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Opinions on .22 for personal deffense
- Thread starter JAMMIN
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One other thing that I'm not sure has been brough up is reliability. All stopping power debates aside, I've never had a round in any caliber, fail to fire or eject out of any gun more than the .22 cal (regardless of brand) as a whole in any gun. The loading of the round is just not consitant enough for me to trust it to go bang every time... because it doesn't. I've seen some brands FTF up to 3 times per 50... That's pretty poor odds. If you're going to trust your life to something... at least make sure it is reliable. I can't imagine much worse than drawing to fire and hearing 'click' Now you're doing failure drills (unless it's a revolver) to hopefully save your life (assuming the round will stop the attacker) I'm all set with using a .22 as a defense round... Unless of course the squirrels mount an invasion. ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Good info. I wonder if the "box of truth" guy has tried this test.
So in that case, a 410 shotgun derringer?
Edited to add:
I also hear the .32 Magnum is pretty decent if a .38 is too much or too big. Hey, just saw this: WTS: S&W .32Mag snubby with laser grips
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If they were available in MA, I'd like a Kahr MK9 or maybe MK40 or the Kel-Tec PF9 or the Taurus 24/7. I guess I'd need to see/try them before making a final decision. They all get good reviews. Oh, might as well throw in the S&W M&P compact and the Springfield XD as well. As far as revolvers, my preference would be for a .357 snub or maybe a .41 or .44 from either S&W, Charter2000, or Taurus; but again, those are not all available here.
I wish we had some sort of consumer advocate or ombudsman we could turn to so these unfair business practices can be fixed. Wait a second...
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The Goose
NES Member
This seems to be one of those topics that pops up again and again. So here is my .02. Several years back I had a Seecamp .32 which I often carried. One Saturday night my wife and I were on our way home after visiting with friends and I got lost. We ended up in a really bad neighborhood at between 2:00 - 3:00 AM. I was even nervous about pulling over to read my street map, we were praying for a police officer to ask directions from. At one point I blew through a red light because a group of guys started pounding on the car. I remember my wife looking at me in terror and asking "Please tell me that you are carrying?!" and with false bravado doing my best Rocky impression I replied (with gusto) "Absolutely". However, as I contemplated that little Seecamp I was not overly optimistic in my heart. We made it safely home and the next day I sold the Seecamp.
Since then I never carry anything less then a .38 j frame, although more often a Model 60 .357 and/or a .45 1911. Whenever I have a momentary lapse of judgement and begin considering a mouse gun I flash back to that night and how vulnerable I felt. Frankly, a .44 magnum might have felt small.
An old Korean gentleman once told me that during the Korean War he always wanted an M1 carbine during training because it was light and easy to carry, but when he got into combat he wanted a Garand. In his broken English and with much gesturing he managed to explain that the Garand did not feel so heavy when he was faced with another armed man trying to kill him.
Since then I never carry anything less then a .38 j frame, although more often a Model 60 .357 and/or a .45 1911. Whenever I have a momentary lapse of judgement and begin considering a mouse gun I flash back to that night and how vulnerable I felt. Frankly, a .44 magnum might have felt small.
An old Korean gentleman once told me that during the Korean War he always wanted an M1 carbine during training because it was light and easy to carry, but when he got into combat he wanted a Garand. In his broken English and with much gesturing he managed to explain that the Garand did not feel so heavy when he was faced with another armed man trying to kill him.
If someone broke into my house to cause harm to me or my family and I missed with all the .40 ammo I have on hand for my XD-40 (about 700 or 800 rounds), and I couldn't get to one of my rifles or shotguns in time, I wouldn't hesitate to break out my 22/45.
It's an option, but it would be my last option.
It's an option, but it would be my last option.
If you do have to ventilate the bag guy with your 22/45, be sure to pepper him with all ten Mass. compliant shots!
I live in NH.
Up here we can shoot bad guys more than 10 times before reloading.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Up here we can shoot bad guys more than 10 times before reloading.
