Orchestrating an ASW prosecution case to force the hand of the AG and collapse the system

[Reptile]

We need a good test case!
Have some upstanding ASW owner flaunt the laws set by the AG.
If they refuse to prosecute him then we all are free.
If they DO prosecute him - it will be thrown out of court and the AG will lose all credibility.

Who wants to take this up?

Any thoughts?

 

[not new guy]

We support you.

 

[Dadstoys]

I'll be right behind you.

 

[Reptile]

We support you.

I'll be right behind you.

We need to find a test subject and have legal and financial backing in place.

Someone who is sympathetic, articulate, and can speak intelligently on the subject.

That leaves me out!

 

[drgrant]

We need a good test case!
Have some upstanding ASW owner flaunt the laws set by the AG.
If they refuse to prosecute him then we all are free.
If they DO prosecute him - it will be thrown out of court and the AG will lose all credibility.

Who wants to take this up?

Any thoughts?

Not sure if serious, the AG could literally make 2 phone calls and generate a case if their "interpretation" had any merit, making your brilliant idea a pointless exercise. There are already tons of people in this state violating her fake laws. She even knows who they are because of her stupid whiney letter after 7/20/16. "stop or we'll send out another strongly worded letter!!!!"

Also "Refusal to prosecute" doesnt really mean anything. (the feds refuse to prosecute probably thousands of paper gun crimes every year like FIP or straws etc).

The AGs office in MA has had no credibility for decades, you just havent been paying attention. The voters dont either, but they're largely just as shitty people as the sitting AG usually is, so theres that.

 

[Mountain]

Here it is, folks- Reptile's version of the 'Tide Pod Challenge'.

 

[AmeriKHAN]

The big deal here is not personal possession. It's that fact that stores won't sell or transfer them to the common person. We could all openly break the rules and they would probably just ignore us to avoid it going to court and I wouldn't be surprised at PDs quietly revoking LTCs and forcing people to go through the trouble of going to court or turning in their guns. So long as gun shops are afraid of selling or transferring for fear of lawsuits, losing their licenses/businesses, or worse, being criminally prosecuted. The only people to be prosecuted will be those without licenses and the AWB charge will be used to force a plea deal just like the minimum mandatory for illicit handgun possession.

 

[drgrant]

The big deal here is not personal possession. It's that fact that stores won't sell or transfer them to the common person. We could all openly break the rules and they would probably just ignore us to avoid it going to court and I wouldn't be surprised at PDs quietly revoking LTCs and forcing people to go through the trouble of going to court or turning in their guns. So long as gun shops are afraid of selling or transferring for fear of lawsuits, losing their licenses/businesses, or worse, being criminally prosecuted. The only people to be prosecuted will be those without licenses and the AWB charge will be used to force a plea deal just like the minimum mandatory for illicit handgun possession.

There have already effectively been thousands of people and a few dozen gun shops openly breaking her shit "rules" not based on law since 2016 and nothing has happened. It's shocking for people like @Reptile to comprehend this but the reality is that it's because all of the people involved are not actually breaking laws but doing nothing more than making the AGs office mildly annoyed.

 

[Reptile]

There have already effectively been thousands of people and a few dozen gun shops openly breaking her shit "rules" not based on law since 2016 and nothing has happened. It's shocking for people like @Reptile to comprehend this but the reality is that it's because all of the people involved are not actually breaking laws but doing nothing more than making the AGs office mildly annoyed.

Well they just declared that post 2016 is now illegal.

It took them years to put this is writing.

What if people disobey?

What are they going to do about it?

What are the consequences?

How about some civil disobedience?

Somebody should create a YouTube page where everybody can show their AR's and flaunt these laws right in the face of the AG.

What would the AG do to those people?

Somebody needs to call the AG's bluff.

 

[drgrant]

Well they just declared that post 2016 is now illegal.

It took them years to put this is writing.

The AG put it in writing the day of her decree.

What is different from then vs now?

Nothing.

What if people disobey?

They already have been. Pay attention. Everywhere.

What are they going to do about it?

What are the consequences?

Nothing.

How about some civil disobedience?

Already going on all around you.

Somebody should create a YouTube page where everybody can show their AR's and flaunt these laws right in the face of the AG.

Not necessary, its hoplessly stupid redundant. You are 150% retarded if you think that the AG does not know and is not aware of the availability of "cases"
for this. There were literally thousands of people submitting FA10s for these guns during and well after the "press conference". Not to mention some shops wired for
consent decree enemas and the like, possibly sending more info direct to the AGs office.

What would the AG do to those people?

Absolutely nothing, just like since 7/20/16 .

