rl 550b questions

[headednorth]

Im starting to feel like Im outgrowing my single stage and Im thinking about going with a 550b. Ive spent some time reading some threads that came up after a search here and also at Brian Enos' site and had just a few questions to ask of people who have some experience with the 550 and/or the 650.

Im trying to avoid buying twice. If the 650 is a better choice, then I'd rather go with that. Im leaning 550 because Ive read an avg. round/hr rate of 400-600. Even if it only ends up being 200/hr, if I spend an hour or so even just every other day, I'd be happy with the round count. I dont feel the need to crank out huge amounts of ammo.

Fwiw, Im reloading 9mm, 45acp, .223, and will probably be doing 38/357 sometime in the future. Shooting a total of anywhere between 100 to 5-600 rounds a week combined. No competition shooting at the moment, but it could be a possibility at some point.

-Has anyone bought the 550 and then went on to the 650? If so, what made you move on?

-Is the 650's having an additional station a big deal?

-Afaik, other manufacturers dies work in the 550 (650 too?). Ive heard that non-Dillon dies have to be screwed almost all the way into the press to be at the correct height, not leaving much room for further adjustment. Anyone have any issues with using other dies in a Dillon?

-Probably just a matter of personal preference, but what are peoples thoughts on the "how it should be" package? (strong mount, bins, roller arm...) Is it something I could live without? I have a single stage mounted to the bench with a straight handle and a ball on the end and to be honest, it operates fine and I have no issues with that kind of set-up. Maybe I dont know what Im missing?

- Im leaning towards the option of the toolhead/powder measure for each caliber to avoid having to switch the powder measure each time and re-calibrate it. Seems easier and one thing I dont like about my current set up is changing out the rifle and pistol rotors on the powder measure. Not a big deal, but I like the idea of just pulling a couple of pins and sliding the whole set up out/sliding a new one in. Ive read another approach is to just buy one for rifle calibers and one for pistols. Anyone have an opinion on these different set-ups?

Thanks in advance

 

[eisenhow]

Im starting to feel like Im outgrowing my single stage and Im thinking about going with a 550b. Ive spent some time reading some threads that came up after a search here and also at Brian Enos' site and had just a few questions to ask of people who have some experience with the 550 and/or the 650.

Im trying to avoid buying twice. If the 650 is a better choice, then I'd rather go with that. Im leaning 550 because Ive read an avg. round/hr rate of 400-600. Even if it only ends up being 200/hr, if I spend an hour or so even just every other day, I'd be happy with the round count. I dont feel the need to crank out huge amounts of ammo.

Fwiw, Im reloading 9mm, 45acp, .223, and will probably be doing 38/357 sometime in the future. Shooting a total of anywhere between 100 to 5-600 rounds a week combined. No competition shooting at the moment, but it could be a possibility at some point.

-Has anyone bought the 550 and then went on to the 650? If so, what made you move on?

I started with a 550b. It was great for me loading 9mm, 38spl, and 40S&W. I wanted to increase my speed and I had to decide between adding a case feeder to the 550 or going with the 650. I chose to add the case feeder to the 550: big mistake. The 550b is a great press. Without a case feeder the lack of auto indexing is NOT a handicap. Add the case feeder and your left hand has to do twice as much work as the right. Add the fact that the 550b case feeder is a total POS. It was an afterthought and I could never get it to run reliably. I ended up going with the 650. Short answer is if you don't ever plan on a casefeeder the 550b is a great deal. It's simpler and cheaper than a 650. The caliber conversions are cheaper if you plan on loading a lot of calibers.

-Is the 650's having an additional station a big deal?

Not really. You can use it for a powder check. I use just look in every case. You can use it for a bullet feeder, I load too many calibers to afford to set it up for each one. I end up using the extra station to place a u-die in station 2 and a dillon sizing die in station 1.

-Afaik, other manufacturers dies work in the 550 (650 too?). Ive heard that non-Dillon dies have to be screwed almost all the way into the press to be at the correct height, not leaving much room for further adjustment. Anyone have any issues with using other dies in a Dillon?

If you use a lee die you can just put the lock ring on the bottom of the toolhead. It's not a big deal. I have since upgraded many of my lee dies to dillon dies.

