Our Son

He's graduating - Turning Green - this morning at 10am eastern. Base is closed to visitors so they are streaming it on facebook. If any of y'all care to watch it will be on the company page Alpha Company 3-47 Infantry Regiment. (yeah, I know, facebook sucks)

He will be staying right there to do his 11B training which he should graduate from (Turn Blue) on April 1.
 
oh man! The live stream sucked but we spoke for about 2 hours this afternoon.

Said about 8 men from his company "refused to train" after HBL. Talk about BULLSHIT! I have serious opinions on this. Kind of complicated.
On the one hand no one was drafted. On the other hand, many of these "men" are just out of high school where they have had everyone telling them what to do and mom and dad are taking care of the consequences, etc. At least our son was 22 when he enlisted and had been through some shit. (We had to kick his ass out of the house at one point. He was LITERALLY on the streets) And with both his dad and I having served, we warned him about the mental mind games the DSs would try. I think recruiters should be banned from high schools and no one allowed to enlist until at least 20 years old.

I think HBL IN THE MIDDLE OF BASIC TRAINING is stupid as f***! Who the hell thinks up this shit? Anyway, I also believe that one of the best times to get people to re-enlist is probably right at the end of training. I know when I finished Basic I was gung ho all the way!

But whatever, it was good to talk to him and they get a "4 day pass" which means they can gorge themselves on food that's on post and have access to their phones since the base is on "restriction."
 
We had two privates get separated during BCT too, and no leave to account for it. They just decided they'd made a mistake. It happens. I'd rather see them gone, especially since they get no VA.

In a perfect world they should have to pay back whatever salary they've accrued during BCT, too.
 
I think we lost about 20 people over the course of our cycle, but to be honest some of them were dropped back to another cycle for reasons outside there control, and I'm sure went on to graduate. This was Parris Island, 2008. We started 94 and graduated about 74 of the original platoon. I think probably about 10 of those guys quit and weren't going to make it. I remember having hung out at the recruiting station for a while as a poolee seeing a handful of kids who PTd with us quit. It was never a shock. I remember 2 kids pretty distinctly. It was downright embarrassing. Even if I didn't want to be there, quitting would have been way more miserable psychologically.
 
crazymjb said:
I think we lost about 20 people over the course of our cycle, but to be honest some of them were dropped back to another cycle for reasons outside there control, and I'm sure went on to graduate. This was Parris Island, 2008. We started 94 and graduated about 74 of the original platoon. I think probably about 10 of those guys quit and weren't going to make it. I remember having hung out at the recruiting station for a while as a poolee seeing a handful of kids who PTd with us quit. It was never a shock. I remember 2 kids pretty distinctly. It was downright embarrassing. Even if I didn't want to be there, quitting would have been way more miserable psychologically.
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My son saw a loss of about 20% in Army basic training. Another 30% at intel training. And about 50% at language school at DLI. About 1 in 4 made it through.

Some never should have joined in the first place. For some the training was too rigorous. And for some the stress broke them down or brought out prior demons. And in some drastic cases suicide attempts were seen.

It's not easy...
 
richc said:
My son saw a loss of about 20% in Army basic training. Another 30% at intel training. And about 50% at language school at DLI. About 1 in 4 made it through.

Some never should have joined in the first place. For some the training was too rigorous. And for some the stress broke them down or brought out prior demons. And in some drastic cases suicide attempts were seen.

It's not easy...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be surprised to see the army with higher attrition rates through training than the USMC. Parris Island wasn't "hard" if you were in decent physical shape. Most people's motivation was also pretty straight forward -- they bought the marketing, hook, line, and sinker. I'm in the army now, and not a knock on the service at all, but the marketing and motivations of many who join are different. I think it's easier to throw in the towel when you haven't tied your identity to making it through a training pipeline.

Now that said, obviously for many, being a soldier was a dream. I think it's less common outside of specific jobs, however. I'm in flight school for the army. The attrition rate (if your application is accepted) here is very low. People here are more motivated than I have ever seen save for maybe Parris Island. Hell, even our SERE class had NOBODY quit.
 
crazymjb said:
I wouldn't be surprised to see the army with higher attrition rates through training than the USMC. Parris Island wasn't "hard" if you were in decent physical shape. Most people's motivation was also pretty straight forward -- they bought the marketing, hook, line, and sinker. I'm in the army now, and not a knock on the service at all, but the marketing and motivations of many who join are different. I think it's easier to throw in the towel when you haven't tied your identity to making it through a training pipeline.