 

[namedpipes]

We need a good test case!
Have some upstanding ASW owner flaunt the laws set by the AG.
If they refuse to prosecute him then we all are free.
If they DO prosecute him - it will be thrown out of court and the AG will lose all credibility.

Who wants to take this up?

Any thoughts?

It's flout, not flaunt, but other than that, a good idea. However, I moved out of Mass!

It's got to be you, Rep!

 

[Reptile]

The AG put it in writing the day of her decree.

What is different from then vs now?

Nothing.



They already have been. Pay attention. Everywhere.



Nothing.


Already going on all around you.



Not necessary, its hoplessly stupid redundant. You are 150% retarded if you think that the AG does not know and is not aware of the availability of "cases"
for this. There were literally thousands of people submitting FA10s for these guns during and well after the "press conference". Not to mention some shops wired for
consent decree enemas and the like, possibly sending more info direct to the AGs office.


Absolutely nothing, just like since 7/20/16 .

So, why did GOAL post this like this was a big deal?

This all leads up to the new registration scheme.

How many gun owners are going to register these AR's when the system gets up and running?

 

[namedpipes]

Another sort of flout, or fluyt, back in the day.

 

[drgrant]

So, why did GOAL post this like this was a big deal?

This all leads up to the new registration scheme.

How many gun owners are going to register these AR's when the system gets up and running?

Because its "the official line" parroted by the state, even if it is legally invalid. This is a definite case here though of: "Don't shoot the messenger" .

As far as "who is going to register" who the hell knows, and honestly who cares? Many wont even know its a requirement when it gets launched.

 

[Reptile]

Because its "the official line" parroted by the state, even if it is legally invalid. This is a definite case here though of: "Don't shoot the messenger" .

As far as "who is going to register" who the hell knows, and honestly who cares? Many wont even know its a requirement when it gets launched.

I guess what I'm asking is what would happen if somebody does not register?

 

[Veguns]

We need a good test case!
Have some upstanding ASW owner flaunt the laws set by the AG.
If they refuse to prosecute him then we all are free.
If they DO prosecute him - it will be thrown out of court and the AG will lose all credibility.

Who wants to take this up?

Any thoughts?

I open carried in my town (which is legal) and got my LTC and gun taken by the police. "We don't do that here," were exactly their words. No charges, no fines, no crimes, just 4A violations.

Comm2A came to my rescue, but I told them flat out I'd be a test case guinea pig if they wanted. They declined and said open carry was not something they wanted to fight. I understood, but I still have the urge to fight. I dislike stupid cops and rights we have only on paper. MA has a lot of both.

 

[In God We Trust]

I open carried in my town (which is legal) and got my LTC and gun taken by the police. "We don't do that here," were exactly their words. No charges, no fines, no crimes, just 4A violations.

Comm2A came to my rescue, but I told them flat out I'd be a test case guinea pig if they wanted. They declined and said open carry was not something they wanted to fight. I understood, but I still have the urge to fight. I dislike stupid cops and rights we have only on paper. MA has a lot of both.

Do you still open carry in your town? Just curious. I’ve done it a couple times to and from work in civvies and never had a problem.

However I will say that if people started open carrying (yes I know it’s legal) the state would just pass a law overnight banning it. It’s not like our side will ever get a win WRT state laws.

 

[Broc Tuah]

We need a good test case!

You thought of it, grow a pair of balls and volunteer yourself.

If you are not willing to do it yourself, then dont bring it up.

 

[Ron Jablonski]

You thought of it, grow a pair of balls and volunteer yourself.

If you are not willing to do it yourself, then dont bring it up.

Seriously

 

[Veguns]

Do you still open carry in your town? Just curious. I’ve done it a couple times to and from work in civvies and never had a problem.

However I will say that if people started open carrying (yes I know it’s legal) the state would just pass a law overnight banning it. It’s not like our side will ever get a win WRT state laws.

No, because I am poor and do not have $10k to fight a legal battle against the police for illegally seizing my stuff. If I had the money for that, you bet I would OC again.

You may be right about the second part, I do not know. But if I have a right to do something, then I should not be messed with by police.

All I can say is, try OC in my town (or any next to it) and see what happens The closer you get to Boston, the worse it gets.

 

[In God We Trust]

No, because I am poor and do not have $10k to fight a legal battle against the police for illegally seizing my stuff. If I had the money for that, you bet I would OC again.

You may be right about the second part, I do not know. But if I have a right to do something, then I should not be messed with by police.

All I can say is, try OC in my town (or any next to it) and see what happens The closer you get to Boston, the worse it gets.

I’m well west of that and it’s almost normal out here, very little commie retardation.