-Probably just a matter of personal preference, but what are peoples thoughts on the "how it should be" package? (strong mount, bins, roller arm...) Is it something I could live without? I have a single stage mounted to the bench with a straight handle and a ball on the end and to be honest, it operates fine and I have no issues with that kind of set-up. Maybe I dont know what Im missing?

I ran my 550 without a strong mount and a ball handle for years while sitting down. The 650 was a little too tall to sit down at and too low to stand at. The strong mount and an aftermarket offset roller handle (inline fabrication) were a great fit that allowed me to stand up with my setup.

- Im leaning towards the option of the toolhead/powder measure for each caliber to avoid having to switch the powder measure each time and re-calibrate it. Seems easier and one thing I dont like about my current set up is changing out the rifle and pistol rotors on the powder measure. Not a big deal, but I like the idea of just pulling a couple of pins and sliding the whole set up out/sliding a new one in. Ive read another approach is to just buy one for rifle calibers and one for pistols. Anyone have an opinion on these different set-ups?

Thanks in advance

It's more expensive but makes it easier. I'd definitely get a toolhead and powder die for each caliber. You can swap the powder measure around for a while until you have the money to buy dedicated powder measures.

 

[headednorth]

I havent heard anything good about the 550 case feeder. It would seem to be more efficient to keep one hand on the handle at all times though.

I figure I'll bite the bullet and spend a few extra bucks for the luxury of being able to just slide the tool head in and start reloading. After I get over the extra cash spent, it will be nice to not have to fiddle around with a bunch of dies and a powder measure every time I want to load a different caliber.

 

[eisenhow]

I havent heard anything good about the 550 case feeder. It would seem to be more efficient to keep one hand on the handle at all times though.

In theory yes. However, in reality if it doesn't work reliably it takes longer to clear missfed cases it's a net loss. It's a good indication that Brian Enos himself does NOT recommend the casefeeder on the 550 for new loaders.

If you ever intend to use a case feeder get the 650. It was built from the beginning to use it and is fully progressive to take advantage of it: right hand on the handle, the left hand just places the bullet.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

I love my dillon 550b ( no seriously, I like it more than most of my guns )

I wanted the 650, but I didnt have the clearance in my basement for the case feeder. By default I ended up with the 550b. The 550b's manual index is not a issue, I barley even think about doing it anymore. The full caliber conversion are expensive for the 500b, and there even more expensive for the 650. Changing over the 550b caliber to caliber is quick and easy. the 550 is an easy 400 rounds a hour if you buy extra primer tubes to keep you going

 

[Smokewagon]

I love my dillon 550b ( no seriously, I like it more than most of my guns )

I wanted the 650, but I didn't have the clearance in my basement for the case feeder. By default I ended up with the 550b. The 550b's manual index is not a issue, I barley even think about doing it anymore. The full caliber conversion are expensive for the 500b, and there even more expensive for the 650. Changing over the 550b caliber to caliber is quick and easy. the 550 is an easy 400 rounds a hour if you buy extra primer tubes to keep you going

Exactly my experience. I'd only go 650 if you were going to be using the case feeder. 400+ rounds/hour is easy on a 550b if you get set up right and get your rhythm going with placing cases and bullets. The manual indexing won't really slow you down at all. What I do with my hands:

Pull Handle with right hand, left is reaching for bullet.
Place bullet with left hand then index with left, right hand reaching for case.
Place case with right hand - then start over again with pulling handle.

Seems pretty efficient, and only having to load primer tubes will slow me down. I actually load 3 primer tubes before I even start. When I load the last one the wife comes in and loads them all back up for me (If she is around). It ends up being a quick way to produce a thousand rounds (Usually about 2 hours or less). Then the wife helps me shoot it all.

 

[M1911]

I'm leaning 550 because Ive read an avg. round/hr rate of 400-600.

400-600 rounds per hour? NF way. I've put about 200 batches through my 550 (with an average of about 200 rounds per batch, so figure 40k rounds. I can do 300 per hour, tops.

 

[Fixxah]

650 or go home.

