armed services? By which I mean women in the infantry, special forces, etc. Not sure how I feel about that. I guess the Israelis do it.
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Obama to end Don't ask, Don't tell
- Thread starter News Shooter
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Whatever Obama ends up doing I think he needs to not listen to the public as much as he needs to listen to who this effects, the troops, both gay and straight. They are the ones that at the end of the day have to live with the policy.
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Well, I think this news report really covers the issue well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aotlEpmAFVQ&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aotlEpmAFVQ&feature=channel
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wolf223
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
... that's just messed up.
M
MACGYVR
I just don't see how effective gay troops would be in high heels and pink mesh shirts. [ROFL]
Just kidding. I don't see what the big problem is. If they are trained properly they should be a fighting machine that can kill the enemy just as well as the guy next to him.
Just kidding. I don't see what the big problem is. If they are trained properly they should be a fighting machine that can kill the enemy just as well as the guy next to him.
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To be honest, I have mixed feelings about this and I'm in my 13th year of military service. I don't want open gays serving but it also really upsets me right before deployment where you have one or two come forward saying that they're gay. Course, I had a smart XO who always told them to prove it to him!
It seems that one of the worries is gays who "flaunt" it; does anyone really think that the small percentage of the gay population who would join the military and be willing to die for their country are the same small percentage of the gay population who flaunts it?
I mean, being in the military is not some cakewalk job that anyone will succeed at.
I'm sure there will be SOME examples, but there are also SOME examples of hyper-masculine fools who disgrace the service.
I mean, being in the military is not some cakewalk job that anyone will succeed at.
I'm sure there will be SOME examples, but there are also SOME examples of hyper-masculine fools who disgrace the service.
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They don't call it prejudice for nothing. Until gays can serve openly, you can't prove that the problem they are concerned with is not a huge problem.
You mix with gays in HS, you mix with gays in college, you mix with gays in life.
DADT was not always forgiving. Here and there some self-righteous officer would go on the prowl to get gays out of his command. It also damaged the services from time to time, e.g. with forcing Arabic translators out.
The services aren't doing so well with the man/woman thing, either.
DADT was not always forgiving. Here and there some self-righteous officer would go on the prowl to get gays out of his command. It also damaged the services from time to time, e.g. with forcing Arabic translators out.
The services aren't doing so well with the man/woman thing, either.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Oh, you can't just leave it like that, Sue! Did they have a big fight, or did they decide to demonstrate to the world, loudly, that they were lovers?
Anyway... I never served, as you all know. That said, I've certainly belonged to public gyms, changed and showered in locker rooms at school, etc, and I certainly never worried that anyone in the shower was gay or not.
Who cares? If they're good troops and their fellow soldiers know that they can count on them, isn't that what's important?
Oh, you can't just leave it like that, Sue! Did they have a big fight, or did they decide to demonstrate to the world, loudly, that they were lovers?
Anyway... I never served, as you all know. That said, I've certainly belonged to public gyms, changed and showered in locker rooms at school, etc, and I certainly never worried that anyone in the shower was gay or not.
Who cares? If they're good troops and their fellow soldiers know that they can count on them, isn't that what's important?
Lets just say there were interesting remarks coming from the First SGT that morning, and after that they were downstairs in the CO's office and shortly there after gone.
There are certain units in the military that are not made up of what some people would call "a cross section of society". These units are filled with men who join the unit with hopes and expectations of killing bad guys, lots of bad guys. There are some men in these units who don't like the idea of spending months in the field and sleeping next to homosexuals. There are some guys like me that don't care, however the current system works.
Why you would risk degrading unit cohesion and combat effectiveness to satisfy a very small percentage of population is beyond me.
Jim,sometimes you know, sometimes you don't know. We all knew the E-7 I worked for was gay. He never flaunted it, but I was also not in a combat arms unit.
I personally don't care if you are gay or straight, but I am also not sure I would want to walk into a barracks room and see two gay or lesbians going at it.
Leave things the way they are and don't rock the boat.
I personally don't care if you are gay or straight, but I am also not sure I would want to walk into a barracks room and see two gay or lesbians going at it.
Leave things the way they are and don't rock the boat.
Like I said I don't have a problem with but I know there are a lot of others in combat MOS's that do.
The system works now. We are very effective why change?
The system works now. We are very effective why change?
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wolf223
I'm on my cell phone it auto corrected mos's to moses I guess.
You just made the list pal.
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wolf223
I understood MOSes, I put "change" in bold.... ![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
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This isn't going to end well but here goes...
Because hetero's have cornered the market on killing.
I must agree, there have been times in the past where unit cohesion around a particular characteristic has proven remarkably successful. Imagine what would have happened if they were forced to fly alongside people who were not like them.
But this comes from one of the monday morning quarter backs so what do I know.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Because hetero's have cornered the market on killing.
I must agree, there have been times in the past where unit cohesion around a particular characteristic has proven remarkably successful. Imagine what would have happened if they were forced to fly alongside people who were not like them.
But this comes from one of the monday morning quarter backs so what do I know.
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I don't recall stating any where about gays not being able to kill or be effective in the military. I hope you are not missing my point on the type of A personality that is in these combat units.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
So would that mean that now, with DADT out of the picture, that the military would have to consider sexual orientation when making up a unit, or figuring out who to transfer where? (I'm not trying to be a wiseass here, I'm genuinely curious. Just because I don't care who is what doesn't mean that I don't recognize that there are a lot of people who do care.)
I wouldn't want to walk into a barracks room and see two straights going at it, either! There's a time and place for things, and right out in public is NOT a good thing for that.
I agree with that also Ross. I wouldn't want to either. Heck I was locked out of my room one night when my room mate decide to screw my boss.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Personally it shouldn't matter, but it will at some level. Like I said I was not in a Combat Arms unit where to alot it will make a difference.
Certain units you have to go through and pass courses. If you get selected to go and you pass the course you get assigned, I don't think they would discriminate because of sexual orientation. However once that person was moved to a unit and it was creating an issue with other members of that unit the unit commander would have to decide who he is moving where.
I really don't think the gay guys who are in the military now are going to come out because of this policy change. I just found out a few weeks ago that one of the guys I knew on base was gay. He was the General's Driver. He chose to keep it to himself for 20 years. That is literally the only one that I ever knew in the military.
I really don't think as a whole this is going to affect the military, but I am quite certain it will create some issues in some units if a gay man chose to acknowledge he in fact is gay.
The current system is far insofar it's not discriminatory.
Any unacceptable sexual conduct, homosexual or heterosexual, should be treated equally.
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