purchasing first 1911

[sourcehill]

Okay guys, my supply of GLOCK juice has temporarily run out. I am currently sipping on the 1911 tea. I somehow got bitten by the bug a few weeks ago and have decided that my next purchase will be a 1911. Now which model to start with? I know that I want a government model. I want something that I can tinker with and that will accept most 1911 custom parts. I ALLLLMOST bought a S&W full size but I figured since the extractor is exclusive to the Smith model, that maybe the internals aren't normal 1911 parts. If the extractor was the only difference from a normal 1911, I would probably pick it up. Again, I'm a total noob when it comes to these guns. Any help would be AWESOME. Thanks!

Here is my old Para broken down for a good cleaning:

 

[FPrice]

My recommendation would be an older Colt or a Colt clone (such as an Argentine Colt). I "think" that many of the 1911 copies are pretty much interchangeable but you would be better off getting confirmation on any model you check out.

I am sending you a PM with an idea.

 

[Scrivener]

First, try and shoot a few models; S&W, Para and SVI are on "The List," but there is a huge used market. Borrow your friends' guns and/or go to a rental range, like AFS.

Para's have a proprietary three-finger spring (it's longer), so you would have to cut a new slot about .10" above the factory one if you wanted to use GI-spec springs (i.e., everyone else's). However, I had little difficulty fitting Wilson Combat slide releases and safeties, or SVI hammers and disconnectors.

As you noted, S&W uses an external extractor (as did the Star copy). I'd bet most of the internals are "swappable," though.

The 1911 and AR-15 are the '55 Chevy / '66 Mustang of the firearms world. Pretty much everything has already been tried and anything that worked is now available in aftermarket form for the rest of us to play with.
Find a gun you like - the rest can be dealt with later.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As you noted, S&W uses an external extractor (as did the Star copy). I'd bet most of the internals are "swappable," though.

You are correct. I have a S&W 1911 and have replaced some internal parts with standard 1911 parts bought mail-order. No problems whatsoever.

 

[Adam_MA]

Para's have a proprietary three-finger spring (it's longer), so you would have to cut a new slot about .10" above the factory one if you wanted to use GI-spec springs (i.e., everyone else's).

I'm curious about this statement, as my Para 1911 recently had an entire Wolff spring package installed with no issues. Also, by "three-finger" spring are you referring to the Sear spring?

 

[PistolPete]

Once you go 1911 you'll never go back to plastic.... HAHA Seriously though you just want to find a nice 1911 with a tight slide to frame fit. Everything else is easy to replace. If your slide to frame fit is sloppy you'll either need to buy a new slide, get the gun accurized, compress the slide in a vice, or add material to the slide or frame. Either way isn't going to be inexpensive. It's easier to start with a gun that has all or most of the options you would want. Meaning... if you want BoMar sights get a gun with Bomars. Then you won't have to have the slide milled to fit a different rear sight. The other components can most often be replaced as you see fit. If you decided you want a better trigger you can tune your stock trigger for free to free up a little of the weight. Or, you can buy new components or get a professional trigger job. If you want to add a magwell to the gun then add it. The S&W platform is great and most any of their guns will do. Many of their guns don't need any work except for the trigger. The external extractor isn't necessarily a bad thing. Then you don't have to worry about tuning the extractor. Some people don't like the look of it. The S&W guns will be reliable regardless.

 

[Scrivener]

Also, by "three-finger" spring are you referring to the Sear spring?

Yes. An SVI unit was installed in my Para, to take advantage of the ball bearing in it.

I'm guessing an SVI trigger kit would drop right into an S&W, just as it did in my Springfield.

 

[sourcehill]

PistolPete, doesn't a sloppy slide/frame fit mean it's more reliable? This is how it is with my plastic pistols. I did handle a 1991a that was real loose. What kind of problems will this cause if it isn't tight?

