S&W M&P9fs: Greg Derr vs. APEX DCAEK

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danashan

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Hi all,

I'll be getting S&W M&P9fs and will be doing the trigger job on it. I did shoot 150 rounds from a rented one, and while I really liked the gun, its MA trigger did make my hand sore.
The 2 routes I see for making the gun more pleasant and usable for matches are trigger job by Greg Derr and APEX DCAEK set (I don't need a 3lbs trigger, I think, too dangerous). Both will run me about the same in cost. APEX will require me doing my first gunsmith job on my first gun (doable, but may not be the best idea) but everyone seems to be raving about the outcome. I don't know what Greg Derr actually does and how it compares to the APEX.

Any thoughts and/or experiences will be appreciated.

Danashan
 
Well, I will say that I have taken pistols (not M&Ps) to Gregg. He has not only replaced parts to improve trigger pull from the MA requirment, but did real gunsmithing to smooth parts and improve the overall feel. So I have a trigger that is not just light, but much smoother as well.
 
I have a full size M&P that LaRocca did. I have an M&P compact that Derr did. I've dry fired a couple M&P's with the APEX kit. Considering the costs and the actual trigger my recommendation in decreasing preference:

APEX
LaRocca
Derr
 
I haven't use any of the above, but my M&P40 from Burwell shoots like a dream and the M&P9 worked on by Dave Santurri isn't far behind.
 
Thanks for all the suggestions. They are greatly appreciated.
Vellnueve, do you mind giving me an idea what Dave Santurri charged for trigger job and how different was it from Burwell's work? Burwell looks really good, except that the gun has to be shipped. I can go to Dave Santurri myself, especially since I go to AFS for practice.
 
Santurri charges about $90 or so. The trigger is very smooth. The Burwell job is better IMO but I'm happy with both.
 
Am in the process of writing a review on the Apex trigger kit...I have neither a Greg Derr, Santurri, LaRoca or Burwell trigger job to compare it to, but my reaction to the first trigger pull since the install was: [smile] This remained with me throughout the 100-rounds I fired through it. Simply put: Night and day. Went from a MA 10+ pound trigger pull, with lots of gritty travel and a "teeth grit" to drop the firing pin, to a smooth 5lb pull - still with initial first round travel, but truly remarkable reset... Apex is simply awesome...Transformed the M&P9f completely...
 
What you get.

I guess I should chime in here. What I do is not a black art. I refine all the fit and interrelationship of all the trigger parts in the M&P to the customers desire. 5# 4.5# 4# or 3# Same price $75. I also test fire each gun 20 rounds. Next I offer a 30 day window to have the trigger lightened at no cost. I prefer to have shooters comfortable with their guns and able to make shots as planned. The M&P is a great gun I have worked on hundreds of them. They are not and never will be high end glass break 1911 style triggers. It's just the way they are designed- Glock like, but not a Glock.
Drop in parts are fine, but think what you get. Repackaged Smith and Wesson parts, and no service. Some guys want to charge $50 to put in $10 worth of parts sold for $80. When things go wrong , ship the gun for $40.

I know Dave and Mike do great work and stand behind their work as I do. They also support the Mass. shooting sports like I do. We are there if you need us, when you need us. If you are a DIYS person that's great , we answer your questions too.

Sometimes you have to look at the whole package to see the value, not just the shiny chrome parts.

Shoot well, Greg
 
My 2 cents.
Had my M&P 40 fs done by Gregg. Had a 4.5 lb trigger and a fiber optic sight added.
It's like a completely different gun. Very happy customer. Highly recommend.
Mike
 
I'd like to make a quick correction on a previous post. All of the Apex Drop in parts for the M&P are 100% manufactured by us. None of them are factory parts that have been worked over or other wise modified in any way. Also, according to Smith & Wesson Customer Service, the installation of Apex parts into an M&P does not void the factory warranty.
 
I just put the Apex Sear and USB into my M&P9. The trigger was at 10.2 lbs out of the box and gritty with no decernable reset. Now the trigger is at 4.2 lbs, smooth as silk and you can hear and feel the reset. I am very impressed!
Probably not as good as a Gunsmiths work but for me its perfect.
 
You can't really compare what Greg Derr does to an Apex kit.

You have to ask yourself one thing, do you want to do it yourself or do you want someone with years of experience and hundreds of happy customers to do it?
 
Old Glory said:
I vote for the pros to do it.
Click to expand...

You know what? Me too, but in this case it wasn't necessary to get immediate, outstanding results. My M&P went from a sloppy, unbearable 10-pound trigger pull, with so much grit in the travel that you could feel and hear it - to a 5-pound trigger pull that is smooth as butter and a reset that I never even anticipated. It's absolutely superb. These are not Smith and Wesson parts repackaged - they were made by Apex to instantly improve the action of your gun and they work.

