Open Guns

TheRoland

TheRoland

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So in the long-term hypothetical future, I'm thinking of shooting USPSA Open class. It will probably be after I make Master in IDPA SSP, which is going to take a year or more at this rate[wink], but I figure it's never too early to make plans.

So, what's up with Open guns? 38 Super, Supercomp, or 9mm Major? 1911 or Glock based? For 1911s, all double-stack models, I assume?

What about lengths? I was surprised to see that the 6" 1911 don't seem like the most popular, and that 4 and 4.5" are actually common. Why not the extra length?

Any trick to avoid 100+ dollar magazines? I like having disposable magazines, and that seems like a no-go for open guns.

Anything else someone planning on starting out should know?
 
Great questions. I also am interested in this and would like to add.

How do the mags comply with the hiCap mag laws in MA? Are the mags preban conversions?
 
38 super 38 super comp allow for more powder options making it easier to tune the load to the gun. Also super/comp is more reliable. The rounds stack better and are since there are fewer manufacturers, the cases are more consistent. This is very important when the ejection angle is very narrow because of the scope mount. You can run a 90* mount or a smaller C-More, aimpoint and not have the clearance issue.

5" Open guns are smoother, easier to make major, but are slightly slower to transition. 4.5" shorties are violent and twitchy, but transition quickly. I started with a shorty and went to a fullsize.

Mags cost what they cost, no way around it

definitely try different guns before you buy, barrel length, different loads, comps, slide cuts make the gun feel different
 
Shoot different guns and see which one you like best. I started out with a shorty and ended up going to a full size. 9 Major is awesome, you don't have to worry about trying to find your brass after every stage and there is tons of it at the range.

I am sure if you go to a USPSA match all the open guys would be more than willing to let you shoot thier guns. PM me before one of the matches or meet me at the range and you can try mine.
 
I just went through the same experience so I'll share my point of view. I would pick the platform first then pick the caliber. Glock, XD, EAA, M&P, S_I's are all options depending on budget, goals, preferences. Its actually really helpful to shoot as many guns as you can to get a feeling for what you like and dislike. The polymer guns are cheaper to get into but somewhat more difficult to get running correctly. Balancing comp weight, PF, springs, etc takes some trial and error unless you have the gun built for you. With S_I's, a 6" gun + comp would be really long & heavy which is why you don't see too many out there. You'll see most in the full size or 4.x" range. The shorties and full size do shoot a little differently and each has its +/-. No real trick to avoid the expensive mags. An FT_ of any sorts can ruin a match so IMO its worth the extra bucks to know that your mags are tuned and running as well as they can. If you aren't planning on being competitive then a new stock STI mag is only in the $45 range.

As for caliber, again this is a decision point. 38 Super and Supercomp are basically the same. Comp can be a little more reliable in terms of less jams and stuffing a magazine. With 38 Super(comp) you have more choices for powder, bullet combinations, etc. Downside is the brass costs a bunch more and can be hard to get - but you can reload it 8+ times. This is why 38S shooters are picking up their brass as soon as they stop shooting a stage. :) 9 Major is cheaper brass wise, short list of powders that work well, and only reloadable 2-3 times due to primer pocket expansion. Its really not worth picking up 9 Major brass. In the long run, I think both tend to equal out in cost so its down to personal preference.

The last thing to consider is what you want to use as an optic. Micro's, aimpoints, and c-mores are all choices. Slide mounted or on a mount is another choice. If you want to buy a used gun, end of season seems to be the best time as people shed their guns in prep for next year.
 
Here's my 2 cents as someone that will likely go to play Open in the future- look at what the good shooters are using and try it out. Why reinvent the wheel? I plan on going STI with Super Comp. I haven't gone to Open yet until some of the markings for brass open up... too hard to find a new design. ;)
 
I know the 2011 framed open guns are the most popular but since you are shooting SSP I am guessing you are used to a polymer framed platform? It might be worth looking into one of the similar open guns (Glock for example) which will end up being about half of what you will spend on a decent steel open gun (the mags are also cheap). This way you can see if you enjoy shooting formula one without breaking the bank. If you decide that Open is not for you or you want to switch to another platform, it is not difficult to get back the little money you have into it. In my opinion they are not hard to get and keep running, and no matter what people say they shoot pretty darn well if you do your part too.
 
Jay6 said:
I know the 2011 framed open guns are the most popular but since you are shooting SSP I am guessing you are used to a polymer framed platform? It might be worth looking into one of the similar open guns (Glock for example) which will end up being about half of what you will spend on a decent steel open gun (the mags are also cheap). This way you can see if you enjoy shooting formula one without breaking the bank. If you decide that Open is not for you or you want to switch to another platform, it is not difficult to get back the little money you have into it. In my opinion they are not hard to get and keep running, and no matter what people say they shoot pretty darn well if you do your part too.
Click to expand...

I've never seen you run into a problem with your gun Jay- did you build it all by yourself?
 
Next important issue: How do you convince your wife that you need a 3500$ gun and $1000+ worth of magazines, pouches, holsters, etc?
 
Besides...you can probably pick up a gently used gun for 2-2.5k, maybe even with mags.
Budget is becoming more workable as we speak.
[cheers]
 
Steve_P said:
Besides...you can probably pick up a gently used gun for 2-2.5k, maybe even with mags.
Budget is becoming more workable as we speak.
[cheers]
Click to expand...