 

[Supermoto]

a tight slide to frame fit will not affect reliablity unless it is poorly fitted.
Being loose does not mean it will inaccurate. I think slide / frame fit is about accounts for about 15% of the total potential accuracy, barrel, bushing fit is more important

 

[Snapshot]

I was under the impression that tighter fit = better accuracy at the expense of reliability. Sort of like the difference between the AR and the AK

 

[HOPHEAD]

One caution with the Colts is that many of them are sharp enough to shave with. If this is going to be your carry piece budget to have the edges beveled.

 

[Supermoto]

I was under the impression that tighter fit = better accuracy at the expense of reliability. Sort of like the difference between the AR and the AK

There are alot of gustom built guns that lock up solid, have very little to no play on the slide frame fit, but run 100%.

My Bedell has a very little play on the slide after 25K round, lock up is very tight, it is extremely accurate and 100% reliable. any malfunction I have had has be from bad reloads.

You don't have to sacrifice reliability for accuracy, but you sure do have to pay for it

 

[PistolPete]

If the gun is built right then you won't lose reliability from having products with tighter tolerances. I would think a gun with a tight fit would outlast a loose gun for the simple fact there will be less movement of its parts when cycling. I would think it is similar to having your tires balanced on your car. When out of balance the car won't handle right and in turn will put more stresses on other components.

 

[M1911]

I was under the impression that tighter fit = better accuracy at the expense of reliability. Sort of like the difference between the AR and the AK

Barrel and bushing fit is far more important to accuracy than slide fit.

 

[Lugnut]

Barrel and bushing fit is far more important to accuracy than slide fit.

I never understood how some folks get so wrapped up about this. Mnay of my best shooting Sigs have lots of play in the slide.

Honestly... I've yet to see anyone that could shoot to the real potential of a 1911.

 

[copterdoctor]

Don't overlook a Kimber 1911. Very accurate and dependable right out of the box. When we are at the pistol range and I am putting holes all over the target, my son will pick up the pistol and show me that there is nothing wrong with the gun.

 

[Scrivener]

Don't overlook a Kimber 1911. Very accurate and dependable right out of the box. When we are at the pistol range and I am putting holes all over the target, my son will pick up the pistol and show me that there is nothing wrong with the gun.

As Kimbers are not on the AFR, your source would be the used, private sale market.

Not a very large pool to draw from...

 

[rwl1955]

1911

Go with a S&W 1911. I have the SS model and it`s a great gun. My first 1911. I have Glocks also. You can`t beat the lifetime guarantee and it`s made in Massachusetts. Remember, every time you buy a S&W it pisses of an anti-gun Cambridge liberal.

 

[SFC D]

Auto-Ordinance WWII Parkerized

The Auto-Ordinance WWII Parkerized was my first 1911. Its a retro GI 1911 thats true to what I learned to shot with, except it doesn't rattle as much. Inexpensive, reliable and very accurate. It isn't a Smith&Wesson, Springfield or Kimber (can't even get those two in Mass), but a good pistol for the price. Its also made here in Mass.

 

[PistolPete]

The Auto-Ordinance WWII Parkerized was my first 1911. Its a retro GI 1911 thats true to what I learned to shot with, except it doesn't rattle as much. Inexpensive, reliable and very accurate. It isn't a Smith&Wesson, Springfield or Kimber (can't even get those two in Mass), but a good pistol for the price. Its also made here in Mass.

Not a good choice to build off of. They just aren't built all that well, the sights are aweful, and the slide will need to be milled to fit good sights. All the trigger components need to be replaced. The few bucks you save buying this gun will cost you more in the long run. Then when you realize you're into the gun for a ton of money and you want a much better 1911 when you try selling it you won't get anything for it.

As for getting a Kimber.... Great idea but they are VERY limited in MA. I've been searching for a CDP compact now for 8 years.

 

[sourcehill]

Great advice guys. I did handle a Thompson that you are speaking of. I believe they are produced by Kahr in Worcester. Someone did suggest that it was a nice platform to start from but reading the post above has me thinking otherwise. I'll research this some more.