Varmint
NES Member
I think ARs are like PCs, it's tough to build one on the low end and compete with manufacturers. In the mid range or high end, build it yourself.
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Ruger AR-556
- Thread starter Waher
- Start date
I think ARs are like PCs, it's tough to build one on the low end and compete with manufacturers. In the mid range or high end, build it yourself.
I handled one at four seasons last week and was quite impressed with it, couldn't believe it was sub-$600 new. One of my favorite features on it is the screw on delta ring so you don't need to fight with the typical spring loaded one to get handguards on and off. About time!
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I shot a few .223 and 300 blackout AR's today at the range. Both were custom with Anderson lowers with really nice handguard/rails, triggers, muzzle breaks, red dots etc. Guy told me he had $800-$900 into it which didn't seem too bad. I suppose in the mean time while I wait for my Henry to sell, I could try to price out a decent budget build?
Build, don't buy. I've got the tools and the time. It'll be a lot of fun. Trust me....lol.
You can absolutely do that. Get one of the Anderson lowers and LPK from the buy, a PSA upper and you can get the other stuff from eBay, Amazon or the classifieds here. You going to the range tomorrow? We can talk. It's fun.
dcmdon
NES Member
For me the savings is this. I want every AR I own to have:
1) ambi selector
2) match style trigger. It doesn't have to be a Geissele, but a $80 RRA is fine.
3) grip without finger grooves
4) Freefloat tube. Rail only on top. I don't care if its MLock or
5) adjustable gas block
If I buy most production guns, I end up spending 300+ dollars and 10 hours taking things off and putting them on.
I probably have a dozen USGI triggers kicking around along wit the USGI grips and single sided selectors.
But again, for a new AR owner, having a gun that is 100% warrantied is a great thing, while he figures out what he likes.
I still have my first AR. Of course this year marks 25 years since I bought it. Its an Colt AR15 A2 HBar. Old school. I did everything from take a carbine course to shoot in a CMP match with that gun.
Don
My only comment on this is based on an anecdotal experience with one example of this rifle.
My friend got one of these and it was clearly under-gassed. It was constantly short stroking, leading to empty chambers or malfunctions. With some mags it couldn't feed at all with any ammo. With 30 round PMAGs (but not 20 rounders) it would feed 5.56 XM193 reliably, but would fail with .223 55gr. The gun really needed to be sent back but he just said "meh, I'll just use 30 round PMAGs with XM193".
I liked the idea of the gun as a cheap spare, but would need to hear some first hand accounts from other people (who weren't sent the gun by Ruger) before I'd trust it now.
My friend got one of these and it was clearly under-gassed. It was constantly short stroking, leading to empty chambers or malfunctions. With some mags it couldn't feed at all with any ammo. With 30 round PMAGs (but not 20 rounders) it would feed 5.56 XM193 reliably, but would fail with .223 55gr. The gun really needed to be sent back but he just said "meh, I'll just use 30 round PMAGs with XM193".
I liked the idea of the gun as a cheap spare, but would need to hear some first hand accounts from other people (who weren't sent the gun by Ruger) before I'd trust it now.
Retired-LEO
NES Member
RUGER Bring back the PC9!
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Aren't you like 9 years late .
dcmdon
NES Member
Its a standard direct impingement AR with a non-standard sight base. There shouldn't be any surprises.
There was one at outback a few weeks ago. I thought the sights where a bit cheap looking feeling.
Other than that I can't judge it till I actually use one.
I would feel more comfortable with the ruger vs a 600$ PSA
Other than that I can't judge it till I actually use one.
I would feel more comfortable with the ruger vs a 600$ PSA
dcmdon
NES Member
As well you should. Lifetime warranty and SR pays shipping both ways.
dcmdon
NES Member
It depends what you want. I picked up a PSA upper with BCG and CH for $269 shipped last year. Its got a couple of thousand rounds down it mostly full auto, 30 rounds at a time. I t has run flawlessly with anything brass cased. Wolf, it chokes on when it gets hot. Which it does quickly when people do mag dumps.
