scout scopes

[oneton]

or scopes mounted foreword of the receiver. what benefit is there to this set up. a sides from a leaver guns with an up words ejection or on a bolt gun that the scope can not be mounted over the bore. why would you want this.

the more eye relief you have the less FOV you have. and that only worsens with more magnification.

 

[Hanwei]

I've always kinda wondered this myself... looking forward to being edumacated.

 

[atmay]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scout_rifle

 

[Chris]

The forward mounted scope is usually fairly low power so that both eyes can be kept open and not cause any serious optical issues. The forward mount keeps the hardware away from the shooter for a better field of view and it is supposed to be faster to get get a sight picture.

Col. Cooper was a strong advocate of this style rifle as a "general purpose" tool. I recommend reading his "Art of the Rifle" for his insights.

You can also find more info on the Scout projects at Fr. Frog's page.

 

[seanc]

The forward mount allows you to keep both eyes open. I had a Styer scout in the past and it does work well. IMO better than the holosite/ dot type arrangement. If you close one eye and focus, you are still able to do pretty well with it like a standard scope. In my mind this is a great set up for quick accurate shots and specifically hunting moving game. But, I am not a hunter...

 

[Andy in NH]

Scout scopes allow you access to the action if you choose to load via stripper clip.

The sight picture can be faster to acquire than with iron sights or higher magnification, conventionally mounted scopes. However its not faster than a red dot sight (IME). (You need to balance this capability with your requirements; will you sacrifice a little speed for some magnification?)

A forward mounted scope allows you to easily carry the rifle at its balance point.

the more eye relief you have the less FOV you have.

Not true. If anything a scout scope allows you to observe more of the area around a target.

Remember, it a scout scope - built for general applications. It's not recommended for CQB / MOUT, nor should it be your first choice for long range shooting. But, if you are just "taking your rifle for a walk", a scout scope can fill many niches.

 

[M1911]

I've heard some folks say that the scout scope doesn't work well in low light situations, but I don't have any direct experience.

 

[seanc]

I've heard some folks say that the scout scope doesn't work well in low light situations, but I don't have any direct experience.

That seems like more of a glass quality/ reticle issue.
I had the Leupold 2.5x EER on my scope. It was a great piece, nice and bright and even at dusk it was clear. It had the thin center/ thick edge +, it was still nice and visible.

 

[Andy in NH]

...the scout scope doesn't work well in low light situations...

I've attended a class where we fired at steel from 100 yards, during dusk, every couple of minutes until the target was no longer visible. I used the Leupold Scout Scope. I stayed on the line just as long as the guys shooting through conventional, higher magnification scopes. Most of the students in the class were my age or older, so it may be more of an issue of night vision acuity. However, one person's experience isn't gospel.

Another claimed limitation of scout scopes is the threat of a low sun at your back washing out the sight picture. I have been unable to induce this situation in the field. I even started threads on ScoutRifle.org and 24hr Campfire to see if others could confirm / deny this occurrence. Nothing conclusive so far. Again, one person's experience isn't gospel.

One limitation of a scout scope happens when hunting during foul weather. The objective and ocular lenses are not in a location suitable for quick disengagement of flip up scope covers. When carrying a conventionally mounted scope at port arms, both thumbs are in excellent position to pop open the scope covers which up until that time have been protecting the lenses from rain / snow.

 

[M1911]

Thanks for the information.

 

[hminsky]

For the M1 Garand, and M1 carbine it's a very practical way to mount a scope, and it gives you a good view of the whole area, as opposed to just the tunnel vision of looking through the scope.

 

[bpm990d]

I have a Scout rifle and the biggest thing for me was ease of carrying and open access to the action without the scope in the way.

B

 

[oneton]

the added FOV comes from shooting two eye open. its something i do anyway. the FOV i was talking about when i said that was FOV though the scope. i under stand the need to keep the action open. like feeding a m1, with a conventional scope would be hard to do.
you are limited to a 2x scope any more would be all most useless. have you ever shot a pistil with a scope the, slightest cant makes the rectal black out.
from what ive read this was a concept from the 60s. there are more choices in optics now. i think the "scout scope" is a way of the past

 

[atmay]

from what ive read this was a concept from the 60s. there are more choices in optics now. i think the "scout scope" is a way of the past

if you don't like it, don't use it.

for other people, it works, and it's just another tool in the box. i dont think anyone here is claiming that "scout scope = uber alles!"

 

[RIFLEMAN1000]

I have a Marlin 336 in 35 rem set up as a scout . The main advantage is in heavy brush or for getting on target really quick when its called for. The scope is 1.5 to 4 power pistol scope and works really good.

