Yup, I slipped a couple of times, and called it quits before I stripped the screw too much, hopefully. Damn Imperial units. In my mind, this makes the imperial British responsible for the grittiness of my trigger.
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S&W M&P APEX DCAEK Review: Update!
- Thread starter MassMark
- Start date
I haven't had much luck substituting the metric allens for the tiny SAE ones - the ones that fit always slip on me, and usually trash the fastener.
On the other hand, once the screw is loosened, the last time I took an M&P rear sight off I used a table instead of a vice. Left some slide marks, and the sight wasn't a super-tight one to begin with, but it worked fine. I believe it's left to right removing, right to left installing. If you can't mark up a table, a hockey puck makes a nice work surface.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Correct.
Did you chaps see the recent page with the free download for the M&P Armorer pdf?
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...mp-P-Pistol-Armorer-s-Manual?highlight=manual
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So sights came right off with a steel punch and few good mallet blows. In goes the USB, and WOW that trigger is perftect now. Count me as an Apex fan.
However, getting new sights on... not so easy. I'm dangerously close to destroying the sight with ever increasing hammer blows, and have gone through two punches already so... we'll put that off until later.
However, getting new sights on... not so easy. I'm dangerously close to destroying the sight with ever increasing hammer blows, and have gone through two punches already so... we'll put that off until later.
KMM696
NES Member
Aftermarket sights are typically a little oversize to compensate for sloppy slide dovetails. Use very fine sandpaper on a flat surface to take a little off the bottom of the sight, try fitting the sight every couple passes. If you go too far and the sight gets too loose, dimpling the bottom with a center punch in a couple places will tighten it back up. It shouldn't be so tight that it eats any more punches, though!
KMM696
NES Member
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Fitting sights is one of the biggest pains to do with gun smithing.
In most cases, when I install Warren rear sights, I have to bevel the sharp edges of the sight and the top of the dove tail to make them fit more easily. I'll typically use some silver anti seize on the rear sights to prevent galling during smashing......I mean tapping into place.
In most cases, when I install Warren rear sights, I have to bevel the sharp edges of the sight and the top of the dove tail to make them fit more easily. I'll typically use some silver anti seize on the rear sights to prevent galling during smashing......I mean tapping into place.
Jbarila
NES Member
9c COMPLETE! Second kit was very easy. I wrapped the slide in masking tape, put it in the vice between two pieces of pine. Since I had two of the site tools supplied with the kit I used one to drive out the sight. believe it or not one sharp rap and the site moved. Didnt even ruin the plastic tool! Going back in I used a brass drift covered with masking tape. I dont think the whole thing took 10 minutes including the hard sear.
It goes without saying the trigger is perfect.
It goes without saying the trigger is perfect.
radioman
NES Member
Nice products!!!
I just installed the Comp AEK and the RAM in my Ma S&W M&P9. Trigger went from 10.5lbs to 3.5lbs!!! Totally different gun! The gun was unshootable before the kit install. Try curling a 10lb bag of potato's with your trigger finger? How many times can you do it with out getting frustrated? My M&P9 was a safe queen before the install. Now I've already put 500 rounds through it with many more planned! I highly recommend these kits for any Ma M&P9 or other M&P that you want to improve the trigger. Those 500 rounds were shot immediately after the install(1hr) with not one FTF or any other malfunction!! Matter of fact my buddy with his 9mm(not a smith) had two FTF. I picked up his duds and they both fired in my reworked M&P! Took me two hours to do the job. Would have been 90min if the rear sight came loose easier than it did. I had to make a special punch to get it off with out marring up the gun. Other than that small problem(not apex's fault) no troubles at all. Apex products are highly recommended in my book!!! Nice job Apex! Thank you!
I just installed the Comp AEK and the RAM in my Ma S&W M&P9. Trigger went from 10.5lbs to 3.5lbs!!! Totally different gun! The gun was unshootable before the kit install. Try curling a 10lb bag of potato's with your trigger finger? How many times can you do it with out getting frustrated? My M&P9 was a safe queen before the install. Now I've already put 500 rounds through it with many more planned! I highly recommend these kits for any Ma M&P9 or other M&P that you want to improve the trigger. Those 500 rounds were shot immediately after the install(1hr) with not one FTF or any other malfunction!! Matter of fact my buddy with his 9mm(not a smith) had two FTF. I picked up his duds and they both fired in my reworked M&P! Took me two hours to do the job. Would have been 90min if the rear sight came loose easier than it did. I had to make a special punch to get it off with out marring up the gun. Other than that small problem(not apex's fault) no troubles at all. Apex products are highly recommended in my book!!! Nice job Apex! Thank you!