Now that said, obviously for many, being a soldier was a dream. I think it's less common outside of specific jobs, however. I'm in flight school for the army. The attrition rate (if your application is accepted) here is very low. People here are more motivated than I have ever seen save for maybe Parris Island. Hell, even our SERE class had NOBODY quit.
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The attrition rate of 20% was for Army basic training. Intel and language was from all branches of the military.

We have a family friend whose daughter leaves for Army basic training on 2/1. She's scheduled for the same intel training as our son. She's already proficient in another language so she's not heading to DLI. But she is heading to Airborne training.

Her Dad was my BFF. I gave the eulogy at his funeral. She was only 13 or so at that time.

My son and I took her out to the range last weekend. Partly to get her comfortable with shooting an AR-15 and understand how it works. And partly to get her mentally ready for what lies ahead.

My son shared a lot of the "stuff" that happens. Gave her tips and pointers on how to look at things and be prepared for some of the nonsense. She's a very smart young lady but I wonder if she's a bit fragile for the BS side of military training. Time will tell.

Flight training must be awesome! Very cool, @crazymjb !!! Thank you for your service, sir.
 
Its simultaneously the most fun I've ever had and most stressed I have ever been.

I think good "advice" for every young person joining the military is understand it's not perfect, understand there is almost infinite opportunity, and understand sometimes you will just have to swallow the bullshit.
 
crazymjb said:
Even if I didn't want to be there, quitting would have been way more miserable psychologically.
Click to expand...

richc said:
Some never should have joined in the first place.
Click to expand...
[thumbsup]
In more competitive career fields it seems that quitting can be contagious. The strongest were going to make it anyways. Others can be pulled through training. I remember a couple of instructors who made it through graduation. When certifying as an instructor, the class support fell away, attitudes went to shit and shortly so did they. Ultimately it is up to the individual. Matt
 
Refused to train ? When ordered by a DI ?

We had only one refusal to train, He was marched out out of the barracks in the middle of winter wearing only his skivvies, with the DI's .45 pointed at the back of his skull, the MP's showed up escort him to the Ft Dix stockade for an extended Block Holiday... Well enough of the 'good old days'.
 
My lad is just back from 1st deployment 82nd Airborne Red Falcons, now in 2wk barracks quarantine, before a week of duty and Post-deployment Block Leave. As are many, he’s physically trashed from lifting too many weights with the boys, bulking up on bacon and eggs, occasional high-speed violent action, and humping all that paratrooper stuff. We’ll get him some chiropractic, musculoskeletal therapy, PT (Mom’s a Physical Therapist and Cert Personal Trainer), patch the boy up and send him back.

My USN experience had no comparison, so I can only marvel at, and admire, today’s soldiers. My son is a better man than me.

His words of wisdom when home XMAS 2019 (last time we saw him) were - an open mind and sense of humor go a long way in personal survival and acceptance, which lead to fitting in and loving the job. Pretty good for a lad just turned 21 in May.
 
Refusal to train? Where I come from, that’ll get you punched in the teeth and kicked in the breadbasket until you change your mind and your morale improves. Hell, I got ellbowed on the nose during basic for a salute that wasn’t as nice as the adjudant would’ve liked it.
 
frenchman said:
Refusal to train? Where I come from, that’ll get you punched in the teeth and kicked in the breadbasket until you change your mind and your morale improves. Hell, I got ellbowed on the nose during basic for a salute that wasn’t as nice as the adjudant would’ve liked it.
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yep, not the way it used to be. However, I do prefer an ALL VOLUNTEER military to drafting people. Yes, some people enlist and they really shouldn't have. I have heard they make it "hell" for a month or so on the person as they discharge them out. Though I don't know exactly what "hell" meant to the mother of the person who quit! (she's not former military nor is any of the family, although she is a somewhat distant branch of a well known "political" family) My understanding is these guys end up with a dishonorable for 6 months and then it changes to general discharge after that but I don't know for 100% certainty.