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Do any of you guys worry about hearing damage from those big calibers? I've heard that one shot from a .40 if you're inside will cause permanent damage to your hearing (not to mention your wife, kids, and any other bystanders if they happen to be around). I once fired 10 rounds from a p22 without hearing protection and my ears rang for 3 hours after that! I carry an sp101 in .38 special which I feel confident about. How would I feel if I shot some creep climbing through my daughter's bedroom window (by the way, there is a level 3 sex offender delivering newspapers in my area) and she needed a hearing aid after that because I thought I needed the power of a .357?
I think hearing damage is possible but losing some hearing is peanuts compared
to being dead, or watching some dirtbag do something harmful to a loved
one. If you ever find yourself in a position where you NEED to use a
firearm, you need the gun to work.... almost everything else is
secondary. In after action reports many people don't even recall hearing
the shots, although damage may still have occured. I read one case where
an officer fired a 357 snub in a car against a carjacker and had
some damage to his hearing afterward, especially in one ear. I'd place a
fair wager though that if he had to do it again he probably would.
Any handgun worth defending yourself with probably can/will cause
hearing damage. It just comes with the territory, not much you can
do about it. Even a 22LR handgun can cause hearing damage.
I remember I left the range once and some asshat opened up with his
22 revolver faster than I thought, and while my ears didnt ring, it still
was obnoxiously loud.
-Mike
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If a couple of cylinders of .357 magnum or magazines of .45ACP without hearing protection caused noticeable hearing loss, I would have been stone deaf before I entered my teens. Shooting without ear protection will cause damage, but nothing that would result in needing a hearing aid before 50-100K rounds or so.
Ken
Ken
pdm
NES Member
Is there any appreciable difference in the damage to one ear over the other? I've already got (unrelated to shooting) loss in one, and it's on my dominant side, so I've always wondered if it would have less of a noticeable impact on me.
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My key concern is that it's risky to your hearing to shoot inside a confined space (such as in a house or a car). I guess what I was really wondering is if anyone besides me considers the noise level a factor in their ccw choice. I don't think permanent hearing damage is something that should be trivialized too much. Then again, perhaps my info is wrong and you could shoot a few mags in your closet and be fine the next day? But have you considered that immediately after firing a shot it might be awfully useful to have some hearing ability for determining if the threat is over and whatnot? Just throwing it out there...
We could all live in England and kill each other with sticks and knives like the primitive days. If someone is whacked enough to murder do you think that banning guns in this state is going to stop them. The murders will become more graphic and horriphic. Can't get a gun buy a chain saw a Home Depot! f***em, Lousiville Slugger will now be Smith & Wesson. People are screwed up and will allways be screwed you can't take the animalism out of the animal. Wether I use my .22 or my .223 as long as I pump enough effective rounds into there face screwum.
WRT the hearing issue. I've heard that under a high-pressure situation like a home invasion, the adrenaline in your body produces an effect called auditory exclusion. This is mainly a psychological effect, but it is also manefested in a physical response due to the epniephrine in your body causing blood vessels in and around your ear to contract. This is almost like a built-in hearing protection.
One negative of this is that it's often hard to hear when the bad guy wants to surrender, or more worringly hear the cops arrive.
One negative of this is that it's often hard to hear when the bad guy wants to surrender, or more worringly hear the cops arrive.
I know a couple of folks that carry .22 mag for self defense, and they seem to be comfortable with it. Both are old salts.
In terms of hearing loss, there are a lot of misconceptions out there. When my daughter was born with a hearing loss, we naturally learned a lot more about it. She got her first set of hearing aids when she was 4 months old. People assume that hearing loss is easily measured in terms of percentage, like you lost 30% of your hearing. That is an antiquated, borderline useless measurement.
Today we can measure things far more accurately, and go by threshold of hearing. That is the level at which a hearing impaired person can first hear something at a given frequency. More about frequency in a moment. Most people's threshold of hearing is around 0 - 5 decibels. If my threshold is 5 decibels and yours is 15, I will hear rustling leaves making a 10 decibel noise, but you won't. We will both hear a faucet running at 20 decibels, but to you it would sound very faint.
Now we need to consider frequency. The range that people is hear is around 20 - 20,000 hertz. 20 Hz would be the lowest bass you could pick up, and 20,000 hz would be the highest pitch that you can hear. Your threshold at one frequency can differ from your threshold at another frequency.
For example, a vacuum cleaner registers about 80 decibels, but my daughter's threshold at that frequency is about 60-65 decibels. She can hear a vacuum cleaner that is 3 feet away, but it's as loud to her as the kitchen faucet would be to you.
