S&W 1911 recoil spring

EddieA

EddieA

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I recently bought a clean looking used Smith full size stainless 1911. First trip to the range, it wouldn't cycle enough to eject the brass.
I was shooting light target loads that work just fine in my Gold Cup and Clark long slide.
No biggie, I'll just try a lighter recoil spring, I've got a few Wolff springs in stock.
To my surprise, when I removed the spring from the S&W, it was a lot shorter (at least an inch) than any 1911 spring in my collection.
My question... are Smith 1911 springs supposed to be like that? Or has someone been experimenting? I thought a 1911 was pretty much a 1911.
I put in a Wolff 12# spring, and will try it very soon for function.
 
The spring will compress with use, I see about 1/2 - 3/4 inch over about 5k rounds, many will replace the spring at that time. Springs are cheap, put in a new one and see what it does
 
It sounds like the stock spring (18 lbs) is too heavy for your target loads. I use a 14 lb spring with 170 PF ammo.
 
bill o said:
It sounds like the stock spring (18 lbs) is too heavy for your target loads. I use a 14 lb spring with 170 PF ammo.
Click to expand...

this or limpwristing or your ammo is too weak.

either way, I would run the gun with stock spring and factory ammo. the S&W 1911's usually have a pretty solid spring setup. i haven't had to tinker on them.

running a light recoil spring can generate issues such as excessive recoil, frame-slide contact and ejection/extractor problems.
 
Squib308 said:
. . . the S&W 1911's usually have a pretty solid spring setup. . . .
Click to expand...
Shooting 230gr ball (over 6.8gr of CFE pistol, not a puny load) in two new 5" S&W 1911's since last fall, I've had to change recoil springs in both of them. They were launching brass into the next county. With Wilson 18# springs they're behaving beautifully with that load.
 
BTW S&W has a lifetime no questions asked repair policy, so if you are having trouble you can just call them
and they will let you ship it and repair for free, in my experience. I bought a 1911 stainless used, and it had
FTE problems, they fixed it all up at no cost.
 
hminsky said:
BTW S&W has a lifetime no questions asked repair policy, so if you are having trouble you can just call them
and they will let you ship it and repair for free, in my experience. I bought a 1911 stainless used, and it had
FTE problems, they fixed it all up at no cost.
Click to expand...

Yeah but for a recoil spring a self repair is a better option, not worth the aggravation. For 1911 repairs I'd never send it back unless there was something fundamentally broken with the gun (bad fitment, bad parts, broken shit, etc. ) For "tweaky" stuff you're better off just fixing it yourself or having a local smith look at it. Particularly if it's intermittent... last thing you want to do is waste a month sending the gun out and getting a "did not fix, no problems found" or whatever.

-Mike
 
Cut out of work early and hit the range on the way home tonight.
Tried a 12# spring, just a little better, not much.
Popped in a 10# spring, maybe 70% operation now. Ejected brass (when it functions correctly) lands right at my feet.
My reloads (which work in my other four 1911's) are 185 gr. SWC over 4.5 gr. of 231.
Hammer spring too stiff? I've got another one in a magwell type housing, maybe I'll try that (was thinking of installing it anyway).
 
I've replaced many recoil spring and the spring was always much shorter than the new replacement. Recoil springs almost always take a set.
 
EddieA said:
Cut out of work early and hit the range on the way home tonight.
Tried a 12# spring, just a little better, not much.
Popped in a 10# spring, maybe 70% operation now. Ejected brass (when it functions correctly) lands right at my feet.
My reloads (which work in my other four 1911's) are 185 gr. SWC over 4.5 gr. of 231.
Hammer spring too stiff? I've got another one in a magwell type housing, maybe I'll try that (was thinking of installing it anyway).
Click to expand...

dude if a 10# spring is necessary then something is up with your handloads. would not run factory 230gr ball ammo through a 1911 with 10# spring.

again, if a firearm needs multiple levels of "fixing" to run a certain type of ammo then what's the common denominator?

- - - Updated - - -

Editor said:
Shooting 230gr ball (over 6.8gr of CFE pistol, not a puny load) in two new 5" S&W 1911's since last fall, I've had to change recoil springs in both of them. They were launching brass into the next county. With Wilson 18# springs they're behaving beautifully with that load.
Click to expand...

yes I had similar issues with Sig 1911 and OEM spring/rod.
the OP is going the other direction (i.e. lighter spring).
 