 

[beantown]

My biggest problem with the 550 is the primer decapper. It doesn't seem wide enough to catch all of the crap coming off the primer and I end up with primer dirt spread thinly over the top of the working press' working area. This eventually leads to sticky feeding of the primer feed bar and primer mis-feeds requiring me to dis-assemble the primer slide and clean it up with alcohol wipes.
Currently I'm decapping using a Lee hand-held press and hand priming with an RCBS hand primer. Since I want to start loading higher volume for 9mm I'll probably re-assemble the primer feed mechanism but I think I'll keep decapping with the Lee press and only prime with the 550.
Other than that issue it has been a great press for .45, .38 and 9mm, I have the separate tool heads but only one powder head.
Not sure if I'd do the 650 or not since I just don't know enough about it compared to the 550.

 

[PatMcD]

I have both.
I always loved the 550, and still do. Thought there was no way you could improve on it unless you went all the way up to the 1050. Then a buddy and I chipped in on the 650 (I wanted to go up to the 1050, he wanted the 650).
This 650 absolutely kicks ass loading .223.

In the past, I have advocated here on NES that the 650 was not enough of an upgrade from the 550.
I was wrong.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I have an old 450 and a 650. The 450 is like a 550 without the removable tool head. I load most of the calibers on the 450 and the high volume calibers on the 650. If you're happy loading 200-300 rounds an hour, get the 550. The 650 with the case feeder wll triple that.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

400-600 rounds per hour? NF way. I've put about 200 batches through my 550 (with an average of about 200 rounds per batch, so figure 40k rounds. I can do 300 per hour, tops.

It takes you over 10 seconds to place a bullet, place a case and pull a lever? 600 rounds an hour would be tough without an extra set of hands on the 550, but the thought that there "NF Way" more than 300 rounds an hour is obtainable is pretty silly

 

[richc]

I have two 550b's. It started innocently enough. I had one. Then I realized how much better my life would be with a toolhead for each caliber. Oh, wait, it's even easier with en entire powder measure with toolhead. Boy does that make swapping easier! Truth is when it becomes time to swap tool heads it's time to give the machine a good wipe down and lube. So that works well.

But... but... then there are times I just want to punch out a few hundred rounds for quick use. Normally I'll make a few thousand rounds at a time, but you know how it works. The kid comes home from college and thinks he's dirty Harry and the freaking ammo is gone. So, in a weak moment I saw a 550B on sale and bought another. Now that makes my life so much easier.

Of course that presents a terrible problem. Where do I setup this second machine? My current workbench really didn't have room. So in another moment of weakness (and a few beers) I tore down the work bench and built another. But the truth is that one really didn't have room either because in the interim I bought a shotgun reloading machine. Sometimes I think I'm my own worst enemy. So I build a small bench on wheels using T-Tracks to secure the different devices. And I set up the gaps in the T-Tracks in a way that allows the quick removal and addition of another reloading machine. And so far that works well... until I change my mind again.

You see they say that the universe is always expanding. And that's what happens in reloading too. It never ends. And that's not a bad thing. Because in the end it's all about spending more time in the basement to avoid the evils that await me upstairs.



Rich

 

[beaker]

I would say go with the 650 with a case feeder if you could afford either one. The casefeeder is full of awesome, and the 550 case feeder only works for pistol calibers, when it works. With the high version of the strong mount the top of the 650 case feeder is 40" from the be bench top.

For me it isn't necessarily about production rates , once you use a case feeder you won't want to go without it.

Most non-dillon dies work fine, maybe not Lee IIRC. I use Hornady dies and they work just fine. I also got the dillon crimp dies to separate the seat and crimp operations.

I would strongly recommend the "as it should be" upgrade as described on Brian Enos. These should be standard and are must haves - strong mount, bullet tray and roller handle.

A new tool head with its own powder drop is the way the 650 was really designed to be optimal. It doesn't take very long to change over calibers at all. So in the buy once cry ounce philosophy get the 650 and don't look back.

 

[headednorth]

Well, thanks for all the replies everyone. Its good to hear real experiences rather than just trying to guess how it would be. Ive sat at my kitchen table and sort of pantomimed the motions of each press to get a feel of how it would be. (right hand set case, left hand set bullet, right hand pull/push, left hand index vs left hand set bullet, right hand pull/push) 650 routine seems a lot more simple, but Ive seen guys online who have the 550 routine down pretty good. I assume its just a matter of repetition and building up muscle memory. I know just with my single stage Ive gotten a lot faster than I was.