Radio,
Thank you for your post, I'm glad you like the results. Those rear sights can be a huge pain to remove and reinstall, but on the bright side, once you get it set in place, it's not moving without permission.
Scott
Thank you for your post, I'm glad you like the results. Those rear sights can be a huge pain to remove and reinstall, but on the bright side, once you get it set in place, it's not moving without permission.
Scott
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This is kind of dissapointing for me. I have read this entire thread. I am a newbie, and I am awaiting my MA class a permit. I have been looking and learning alot lately. I really like the M&P9 or .40 for my first gun. (Hopefully, my last also).
All this trigger talk has got me totally unsure again, thanks to this stupid state that I live in. I cannot accept spending $500-600 and having to take a brand new gun somewhere to have it taken apart and have aftermarket parts installed just to make it smooth, usable and more accurate. How did these rediculous laws come to be in the first place?
I work and live near the S&W plant. I was hoping to buy from them. I have called the shooting center a couple of times with questions, and each time I get someone who obviously doesn't want to be bothered with my newbie questions.
I hope to get my permit soon, but I am as confused as ever as to what to buy.
My other interst is the Beretta 92 FS. I undersand that the trigger action is double-single with a safety. Perhaps I will look for a Beretta dealer near me, if their is one.
Thanks to all of you guys who shared their experience in this thread. You are all very knowledgeable, Eric
All this trigger talk has got me totally unsure again, thanks to this stupid state that I live in. I cannot accept spending $500-600 and having to take a brand new gun somewhere to have it taken apart and have aftermarket parts installed just to make it smooth, usable and more accurate. How did these rediculous laws come to be in the first place?
I work and live near the S&W plant. I was hoping to buy from them. I have called the shooting center a couple of times with questions, and each time I get someone who obviously doesn't want to be bothered with my newbie questions.
I hope to get my permit soon, but I am as confused as ever as to what to buy.
My other interst is the Beretta 92 FS. I undersand that the trigger action is double-single with a safety. Perhaps I will look for a Beretta dealer near me, if their is one.
Thanks to all of you guys who shared their experience in this thread. You are all very knowledgeable, Eric
Well, I do wish you the best. I like to support S&W. I've worked there and have good friends who still work there.
That being said, if you live in Springfield, you may be out of luck with getting an M&P all together... [sad2]
Check out this thread if you have not!
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/8703-Guide-to-gun-rights-in-your-Massachusetts-town?highlight=massachusetts+LTC+towns
I do not like to support S&W, but my M&P (with Apex fire control) isn't going anywhere, and I'll likely own at least one more sometime in the future. That should tell you something.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
why not?
I had the same dilemma. Here was my experience:
I wanted a constant pull, polymer frame pistol to supplement my Sigs. I have had issues gripping certain pistols because of my hand size (especially Sigs with the DA), but when I grabbed the brand new M&P, it just felt right. Even with the mushy, gritty, MA trigger, the frame felt great in hand. I ended up picking one up from Four Seasons with 3 Mags (yes, three mags) for around $480.
I have five thumbs on each hand, and I was impatient, so I asked John at Remsport (Ludlow) to install the APEX DCAEK and the RAM for me. He did it for around $50 + parts. He installed, function checked it, and we were good to go.
This pistol is absolutely incredible now. First time from a holster the sights lined up quickly and the 5.5 lb pull was very smooth,crisp - no sight misalignment, and a relatively short, audible reset.
All I can say is that I spent less than $650 on this pistol. Anything you look at, I would recommend you compare to that baseline.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Springfield will issue a Class A with no problems. It will almost definitely be restricted, though. I know some people have successfully received a "protection" restriction, which is essentially ALP by another name.
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Ochmude, No I have not. All I have done so far is shop online and in the stores. I have handled them both in the stores. I am a big guy with big hands, so they both fit me well. I have said that I have no expereince yet, and I do not plan this to be a big time consuming activity either.
I'm simply up in the air with deciding on the trigger design, and why someone chooses one design over another.
I want to carry it safely with me when I go hiking, and occassionally practice with it at the range.
Sheepdog, I live in Palmer, so I guess I'll be OK.
Can someone tell me if a certain type is better than another for taking with me on the trail?
Take care, Eric
I'm simply up in the air with deciding on the trigger design, and why someone chooses one design over another.