I don't think the ammo is the problem, as I mentioned, it runs just fine in all my other 1911's, including another Smith.
Empty cases are deposited right at my feet, pretty sure I read this is a too much spring issue. Of course the recoil spring isn't the only player here, but it seems to be the place to start.
Don't worry, I'd NEVER shoot 230gr. factory loads with a 10# spring. Just trying it out to see if it helps, pretty sure it's not the correct answer.
I'm just starting to look for a solution and know that there are many folks who know a boatload more than me.
Many thanks to all who are trying to help.
 
I don't have access to a chrono, but my Lymann's reloading manual shows it should be about 750 fps.
I've been using this load for bullseye shooting for years.
If, in fact, this gun is factory tuned for full power loads, am I wrong in thinking it can be set up for lighter loads without too much trouble?
 
S&W 1911 recoil spring

That is a mousefart load - I doubt you're even hitting 750 FPS. I would go to a 19 lb hammer spring next. It might break in over time but that should help you get there.

A newer tighter gun is going to have a hard time with powder puff loads. You have other 1911s so probably obvious, but go heavy on the lube until well broken in.
 
peterthefish said:
That is a mousefart load - I doubt you're even hitting 750 FPS. I would go to a 19 lb hammer spring next. It might break in over time but that should help you get there.

A newer tighter gun is going to have a hard time with powder puff loads. You have other 1911s so probably obvious, but go heavy on the lube until well broken in.
Click to expand...

4.5 gr of WW 231 with a 185 gr bullet is s light load. Sounds like the new gun might just need a break in. I would leave the hammer spring alone and do all of the tuning with the ammo and recoil spring.

PS some light weight synthetic motor oil (5 wt/50) might help.
 
Have you tried factory ammo in this gun?

Maybe a few boxes of factory ammo will break it in , then go back and try your light reloads

FWIW, my USPSA major load (230g at 735fps) will cycle an 18lb spring with brass neatly trickling out, but I run a 14lb because it feels better
 
SJan said:
Have you tried factory ammo in this gun?

Maybe a few boxes of factory ammo will break it in , then go back and try your light reloads

FWIW, my USPSA major load (230g at 735fps) will cycle an 18lb spring with brass neatly trickling out, but I run a 14lb because it feels better
Click to expand...

18 lbs is overkill. The stock spring in a Colt 45 ACP is 16 lbs. Stronger springs will result in more muzzle flip.
 
SJan said:
More like more muzzle dip. I've never use an 18-pound spring extensively it was only for experiment
Click to expand...

You are right, the actual effect is muzzle dip, but it appears to be muzzle flip to the shooter, or at least that is how I perceive it.
 
Just did a little research. Wolff lists the standard recoil spring for the Colt 1911 in 45 ACP at 16 lbs. Smith and Wesson likewise uses a 16 lb spring. You don't need a stronger spring unless you are using some really hot ammo.
 
Gammon said:
Just did a little research. Wolff lists the standard recoil spring for the Colt 1911 in 45 ACP at 16 lbs. Smith and Wesson likewise uses a 16 lb spring. You don't need a stronger spring unless you are using some really hot ammo.
Click to expand...

Some of the smiths I've messed with felt heavier than a 16 lb spring but maybe its my imagination...

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Some of the smiths I've messed with felt heavier than a 16 lb spring but maybe its my imagination...

-Mike
Click to expand...

16 lb is standard for Colt and gun makers tend to err on the side of caution so that their products are protected. I had a gunsmith build me a 45 Colt long slide a long time ago with an 18 lb spring. The muzzle flip was so bad I took the long slide top end off and added a five inch slide with a comp. The long slide upper went into the safe for over ten years. I later reunited the long slide with its original lower and went to work. The gun works just fine now (shoots like a five inch) with a 12 lb spring. This is with USPSA major loads (200 gr bullet at 875 fps).
 
OP here...
I tried a different main spring/magwell that was in my spare parts bin, that made a big difference but didn't completely cure all ills.
Loaded up a few different recipes and went to the range again.
Winning combo was a 200gr. swc over 5.0gr. of 231, with a 12# recoil spring.
Worked fine every time. Now to load up a good supply and start making noise!
Thanks to all.
 

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