Ive priced out both with the set up that I want and the 650 is coming up on double the price. On one hand, it would be nice to crank out close to a thousand rounds and be done for a while, but on the other, I'd kind of miss having something to do. (reloading wise) With what Im shooting now, I think 1k an hour or so is overkill. Even if I got into competition at some point and could use the capacity, it seems at worst with the 550, I may be thinking it would be nice to have a 650, but I wouldnt be kicking myself for not having the 650.

So between price, the amount of shooting Im currently doing, and the amount of time available for reloading, Im going to go with the 550. Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to reply.

 

[headednorth]

@ eisenhow...( or anyone else who ran a 550 without the strong mount)

"I ran my 550 without a strong mount and a ball handle for years while sitting down."

Couple of questions.

-With the strong mount, were you able to get a good eyeball on the case to check the powder level this way without stretching and craning your neck?

-Without the strong mount, were you able to push all the way down on the downstroke without leaning over or dropping your shoulder?

Is use of the SM really just a matter of whether you prefer to load sitting or standing? SM for standing, no SM for sitting?

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

@ eisenhow...( or anyone else who ran a 550 without the strong mount)

"I ran my 550 without a strong mount and a ball handle for years while sitting down."

Couple of questions.

-With the strong mount, were you able to get a good eyeball on the case to check the powder level this way without stretching and craning your neck?

-Without the strong mount, were you able to push all the way down on the downstroke without leaning over or dropping your shoulder?

Is use of the SM really just a matter of whether you prefer to load sitting or standing? SM for standing, no SM for sitting?

I prefer standing, so with my bench I prefer the strong mount.... I started with the strong mount and slowly added all of the other "stuff" to the press bullet trays, tool holders ect.... I didn't "need" that stuff but I like having them

 

[EddieCoyle]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I've personally witnessed two (probably double-charge related) kBs, and both times the ammo was made on a 550.

 

[headednorth]

Do you think it was an issue specific to that press though? Seems like operator error no matter which press its done on. I would think, (Ive never loaded on a progressive) that setting the bullet on top of the charged case is the perfect opportunity to eyeball the powder level.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Do you think it was an issue specific to that press though? Seems like operator error no matter which press its done on. I would think, (Ive never loaded on a progressive) that setting the bullet on top of the charged case is the perfect opportunity to eyeball the powder level.

Bingo.

No tool can prevent stupid. Play with explosives while being stupid and pay the price.

 

[Woodstock]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I've personally witnessed two (probably double-charge related) kBs, and both times the ammo was made on a 550.

It can happen. Nothing's idiot-proof, but a double charge suggests some serious operator error. You would either have to crank it twice without moving the shell plate or step away from the press leaving a shell under the powder drop and then return and crank it the second time. When I first got my 550 I recognized that the powder drop stage was the place where trouble lurked, so I made it a hard and fast rule that any interruption in the process meant a removal of the case and either weighing the charge and/or just dumping it back into the powder measure. I just never, ever leave a case in that slot. With the manual indexing on the 550 it's easy to back it out and start over.
The other way a case might get overloaded is if the powder bridged in the measure or the funnel and then dropped multiple doses at once, and that could happen with any progressive, but it would take some very chunky powder or an obstruction like a piece of paper in the tube.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

. Ive heard that non-Dillon dies have to be screwed almost all the way into the press to be at the correct height, not leaving much room for further adjustment.

Dillon will give you a free shim that goes at the top of the main shaft and under the shell plate carrier that solves this problem very nicely.

I may be thinking it would be nice to have a 650, but I wouldnt be kicking myself for not having the 650.

Get the 1050 and you will never worry about having not bought high enough on the food chain.

 

[headednorth]

Dillon will give you a free shim that goes at the top of the main shaft and under the shell plate carrier that solves this problem very nicely.

Good to know, thanks.

Get the 1050 and you will never worry about having not bought high enough on the food chain.

If money was no object, I'd go for it. But it is, so Im not, lol.

 

[EddieCoyle]

It can happen. Nothing's idiot-proof, but a double charge suggests some serious operator error.

It was definitely operator error. If by serious, you mean that the operator was seriously negligent, I guess that's debatable.