I want to carry it safely with me when I go hiking, and occassionally practice with it at the range.
Sheepdog, I live in Palmer, so I guess I'll be OK.
Can someone tell me if a certain type is better than another for taking with me on the trail?
Take care, Eric
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If you want to head out to exit 2, I'd be happy to let you run my M&P9. It was well-worth the extra expense to put in the Apex. When you are deciding between a 92 and an M&P - you are deciding on completely different guns, with the only similarities being the ammunition. Do I wish that Smith and Wesson would just put Apex sears, or at least a non-MiM sear in at the factory? Sure. However, they do not and adding the Apex kit still makes the Smith and Wesson M&P a decent value for a striker-fired gun.
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Mark, I understand that they are very different guns. My question that I can't seem to get answered is why would I choose one over the other. What is the pro vs. con between an M&P or the 92FS? Why would you want the double single design vs. the striker fired design?
Thankyou for your patience and assistance, Eric
Thankyou for your patience and assistance, Eric
an M&P pro is that it is very ambidextrous/lefty friendly - personally I like the ergonomics of it, the 3 grip sizes are easy to swap out, no problems with slide locking, disassembly, etc. There's no safety lever to remember if it's engaged or not - at least on most models, some do have a safety lever. Another point is the trigger pull/let off is exactly the same for every shot.
I have limited experience with the 92's and I personally did not shoot well with them. That said I had about 3k rounds through my 40c at the time.
One detractor is the open top of the 92's - hot barrels burn bare hands. They have the SA/DA thing going on which is something to learn. That said they are accurate to say the least.
Do some homework too an check out accessories like holsters, etc for them - I've found 92s are everywhere and M&Ps have are somewhat limited - holsters for instance. Every mfgr seems to have a model 92 in every config they offer where M&Ps are not quite expansive yet. ymmv
Look at the little details if you're trying to decide which to choose - weight if you're gonna ccw for instance
a trip to a range and do some sxs comparisons would help you greatly, not just finger banging them in a store.
I have limited experience with the 92's and I personally did not shoot well with them. That said I had about 3k rounds through my 40c at the time.
One detractor is the open top of the 92's - hot barrels burn bare hands. They have the SA/DA thing going on which is something to learn. That said they are accurate to say the least.
Do some homework too an check out accessories like holsters, etc for them - I've found 92s are everywhere and M&Ps have are somewhat limited - holsters for instance. Every mfgr seems to have a model 92 in every config they offer where M&Ps are not quite expansive yet. ymmv
Look at the little details if you're trying to decide which to choose - weight if you're gonna ccw for instance
a trip to a range and do some sxs comparisons would help you greatly, not just finger banging them in a store.
My personal recommendation....though jaded by what I do for a living....is to get M&P. The muzzle flip is less due to the lower bore axis, the trigger is easily enough made better by installing a handful of parts and the swappable grips make it very convenient to match to the shooter.
The M&P is lighter and more simple as well. I learned to shoot (that is to say shoot well) with a Sig P220 that is a DA/SA...Mastering the first shot DA is a huge pain that you don't have to deal with if you use an M&P or other striker fired gun.
Just my thoughts.
Scott @ Apex
The M&P is lighter and more simple as well. I learned to shoot (that is to say shoot well) with a Sig P220 that is a DA/SA...Mastering the first shot DA is a huge pain that you don't have to deal with if you use an M&P or other striker fired gun.
Just my thoughts.
Scott @ Apex
I recently took my new 40c out to the range and found the muzzle flip to be relatively pronounced (to be unscientific: gnarly) but maybe that was due to the worst trigger pull I've experienced in a firearm, ever. Although, I would tend to believe it if Scott @ APEX thinks it's less than comparable 40's. It just seemed pretty snappy to me.
If it wasn't for the second blizzard in 3 weeks I'd probably have received and would be installing my APEX DCAEK right now!
If it wasn't for the second blizzard in 3 weeks I'd probably have received and would be installing my APEX DCAEK right now!
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Once you do, you'll notice an entirely different gun....
OMFG! I finally got around to putting in my "APEX M&P Competition Action Enhancement Kit" & the "APEX M&P RAM" into my M&P9L this evening. It's got a free state trigger so the effect wasn't as dramatic as going from a MA trigger but I LOVE it. The two biggest improvements are the shorter reset (thanks to the APEX sear) and the awesome positive reset (thanks to the RAM). It was a little tricky getting everything lined up to get the trigger pivot pin back in but everything else went smoothly. I can't wait to shoot tomorrow.