At the frequencies used in human speech, her threshold is 35 for deep voices and about 50 for higher voices. That is why she requires more amplification at higher frequencies.
For those who are still reading, how does this apply to gunshots? Gunshots are going to wreck high frequency hearing first, since the lower frequency hearing cells are a little better protected. While the loudness (expressed in decibels) is a major factor in damage, so is the repetition.
In other words, hearing a gunshot will do some damage, but using your snowblower every winter and a chainsaw in the spring and a leafblower every fall will most likely do more.
A single loud sound has more temp damage and less permanent damage. Repetitive noises at 75 db for year will be all permanent and no temporary damage. Once your hearing is gone, it's gone.
Today we can measure things far more accurately, and go by threshold of hearing. That is the level at which a hearing impaired person can first hear something at a given frequency. More about frequency in a moment. Most people's threshold of hearing is around 0 - 5 decibels. If my threshold is 5 decibels and yours is 15, I will hear rustling leaves making a 10 decibel noise, but you won't. We will both hear a faucet running at 20 decibels, but to you it would sound very faint.
Now we need to consider frequency. The range that people is hear is around 20 - 20,000 hertz. 20 Hz would be the lowest bass you could pick up, and 20,000 hz would be the highest pitch that you can hear. Your threshold at one frequency can differ from your threshold at another frequency.
For example, a vacuum cleaner registers about 80 decibels, but my daughter's threshold at that frequency is about 60-65 decibels. She can hear a vacuum cleaner that is 3 feet away, but it's as loud to her as the kitchen faucet would be to you.
At the frequencies used in human speech, her threshold is 35 for deep voices and about 50 for higher voices. That is why she requires more amplification at higher frequencies.
For those who are still reading, how does this apply to gunshots? Gunshots are going to wreck high frequency hearing first, since the lower frequency hearing cells are a little better protected. While the loudness (expressed in decibels) is a major factor in damage, so is the repetition.
In other words, hearing a gunshot will do some damage, but using your snowblower every winter and a chainsaw in the spring and a leafblower every fall will most likely do more.
A single loud sound has more temp damage and less permanent damage. Repetitive noises at 75 db for year will be all permanent and no temporary damage. Once your hearing is gone, it's gone.
Maybe we should ask all the people that have been killed by .22's.
Average gunfight is what, 9ft away and over in three seconds? I'd say being able to put holes in the guy is more important than the size of the holes.
I carry a .45
Average gunfight is what, 9ft away and over in three seconds? I'd say being able to put holes in the guy is more important than the size of the holes.
I carry a .45
Well i'm sure bigger is better but, besides my rifles and shotguns i bought a p22 as my first hand gun cause for one ammo's cheap and i like to shoot a lot, and for another it's a good small gun to start with. Over the last year of shooting it i've become quite a shot, and it's hard to belive that it would take more than a few nicely placed rounds to stop someone. Being of small build, 130lbs soaking wet with clothes on, it's an easy gun to carry and conceal. Hope i'll never have to try for real, but i'll just keep my skills in check.
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This is a smart man. You can also save money when you train with it. If you shoot someone with any gun several times they will fall. And think, a .22 is a slower M4, same bullet, less powder.
Yea... no. There is no comparison between 5.56 and .22lr. What kind of misguided thinking is this? At the end of the day more people have been killed by .22s than any other caliber. But that being said they lack allot of penetration and have very little stopping power in less you get a great incapacitating shot. If the person is wearing heavy clothing it just isn't going to work, I wouldn't trust it if my life was depending on it. And, WHO CARES ABOUT HEARING LOSS IF YOUR USING YOUR CARRY GUN TO DEFEND YOURSELF! That should be your last priority if things get so bad where you need to use a firearm to deal with a threat. Plus, believe me if your in that situation you may not even notice it after the fact.
richc
NES Member
All,
In an earlier post killakyle22 mentioned he is 12 or 13 years old. You are arguing about defensive ammo with a young person with no experience who is hoping his Dad will buy him a .22 rifle for his birthday.
Consider the source, all. Do you really want to have this conversation with someone who is not yet a teenager?
Best,
Rich
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