My point is that with a 550, all it takes is a single lapse in concentration or a phone call or interruption at the wrong time, and someone that's loaded 100,000 rounds without a hiccup can end up with a double charge and a kaBoom.

The same thing is much much harder to do with a 650.

The two guys that I know that did it are conscientious and had a system in place too. Shit still happened.

 

[Malodave]

I just got my 650 mounted to my work table with the case feeder. I resized
1700 cases to 300 Blackout in 1:20. I used Lee dies before but the cases would
not fit in a Sheridan Case Gauge. So I picked up a set of RCBS Small Base Dies
for the 300 Blackout and .223.

Don't use Lee dies for case forming was the answer I got from Lee. Even a factory
case run through their die would not fit in the Sheridan gauge. So I have abandoned
using any Lee dies. I have a set of Redding .223 but they were not the small base
version so I got the RCBS small base dies to replace them too.

I have three extra tool heads, two with the Quick change sets on them. The
Third I have a universal decapper die on it.

Malodave

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

It was definitely operator error. If by serious, you mean that the operator was seriously negligent, I guess that's debatable.

My point is that with a 550, all it takes is a single lapse in concentration or a phone call or interruption at the wrong time, and someone that's loaded 100,000 rounds without a hiccup can end up with a double charge and a kaBoom.

The same thing is much much harder to do with a 650.

The two guys that I know that did it are conscientious and had a system in place too. Shit still happened.

So If I answer my phone and loose concentration while driving is it my cars fault for allowing me to drive into oncoming traffic?

What you have just described is a common scenario with many tools, and is not a result of a defect in the tool but in the operator. I have witnessed more than one industrial accident that has transpired exactly as you have said. Most accidents are not with inexperienced users, as they maintain a high level of respect for what they are doing. They are far more likely to happen to the experienced user with many years of experience on the given tool or process. I saw one guy with 30 years of experience in high end furniture and cabinet making loose two fingers on a $35000 sliding table saw. It wasn't the sliding table saws fault that he ran his hand through it, nor was it the company's safety policy's or OSHA's... The user disregarded standard safety procedures and was too pre occupied with finishing the task and made a costly mistake. There was nothing "debatable" is this negligence is this scenario and neither was is the scenario you posted. If your not going to follow the rules that keep you safe, eventually you will pay the price.

 

[Gammon]

I'll probably get flamed for this but I've personally witnessed two (probably double-charge related) kBs, and both times the ammo was made on a 550.

This is the problem with manual indexing. I had it occur once many years ago with my 550. I still love the press and find that it easily puts out 400 rounds per hour.

The case feeder is a POS, I regret buying mine. I should have known better because the 550 case feeder hit the market about 20 years ago and went nowhere. The more recent Dillon case feeder is supposedly "new and improved", but is still a POS.

For high volume I would go with a 650 and case feeder.

 

[M1911]

It takes you over 10 seconds to place a bullet, place a case and pull a lever? 600 rounds an hour would be tough without an extra set of hands on the 550, but the thought that there "NF Way" more than 300 rounds an hour is obtainable is pretty silly

Starting with loading primer tubes and ending with rounds in plastic boxes, I can load about 300 per hour. 550 an hour all in? I stand by my NF way.

 

[M1911]

-With the strong mount, were you able to get a good eyeball on the case to check the powder level this way without stretching and craning your neck?

I have the strong mount. The height really isn't much of an issue with visually checking the cases. The issue is the cases themselves. Particularly .38 Spcl, which is a long skinny cartridge that is only about 1/3 filled when using most powders. .45 ACP cases are easy to see into. 9mm is a bit harder, but OK.

I don't load rifle, so can't comment on that.

 

[M1911]

Do you think it was an issue specific to that press though? Seems like operator error no matter which press its done on. I would think, (Ive never loaded on a progressive) that setting the bullet on top of the charged case is the perfect opportunity to eyeball the powder level.

Presses with more stations allow you to run a powder check die. With only 4 stations on the 550, you can't run a powder check die.

The squib round I had shooting .38 Spcl during the CT State IDPA championship clearly indicated to me that I can screw up while loading on my 550. A powder check die would have prevented that.

While I like my 550, I sure would prefer a press with a case feeder and at least one (preferably two) more stations.