But we spoke briefly with our son last night and he sounded really good. They just completed a week of automatic weapons! His response when I asked how that was - "It gave me a hard on." [rofl] Dad and I both laughed! [rofl]

BTW, Anyone notice anything new about me? And no, it's not my hair do.
 
FrugalFannie said:
yep, not the way it used to be. However, I do prefer an ALL VOLUNTEER military to drafting people. Yes, some people enlist and they really shouldn't have. I have heard they make it "hell" for a month or so on the person as they discharge them out. Though I don't know exactly what "hell" meant to the mother of the person who quit! (she's not former military nor is any of the family, although she is a somewhat distant branch of a well known "political" family) My understanding is these guys end up with a dishonorable for 6 months and then it changes to general discharge after that but I don't know for 100% certainty.

But we spoke briefly with our son last night and he sounded really good. They just completed a week of automatic weapons! His response when I asked how that was - "It gave me a hard on." [rofl] Dad and I both laughed! [rofl]

BTW, Anyone notice anything new about me? And no, it's not my hair do.
Click to expand...

Long live penny pincher.

I think mileage varies on the experience quitters have. Generally speaking it’s an admin sep and the only really negative thing that might follow someone around is a discharge code that makes it hard or impossible to re-enter service.
 
Our soldier is doing pretty well. The usual (for these days) ups and downs I think. It sucks when you graduate basic, have a 4 day pass, and can't go anywhere other than the PX (1 time) and the only thing you can do is order food delivered from whatever is on post. Of course, the food was greatly appreciated and they even depleted the supply of chicken wings that weekend.

They had a 3 day weekend last weekend (I think) and same stuff. Except they weren't allowed to go to the PX except for a hair cut which they did as a unit.

We most likely won't be allowed to see him graduate and it's looking unlikely that we will be allowed to pick him up and transport him to his duty station.

Which, by the way, is Fort Carson, CO! Of course this means we have to go there. I have wanted to go to CO for a very long time. I went once, not a great experience. I was in Denver. Prefer the wilderness. No idea when we will be able to go see him.

Just thought I would share!
 
He'll stick it out.

I did a little bit of time at Carson. I was disappointed that it wasn't more mountain-y. The post is almost exclusively on prairie, with plenty of gullies, thornbushes, and sunlight. Not a huge amount of trees. He'll get very good at land nav (the real kind, not the kind with GPS); the points on the land nav course there are multiple kilometers apart, rather than multiple meters, unless they've changed things.

The Springs itself is a nice enough city. He should enjoy his time there.
 
crazymjb said:
I think we lost about 20 people over the course of our cycle, but to be honest some of them were dropped back to another cycle for reasons outside there control, and I'm sure went on to graduate. This was Parris Island, 2008. We started 94 and graduated about 74 of the original platoon. I think probably about 10 of those guys quit and weren't going to make it. I remember having hung out at the recruiting station for a while as a poolee seeing a handful of kids who PTd with us quit. It was never a shock. I remember 2 kids pretty distinctly. It was downright embarrassing. Even if I didn't want to be there, quitting would have been way more miserable psychologically.
Click to expand...
Quit!. You guys could just quit? The Corps has changed. We had no quiters. We were the first platoon at Parris Island in January 1968. 100 boots entered boot camp and 100 Marines from platoon 100 graduated. There was no quit option in those days. Only ass woopins from your D.I.'s. Quiters. Talk about the walk of shame.
 
M60 said:
Quit!. You guys could just quit? The Corps has changed. We had no quiters. We were the first platoon at Parris Island in January 1968.
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I took the oath in the summer of 66. Joined the USN for 4. The Marine Sgt walked into the room upon completion and took 50% as USMC enlisted. It was the FIRST induction of USN to USMC. They all went to corpsman school.
 