It is a serious tactical machine that I use to put smiles on people's face at the range. As such its details are shrouded in secrecy. The SOP is BYOA (Bring your own ammo).
Its a toy. Its cheap, and it runs. And as something I intended to abuse, I didn't see the point in stepping up for quality. Although its quality has greatly exceeded my expectations.
I think the thing about cheap stuff from companies like PSA (or Oly Arms years ago) is not that they make crap. Its that for the pricepoint, they do not QC anything. So you may get a ringer or you may get a lemon. What you get by paying more is partly consistency.
Don
It is a serious tactical machine that I use to put smiles on people's face at the range. As such its details are shrouded in secrecy. The SOP is BYOA (Bring your own ammo).
Its a toy. Its cheap, and it runs. And as something I intended to abuse, I didn't see the point in stepping up for quality. Although its quality has greatly exceeded my expectations.
I think the thing about cheap stuff from companies like PSA (or Oly Arms years ago) is not that they make crap. Its that for the pricepoint, they do not QC anything. So you may get a ringer or you may get a lemon. What you get by paying more is partly consistency.
Don
Agree....and a complete upper for 269$ that goes bang I'm all for....
On the flip side my buddy bought a PSA upper with the FN machine gun barrel and after much effort even with reloads its a 4 moa battle ax. He was crossing his fingers for 2moa or slightly better. The trigger he got from PSA sucks balls also. Has a speed bump and gravel creep before the mushy release.
Not much of a bargain for him....it does go hang with out issue though.
dcmdon
NES Member
Its impossible to judge whether your buddy's upper is shooting properly.
4 moa - doesn't mean much unless we know the following.
1) what is the ammo
2) what is the optic
3) how skilled is your friend
4) how are you measuring this? There is a huge difference between 4 moa as an average of 10 shot groups and 4 moa as a cherry picked best group from a dozen 3 shot groups. (which is how many internet commados do it)
Also, the FN machine gun barrels have extra thick chrome lining WHICH HURTS ACCURACY.
That barrel is designed for durability and resistance to abuse. Not accuracy.
4 moa is within spec.
It sounds like your friend made a poorly informed decision. If he wanted a reasonably priced upper with great accuracy he should have looked at Rock River Arms. Or at the very least an un-chromed barrel, which for a given price will be more accurate.
Don
4 moa - doesn't mean much unless we know the following.
1) what is the ammo
2) what is the optic
3) how skilled is your friend
4) how are you measuring this? There is a huge difference between 4 moa as an average of 10 shot groups and 4 moa as a cherry picked best group from a dozen 3 shot groups. (which is how many internet commados do it)
Also, the FN machine gun barrels have extra thick chrome lining WHICH HURTS ACCURACY.
That barrel is designed for durability and resistance to abuse. Not accuracy.
4 moa is within spec.
It sounds like your friend made a poorly informed decision. If he wanted a reasonably priced upper with great accuracy he should have looked at Rock River Arms. Or at the very least an un-chromed barrel, which for a given price will be more accurate.
Don
He did a decent job testing in MHO. He gets 2moa and better with his sw sport and uses a Nikon P223 scope. I won't argue 4moa is with in spec for your average AR.
I was talking with a ret. USMC armor and he was around for the M14 to M16 transition he showed us a manual for the M16 and it stated that 8moa was GTG for the M16 on its early introduction.
It's all good... some get better some don't.
Guns and ammo are all different. My heavy match barrel AR absolutely sucks with wolf. Functions fine but I couldn't hold 6" with that ammo vs,my base RRA A2 which shoots wolf in the ten ring consistently prone supported?
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dcmdon
NES Member
I've never seen a 1:7 chrome lined military style upper that shot much better than 4 moa with military style 55 gr ammo.