Still, I would love to have Greg Derr completely work over my carry gun and in fact, I hope one day he will. I never expected to like this M&P, but I really do. On the horizon, I see myself with a M&P9c or maybe even a M&P 357c. In my eyes, there would be nothing like having someone with as much skill as Greg go over my gun with a fine tooth comb and tune it to my specs. I seem to remember someone posting an M&Pc job that Greg did some time back and it was just breathtaking. Who would not want to have a gun like that? I know I do. I see customers regularly at the gun counter buying ammo for their M&P's and have handed to each of them a screen-shot of Greg's contact info. I hope one day I'm fortunate enough to use it myself - soon.

In this case however, I was able to attain superb results with Apex. Anyone out this way is welcome to come and shoot my M&P and see for yourself. This is a perfect kit for the DIY guys and will literally transform your M&P in ways that will surprise you...Drop me a PM.
 
I wonder if it might not be worth the extra cost of doing both, for what little extra improvements that might be gained in the M&P, but has anyone had, or considered getting the APEX parts installed and then tuned by a 'smith?
 
meth0d said:
I wonder if it might not be worth the extra cost of doing both, for what little extra improvements that might be gained in the M&P, but has anyone had, or considered getting the APEX parts installed and then tuned by a 'smith?
Click to expand...

I'm not a gunsmith and don't play one on TV, but I can't see how this would not be a win/win...
 
MassMark said:
I'm not a gunsmith and don't play one on TV, but I can't see how this would not be a win/win...
Click to expand...

Yea, I mean, it seems like it would be doubly better than just one of the two, but for an M&P? I'm not sure the cost is justifiable. Maybe for a competition gun if one is out shooting the gun's ability with just the APEX kit? IDK, just kind of thinking "out loud".
 
Greg Derr said:
I guess I should chime in here. What I do is not a black art. I refine all the fit and interrelationship of all the trigger parts in the M&P to the customers desire. 5# 4.5# 4# or 3# Same price $75. I also test fire each gun 20 rounds. Next I offer a 30 day window to have the trigger lightened at no cost. I prefer to have shooters comfortable with their guns and able to make shots as planned. The M&P is a great gun I have worked on hundreds of them. They are not and never will be high end glass break 1911 style triggers. It's just the way they are designed- Glock like, but not a Glock.
Drop in parts are fine, but think what you get. Repackaged Smith and Wesson parts, and no service. Some guys want to charge $50 to put in $10 worth of parts sold for $80. When things go wrong , ship the gun for $40.

I know Dave and Mike do great work and stand behind their work as I do. They also support the Mass. shooting sports like I do. We are there if you need us, when you need us. If you are a DIYS person that's great , we answer your questions too.

Sometimes you have to look at the whole package to see the value, not just the shiny chrome parts.

Shoot well, Greg
Click to expand...

Hi Folks,
My name is Dave Hearth, Hearthco Moonclips and SB Tool.

We fabricate the M&P sear for Apex. I can PROMISE you this is not a re-packaged Smith and Wesson part.

I took a proto part from Randy Lee of Apex and measured and digitized it to create the cad geometery and CNC programs.

It has been re-fined a few times to produce the part that is now available to you.

We have shipped to APEX somewhere north of 8000 sears most of which have been sold.

Apex kits for the M&P are some of the BEST values in gun parts going today. Spend 100 bucks and cut the trigger weight in half to a third and make it really smooth. And learn something bout your gun.

Apex works HARD to ensure customers are satisfied with their products and their customer service reputation is legendary

It is a great pleasure to work with the Apex staff. My M&P trigger is 3.5 smooth lbs with great reset. Parts and springs.

The Apex hard sear is available from Brownells, Mid-Way USA, Dillon, SSS, and of course Apex.

Be on the lookout for the Apex ram. Dave Hearth
 
Mass Mark I am glad it worked out for you. Anytime I try something like that I end up having the pros do it anyway to fix what I messed up. I learned I am better off paying just once. Santurri worked on my trigger and did a great job.

Stay thirsty my friend.
 
I'll say this. I have done a few M&P trigger jobs on my own guns. I purchased a used M&P 9mm from a member here that had a "trigger job" by one of the mentioned gunsmiths (NOT GREG DERR) . It also had what was supposed to be a S&W Performance Center sear in it from said gunsmith. The trigger sucked! I didn't have the heart to tell the seller because I bought the gun anyway. I stripped the gun when I got home and went right to work on fixing the trigger. The "Performance Center" sear was a regular factory sear that was badly modified and had to be thrown out. I installed one of the Apex sears that I keep on hand. I had to polish the striker block safety. The 'gunsmith' rounded it but didn't polish it which left the trigger gritty. The bottom line is that there are a few people out there raking in the $$$ for working on M&P's but they are not doing the work correctly. I have not seen the work of all the gunsmiths mentioned in this thread so I cannot say how there work is.

Let me say this regarding the Apex sear vs. Gunsmith sear. The Apex sear is heat treated hardened steel. It will last forever and not wear on the contact surfaces. Having a gunsmith cut a factory sear is not a great idea for a hard working pistol. The factory sear is MIM with surface hardening. When it is cut by a gunsmith it cuts through the hard layer leaving a soft contact surface. Sears cut a few years ago by gunsmiths are starting to crop up with worn contact points that will not release the striker.

I am currently working on an article on modifying an M&P for hard use. My advice, buy the Apex parts and have them installed by a professional.
 
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