They had Holiday Block Leave in 91 when I went to Benning. Was the worse part of basic. Was nice to look forward to go home for a couple weeks yeah, but coming back to Benning to roughly the same shit sucked. We had finished the Basic portion of training, I think we were about 8 weeks in, so when we got back it was all INfantry stuff, but man. It sucked. As a company, we had 15 guys quit after Christmas. Took about a month for them to process out, so it made the KP roster easy. Id say overall between everything , we had about 50 not finish from 200 or so guys.
Good luck to your son.
Carson is home to a couple Battalions of the 12th Regiment now. My old unit, flags moved from Germany.
 
smokey-seven said:
I took the oath in the summer of 66. Joined the USN for 4. The Marine Sgt walked into the room upon completion and took 50% as USMC enlisted. It was the FIRST induction of USN to USMC. They all went to corpsman school.
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We took the oath in Boston, before getting on the train to Parris Island. Three of us joined together on the buddy system, which guaranteed we'd go through boot camp together. At induction, after we swore the oath, a officer came in and brought everyone to attention. Among us were volunteers from all branches, as well as draftees. every third man was instructed to step forward. At that time, the officer said congratulations. You men are now United States Marines. Saw lots of men cry like babies, right then and there.
 
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smokey-seven said:
I took the oath in the summer of 66. Joined the USN for 4. The Marine Sgt walked into the room upon completion and took 50% as USMC enlisted. It was the FIRST induction of USN to USMC. They all went to corpsman school.
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God bless all Corpsman. Little did we know that the TET offensive, which started about the same time as we hit Parris Island, was about to change our lives and the lives of Corpsman as well. Boot camp was cut from 16 weeks to 12, during our first week, or so . It was cut again from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, before we graduated from P.I.. By the time we left Parris Island for ITR, the Third Marine Division, had been pretty much wiped out, as it was stationed along the DMZ, therefor the first line of defense, for South Vietnam. Ho Chi Mihn's, 60,000 NVA troops, had to get through the Third before they could disperse throughout South Vietnam. Although the Third Marine Division, was pretty much wiped out, to their credit, the kill ratio was 10 to one and ultimately broke the back of the TET offensive. Not before lots more fighting though. As a result, most of our Parris Island platoon 100, filled holes in the Third Marine Division. Oddly however, of the three of us that joined on the buddy system, I was the only one that was assigned to the Third Marine Division. My two hometown friends, Dick and Wayne both went farther south, to the First Marine Division.
 
Wifes son in law just finished up and graduated on Saturday, the most bizarre airforce basic training I've ever heard of.
Whole class ( flight?) spent about 3 weeks total, out of 6 (or 8?), in quarantine. And then graduation was weird as well I guess. No power or limited power/ heat/ water there in Texas.

He should be in Biloxi by now, for whatever his job training is.
 
M60 said:
Quit!. You guys could just quit? The Corps has changed. We had no quiters. We were the first platoon at Parris Island in January 1968. 100 boots entered boot camp and 100 Marines from platoon 100 graduated. There was no quit option in those days. Only ass woopins from your D.I.'s. Quiters. Talk about the walk of shame.
Click to expand...

There is no formal DOR process like they have for OCS or other selections. But yea, people downright refused to train. Trust me, any force is better off if they let the quitters quit.
 
M60 said:
I agree with you 100 %, but were they expecting a cake walk ? After all, it is Parris Island.
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I remember distinctly I was getting quarterdecked when one of the kids quit. He pretended he couldn’t breathe or had asthma or something, it was obviously bullshit. He just stopped and quit. I asked him what the hell he expected. He just continued to feign that he “has asthma and can’t breathe.” It wasn’t a cake walk, but Parris Island wasn’t exactly special forces selection. If you get there, some mild determination will get you through. Some people just can’t hack it I guess.

Another kid just had to sit in the corner all day for what must have been two weeks.
 
crazymjb said:
I remember distinctly I was getting quarterdecked when one of the kids quit. He pretended he couldn’t breathe or had asthma or something, it was obviously bullshit. He just stopped and quit. I asked him what the hell he expected. He just continued to feign that he “has asthma and can’t breathe.” It wasn’t a cake walk, but Parris Island wasn’t exactly special forces selection. If you get there, some mild determination will get you through. Some people just can’t hack it I guess.

Another kid just had to sit in the corner all day for what must have been two weeks.
Click to expand...
To me, P.I. was similar to football practice with harassment.
 

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