1:9 like the Rock River can do much better with the inexpensive 55 gr mil ammo. And even better with handloads.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but I have several thousand 62 gr green tip pulled bullets that I bought years ago. My (pre take over) Bushmaster CMP gun absolutely LOVES these bullets in my handloads over Tac powder. Yes, 68s are more accurate when I strap a 24x scope on it and shoot from a rest.
But when you consider the fact that 62s are one fifth the cost of good match bullets and my relatively horrible skills, I'm good with the 62s, which average a bit over 1 moa out of the unlined chromemoly 1:9 barrel on the Bushmaster.
Don
1:9 like the Rock River can do much better with the inexpensive 55 gr mil ammo. And even better with handloads.
I'll probably get flamed for this, but I have several thousand 62 gr green tip pulled bullets that I bought years ago. My (pre take over) Bushmaster CMP gun absolutely LOVES these bullets in my handloads over Tac powder. Yes, 68s are more accurate when I strap a 24x scope on it and shoot from a rest.
But when you consider the fact that 62s are one fifth the cost of good match bullets and my relatively horrible skills, I'm good with the 62s, which average a bit over 1 moa out of the unlined chromemoly 1:9 barrel on the Bushmaster.
Don
I have not seen 62(m855) bullets for much less than match in like 7 years.
heres what i been seeing and buying
Hornady bulk 55gn fmj .08 each in the 6000 bulk packs
unknown manufacture 62gn (SS109) .12 ea 4000 bulk pack
Hornady 68 gn match .13ea per 4500
noslers 15-17 ea
sierra....dont see many deals on them?
The days of cheap pulled bullets are gone.
I first started reloading for my garand in 2005 you could get pulled 30 cal bullets for like .06 and the new production was like .13 now pulled bullets semed to be mystical relics of the past and are as much as new production.
its all fun and finding a load your rifle really shines with is a good experience.....then you need to make sure you have plenty of those bullets and powder to last the life of the barrel!!!
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dcmdon
NES Member
Mac,
I've probably had these 62 gr bullets for more than 7 years. I'm a big believer in stocking up. I don't remember exactly how many I bought, but the back of my car was riding very very low. Enough for a decade of shooting.
A few years ago I got a deal on 45,000 primers. Then last year a friend was getting out of reloading and he sold me another 15,000 primers. They are in a couple of locations in CT. When I get low, I bring some back to my house in MA. But my cost was well under $20/thousand.
If you buy components $50 at a time you won't get any deals. But if you can lay down $1000 for supplies that will last you for years, you can get great deals.
Don
I've probably had these 62 gr bullets for more than 7 years. I'm a big believer in stocking up. I don't remember exactly how many I bought, but the back of my car was riding very very low. Enough for a decade of shooting.
A few years ago I got a deal on 45,000 primers. Then last year a friend was getting out of reloading and he sold me another 15,000 primers. They are in a couple of locations in CT. When I get low, I bring some back to my house in MA. But my cost was well under $20/thousand.
If you buy components $50 at a time you won't get any deals. But if you can lay down $1000 for supplies that will last you for years, you can get great deals.
Don
I try to buy in bulk as much as possible. I cant find enough people to go in on bulk purchase of bullets to get up over 50,000
as for primers,powder i bought enough to last many many years bullets to but I had to restock this year as after 6 years im getting nervously low, only a few thousand for each cal!
dcmdon
NES Member
Yup. S&W did some things in the name of efficiency that actually made the gun more accurate.
1) 5 R rifling
2) Melonited bbl inside and out.
3) No M204 grenade launcher cuts.
All those items made it a better rifle.
Unfortunately 5R rifling is gone as is meloniting. Although the current guns have S&W's version of melonite, which should be just as good. (Melonite is a name brand, like Kleenex)
Don
1) 5 R rifling
2) Melonited bbl inside and out.
3) No M204 grenade launcher cuts.
All those items made it a better rifle.
Unfortunately 5R rifling is gone as is meloniting. Although the current guns have S&W's version of melonite, which should be just as good. (Melonite is a name brand, like Kleenex)
Don