 

[Veguns]

I’m well west of that and it’s almost normal out here, very little commie retardation.

There's a reason I'm scoping out property out west of the Mississip... Worcester. Just so dang expensive everywhere, not to mention the taxes.

I've already decided that when I do move, I will call the police chief first and ask him exactly what he would do if he found a man open carrying in his town. Anything other than "check his license and make sure he's not doing anything illegal" means I won't move there.

 

[M1911]

We need a good test case!
Have some upstanding ASW owner flaunt the laws set by the AG.
If they refuse to prosecute him then we all are free.
If they DO prosecute him - it will be thrown out of court and the AG will lose all credibility.

Who wants to take this up?

Any thoughts?

Thank you for volunteering. Wear comfortable clothes on the day that you plan to get arrested.

 

[M1911]

I open carried in my town (which is legal) and got my LTC and gun taken by the police. "We don't do that here," were exactly their words. No charges, no fines, no crimes, just 4A violations.

Comm2A came to my rescue, but I told them flat out I'd be a test case guinea pig if they wanted. They declined and said open carry was not something they wanted to fight. I understood, but I still have the urge to fight. I dislike stupid cops and rights we have only on paper. MA has a lot of both.

While I disagree with the police response, I have no intention of open carrying. I see lots of downsides and no upsides.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

Thank you for volunteering. Wear comfortable clothes on the day that you plan to get arrested.

Seems redundant when you know they're fixing to hook you up with a nice orange onesie.

 

[M1911]

Seems redundant when you know they're fixing to hook you up with a nice orange onesie.

You're probably going to spend several hours sitting on a bench before getting prison scrubs.

 

[Veguns]

While I disagree with the police response, I have no intention of open carrying. I see lots of downsides and no upsides.

I understand. "To have a right to do something is not the same as to be right in doing it."

I hate this legal atmosphere of "you have rights, just don't ever exercise them". I'm willing to force a confrontation to "force their hand" as the OP said. Not because I think OC is tactically smart, nor because I hate cops.

I think if we all just started open carrying, that would force them to make even more absurd laws and maybe, finally get SCOTUS to scrap them all. But we're all scared to be mobbed by cops who don't know the laws. I am. This is not good and I would be willing to be the legal guinea pig, like that guy before me who went to the hospital armed and set a legal precedent.

 

[drgrant]

I understand. "To have a right to do something is not the same as to be right in doing it."

I hate this legal atmosphere of "you have rights, just don't ever exercise them". I'm willing to force a confrontation to "force their hand" as the OP said. Not because I think OC is tactically smart, nor because I hate cops.

I think if we all just started open carrying, that would force them to make even more absurd laws and maybe, finally get SCOTUS to scrap them all. But we're all scared to be mobbed by cops who don't know the laws. I am. This is not good and I would be willing to be the legal guinea pig, like that guy before me who went to the hospital armed and set a legal precedent.

I agree with your right to OC if you want, but if it was me I wouldn't be picking that hill to
die on. IMHO its a waste of time in commie states. Look at what happened in CA as an
example.

OC only has a chance of advancing something if a state is otherwise normal. Like there are dudes doing the OC while fishing shit in FL, but I dont see them making headway, but I also don't see a "loss" for them there if it goes badly. Or like in VA where VCDL actually used OC to fight other dumb shit in their carry laws. (basically, at one point you had to OC in any restauraunt that sold alcohol even if you weren't consuming because of the retarded ness of their laws. ) It's easier to fight dumb laws when you have a "beachhead" to go off of. In a place like MA carry is not really even a right never mind open carry.

 

[M1911]

I understand. "To have a right to do something is not the same as to be right in doing it."

I hate this legal atmosphere of "you have rights, just don't ever exercise them". I'm willing to force a confrontation to "force their hand" as the OP said. Not because I think OC is tactically smart, nor because I hate cops.

I think if we all just started open carrying, that would force them to make even more absurd laws and maybe, finally get SCOTUS to scrap them all. But we're all scared to be mobbed by cops who don't know the laws. I am. This is not good and I would be willing to be the legal guinea pig, like that guy before me who went to the hospital armed and set a legal precedent.

I wasn't big, strong, or fast when I was young. Now I'm over 60 and it has been about 30 years since I practiced handgun retention. I try to avoid getting in fights and open carrying is a really good way to make yourself a target of both criminals and cops.

You are assuming that if we pick enough fights that we will eventually win. I think that is a bad assumption.

 

[M1911]

I agree with your right to OC if you want, but if it was me I wouldn't be picking that hill to
die on. IMHO its a waste of time in commie states. Look at what happened in CA as an
example.

Yup, they made things worse, not better.