 

[M1911]

from what ive read this was a concept from the 60s. there are more choices in optics now. i think the "scout scope" is a way of the past

If Jeff Cooper was still around, he'd take great exception to that assertion.

 

[Andy in NH]

you are limited to a 2x scope any more would be all most useless. have you ever shot a pistil with a scope the, slightest cant makes the rectal black out.

I think you meant "reticle."

A correct stock weld (and proper fitting stock) will prevent scope shadow.

from what ive read this was a concept from the 60s. there are more choices in optics now. i think the "scout scope" is a way of the past

The first Scout Rifle Conference was held in December, 1983.

The first edition of Jeff Cooper's Art of the Rifle (detailing in part the Scout Rifle concept) was released in 1997.

You shouldn't believe everything you read; get out and try it for yourself.

 

[oneton]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/scout_scopes.htm something i came across

 

[Andy in NH]

Scout Scopes, By Chuck Hawks:

I first tried a scope mounted forward of the receiver back in the middle 1960's, when the first IER (intermediate eye relief) Leupold M8 2x scope was introduced. That was long before the late Jeff Cooper coined the term "scout rifle" for such a rig, of course. I still use a pre-'64 Winchester Model 94 carbine with a forward mounted scope. (Another Leupold, but now a FX-II 2.5x28mm IER model.)

Clearly the scout scope is not, "a way of the past."

Chuck Hawks is a great writer; I enjoy reading many of his articles. However, several people in this thread have have stated what they like about the scout scope concept. What works (or doesn't) for Chuck might not be what works for you.

I've got three rifles set up with scout scopes, two with conventional scopes, and one more conventionally mounted rifle in the works. They all have their pros and cons; they all serve different purposes.

 

[oneton]

i understand the benefit from this set up on a lever gun or any other type were the conventional set up wont work. "I still use a pre-'64 Winchester Model 94 carbine with a forward mounted scope." chuck said. that is one of those cases. i said IMO the set up is out dated due to the choices in optics we have today. if you if works for you rock on. i was just looking for insight on why someone would use the "scout" set up over a conventional set up when it wasnt necessary

 

[bpm990d]

i was just looking for insight on why someone would use the "scout" set up over a conventional set up when it wasnt necessary

So they can load it with stripper clips and carry it around the center of balance without the scope being in the way.

B

 

[FhvnLT4A]

Derek, you might want to find out about spell check for some of our more astute literary molesters. )

 

[M1911]

i said IMO the set up is out dated due to the choices in optics we have today.

Out dated? Um, no. Something is out dated if something better comes along later. Traditionally mounted scopes were out before the scout rifle concept, so by very definition, it can't be out dated.

i was just looking for insight on why someone would use the "scout" set up over a conventional set up when it wasnt necessary

Because both have advantages and disadvantages.

The scout scope mounting allows you to load your rifle with stripper clips, so it is far faster to reload. It also offers a wide field of view. And it is very quick to bring the rifle up and get a snap shot.

On the downside, the scout scope generally doesn't work as well with high power magnifications.

 

[oneton]

Out dated? Um, no. Something is out dated if something better comes along later. Traditionally mounted scopes were out before the scout rifle concept, so by very definition, it can't be out dated.


Because both have advantages and disadvantages.

The scout scope mounting allows you to load your rifle with stripper clips, so it is far faster to reload. It also offers a wide field of view. And it is very quick to bring the rifle up and get a snap shot.

On the downside, the scout scope generally doesn't work as well with high power magnifications.

as i said earlier in the tread. I UNDERSTAND needing excess to the action to load va striper clips, and clearance on up-word ejecting lever guns.
i was looking for feed back about foreword mounted scopes on magazine fed or bolt rifles, where access to the action isnt needed.

i heard your statements of having a better FOV. the increased FOV is from being able to use your peripheral vision and having both eyes open. yet the sight picture through the scope will be reduced. with that said. this is just my opinion. quick shots, like woods hunting, shooting both eyes open with a low power wide angle conventional mounted scope will give you increased FOV through the scope and allow quick shots. with the versatility of a variable power scope.

for those of you who say that it is a good centre balance carry. moving the scopes center 6 or 8 inches foreword isnt going to make that big of a deal.

 

[bpm990d]

for those of you who say that it is a good centre balance carry. moving the scopes center 6 or 8 inches foreword isnt going to make that big of a deal.

It's about being able to wrap your hand around the action without the scope being in the way.

B

 

[M1911]

It sure sounds as though you've made up your mind about them, so this thread is just pointless.

 

[oneton]

its been said before. this is just my opinion. you are entitled you yours. i was asking for opinions on it because i could have over looked something, and i might have tried tried it out. from this i haven't seen anything that would make me want to try it. so ill keep doing what im doing and you can do the same. i wasnt trying to change your ways. thanks for all replies.