A couple open guns on the site dedicated to competition in that range, one with only 100 rounds fired.
 
There are lots of preban mags available for most platforms. I shoot a Caspian hi-cap myself that came with 9 19 round mags and a 26 round weld together. I got the gun, mags, holster, pouches, belt, some ammo, and a bunch of brass for around $1500. This was a bunch of years ago and it helped that the previous owner had shuffled off this mortal coil.............
Deals can be found if you look.

Michael.
 
This is a cool thread, but quick question, what is 9MM major? Is it a different round then the standard 9mm, or is it just the way you load it?
 
Oh ok, thanks for the answer!

I will go back to work and catch back up on this thread with more questions when I get home.
 
I shot limited division for a long time before I jumped into open.

My 2 cents: You can't shoot open on a budget if you want to win. If you want to know what works and what doesn't, go to matches in this area and talk to the guys that do it week in week out. Check out USPSA archives and look at the gear that the Open GM's use at the USPSA Nationals. These guys don't use anything that's not 100% reliable.

There are some great deals on used guns but I strongly suggest that you stick with guns built by name 'smiths. If not - make sure it has a track record for reliability that you can confirm. I would also suggest that if you buy used - send it to the 'smith that built it. They will go over it, fix what's broken, bring it up to current spec and technology. I purchased a used pistol a couple of years ago and I recently sent it to the builder because of a problem. Turns out I had a couple of incorrect parts related to the cartridge I use. They also did a bunch of work that brought it up to new specs. I won't mention the 'smith until I know the pistol is working 100% because I just got it back - but for the guys that know me, I want to say that these people really take care of their customers - they were outstanding. I should've done it when I bought it.

Tuned mags are worth their weight in gold. If mags are not correct your gun will not be reliable. It only takes one malf to cost you a match in Open.

Personally, I think supercomp is the way to go. I've used super and supercomp. Supercomp stacks better in the mag, feeds smoothly, strips from the mags much more smoothly than super, but a couple of the best shooters in the section (and NE for that matter) shoot super so YMMV.

Supermoto has tried all the dots but I like C-More. They are used by most GM's, can be attached to many different mounts and the company has great customer service.
 
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Lugnut said:
I've never seen you run into a problem with your gun Jay- did you build it all by yourself?
Click to expand...

No, SJC built it. I love that it is the same exact feel/platform for Open/Limited/Production. I can switch back and forth and just have to worry about the change in sight focus.

The only problem is I do a ton of dryfire so I am now learning the parts that need to be replaced a few times a year to keep it running 100% (mostly springs).
 
scottb said:
I shot limited division for a long time before I jumped into open.

My 2 cents: You can't shoot open on a budget if you want to win. If you want to know what works and what doesn't, go to matches in this area and talk to the guys that do it week in week out. Check out USPSA archives and look at the gear that the Open GM's use at the USPSA Nationals. These guys don't use anything that's not 100% reliable.

There are some great deals on used guns but I strongly suggest that you stick with guns built by name 'smiths. If not - make sure it has a track record for reliability that you can confirm. I would also suggest that if you buy used - send it to the 'smith that built it. They will go over it, fix what's broken, bring it up to current spec and technology. I purchased a used pistol a couple of years ago and I recently sent it to the builder because of a problem. Turns out I had a couple of incorrect parts related to the cartridge I use. They also did a bunch of work that brought it up to new specs. I won't mention the 'smith until I know the pistol is working 100% because I just got it back - but for the guys that know me, I want to say that these people really take care of their customers - they were outstanding. I should've done it when I bought it.

Tuned mags are worth their weight in gold. If mags are not correct your gun will not be reliable. It only takes one malf to cost you a match in Open.

Personally, I think supercomp is the way to go. I've used super and supercomp. Supercomp stacks better in the mag, feeds smoothly, strips from the mags much more smoothly than super, but a couple of the best shooters in the section (and NE for that matter) shoot super so YMMV.

Supermoto has tried all the dots but I like C-More. They are used by most GM's, can be attached to many different mounts and the company has great customer service.
Click to expand...

I think Comp feeds better, but super extracts better. And after trying all the sights, the c-more is by far the best
 
I remember this open gun [smile]

05lg.jpg
 
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edmorseiii said:
This is a cool thread, but quick question, what is 9MM major? Is it a different round then the standard 9mm, or is it just the way you load it?
Click to expand...

Major 9MM would be 9MM+P+++! Same case, more powder.
Click to expand...

To give you an example, the M&P open gun I built is in 9mm Major. It takes 8.6grains of HS6 to get to ~170PF with a 115. The powder is pretty close to the top of the case. The bullet is leaving the barrel around ~1500 fps.
 
zerodown said:
To give you an example, the M&P open gun I built is in 9mm Major. It takes 8.6grains of HS6 to get to ~170PF with a 115. The powder is pretty close to the top of the case. The bullet is leaving the barrel around ~1500 fps.
Click to expand...

What are the advantages of the 9mm Major over a regular 9mm or the "powder puff" loads?
 
meth0d said:
What are the advantages of the 9mm Major over a regular 9mm or the "powder puff" loads?
Click to expand...

9mm does not make major. the weight of the bullet x the speed needs to be over 165,000. the only way you can make it with 9mm is to fill it with a lot of powder. Also the 9mm doesn't generate enough gas and pressure to really work a comp

If you use a 125gr bullet, you don't need to push the bullet as fast as a 115, but if you go up to a 147, then you don't have enough gas.
 
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