namedpipes
NES Member
Sounded pretty unequivocal to me!
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Somehow, I don't think HC will think that applies to either police or repo men, though I saw no exemption for them.
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Screwed?
- Thread starter CRSIII
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Sounded pretty unequivocal to me!
Somehow, I don't think HC will think that applies to either police or repo men, though I saw no exemption for them.
Bill Nance
Banned
I don't know what the MGLs say WRT repossessions, but in the two state's where I've repo'd cars, a car in a driveway is fair game unless it's behind a fence or other such enclosure, barrier etc. It's even legal if the car is in a garage with the door open, though we always forbade the practice because it has the potential for fireworks. Instead we blocked off the driveway with a tow truck and called the cops, who sometimes would come out, and sometimes not, depending on the jurisdiction.
Again, the car you're driving, if it has a lien on it, IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY. It's the property of the lienholder. If you don't like that, then don't take out a loan for a car.
As for the knuckleheads who think just ANY car gets repo'd you don't know WTF you are talking about. Repo agents get paid for the cars retrieved by them for the lienholder. If you get the wrong car you're looking at getting your license revoked, maybe sued, and CERTAINLY not paid. It's also likely to be the last repo order you get from the client, and that can cost you your business. Losing Toyota Motor Credit or GMAC as a client will not only get the repo guy fired instantly, but can make a repo company go out of business.
That's one Hell of an incentive not to get the wrong car. We certainly never got one.
Bottom line, NO ONE gets their car repo'd and doesn't know it's coming. The lender has been trying to make a deal for weeks, often months, the repo company itself has probably tried to make an arrangement with you.
And yes Derek, the repo guy generally has a copy of the note and the repo order with him in case the cops get called. It's not ID, but who cares. Obviously a thief isn't going to have a copy of the note from the lender.
Repo agents should be able to be armed. And if someone takes a shot you should be able to return fire.
I'm really amazed that on a mostly libertarian board people are actually questioning the rights of the LAWFUL OWNER of property to take possession of it when the note is defaulted on. If you pay your f***ing bill you won't have an issue. Dont' like it? pay cash for your next car.
We repo cars at 2am so the deadbeats don't hide them and because aside from the anecdotal stuff on here, it actually reduces incidents. The last thing on earth a repo agent wants is a face-to-face with the debtor. They are ugly, they escalate very quickly and are potentially very dangerous for the guy trying to do his job.
Again, the car you're driving, if it has a lien on it, IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY. It's the property of the lienholder. If you don't like that, then don't take out a loan for a car.
As for the knuckleheads who think just ANY car gets repo'd you don't know WTF you are talking about. Repo agents get paid for the cars retrieved by them for the lienholder. If you get the wrong car you're looking at getting your license revoked, maybe sued, and CERTAINLY not paid. It's also likely to be the last repo order you get from the client, and that can cost you your business. Losing Toyota Motor Credit or GMAC as a client will not only get the repo guy fired instantly, but can make a repo company go out of business.
That's one Hell of an incentive not to get the wrong car. We certainly never got one.
Bottom line, NO ONE gets their car repo'd and doesn't know it's coming. The lender has been trying to make a deal for weeks, often months, the repo company itself has probably tried to make an arrangement with you.
And yes Derek, the repo guy generally has a copy of the note and the repo order with him in case the cops get called. It's not ID, but who cares. Obviously a thief isn't going to have a copy of the note from the lender.
Repo agents should be able to be armed. And if someone takes a shot you should be able to return fire.
I'm really amazed that on a mostly libertarian board people are actually questioning the rights of the LAWFUL OWNER of property to take possession of it when the note is defaulted on. If you pay your f***ing bill you won't have an issue. Dont' like it? pay cash for your next car.
We repo cars at 2am so the deadbeats don't hide them and because aside from the anecdotal stuff on here, it actually reduces incidents. The last thing on earth a repo agent wants is a face-to-face with the debtor. They are ugly, they escalate very quickly and are potentially very dangerous for the guy trying to do his job.
My wife caught someone attempting to repo my truck. They actually wanted the truck next door, which is very similar.
I don't think anyone takes issue with a car getting repossessed. I think they take issue with someone hooking up to your car in the middle of the night and then seeming amazed when they get a gun in their face. Knowing it is going to be taken is far different than missing a few payments then waking up to someone hooking onto your vehicle. If you don't know it's a repo, then you don't know it isn't being stolen.
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To quote George Gershwin in his famous song: "It ain't necessarily so." PM coming...
Mark056
namedpipes
NES Member
My comments pertained to trespassing, not to repo'ing.
Does the repo have the right to come on your property to take back the vehicle? Probably, within limits.
Does the homeowner have the right to order the repo man / cop / vacuum cleaner salesman / neighborhood kid to leave the property NOW?
What if the homeowner (the person with the right to order you away) is not the car owner?
Where does that the repo process? I don't know, but the legal right to take something back doesn't necessarily give you the right to access it. OTOH, that person preventing the repo is just delaying the inevitable and perhaps making it worse in the long run.
Sue HC anyway.
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Under MGLs we have NO RIGHT to resist theft of property with force of any kind. This ain't Texas (where citizens of Texas DO have that right)!
We barely have the right to defend ourselves against severe bodily injury or death . . . remember you have an "affirmative DEFENSE" ONLY . . . that means that you get accused of a crime and the great Commiewealth is gracious enough to ALLOW you to raise a legal defense in your own behalf.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
It matters not what each of us THINKS the law should allow . . . MGLs do NOT allow us to take such actions.
NOTE: Apparently few if any noted that when you sign a promissory note for a car/house/TV/etc. YOU ARE giving advance approval for the provider of those funds to come onto your property at any time to reclaim them for non-payment/breach of contract!!
We barely have the right to defend ourselves against severe bodily injury or death . . . remember you have an "affirmative DEFENSE" ONLY . . . that means that you get accused of a crime and the great Commiewealth is gracious enough to ALLOW you to raise a legal defense in your own behalf.
It matters not what each of us THINKS the law should allow . . . MGLs do NOT allow us to take such actions.
NOTE: Apparently few if any noted that when you sign a promissory note for a car/house/TV/etc. YOU ARE giving advance approval for the provider of those funds to come onto your property at any time to reclaim them for non-payment/breach of contract!!
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Bill Nance
Banned
If you've missed "a few" payments you're getting calls galore. Like every single day. Usually the repo order goes out at 90 days or so, sometimes quicker depending on the history. If the debtor has consistently been behind the collector has to make a judgment call: "Will we get our money back?"
If I've been fighting with you for months to get you to pay and you always seem to be late a month or more, I'm eventually going to give the repo order the next time you get more than 30 days behind. It's just a matter of cutting losses.
If the guy in question had just pulled a gun on someone stealing his car I'd be sympathetic. But cases of "wrong car," "I was making my payments on time," etc. are so vanishingly rare it's hardly worth talking about.
You're talking about conflicting rights of property here. One is the right to be free of trespass, the other is the right to recover your own property under circumstances the debtor has already agreed to.
As for the attempted repo on your truck, did the guy have it hooked up or was he just snooping? There are these things called VIN numbers and license plate numbers we tend to check before we hook up a vehicle.
It's possible, but then it's equally possible for a lawfully armed citizen to go postal at a school. The right of property is right up there with the right of self defense.
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repossesion
I have no fight with the repo.BUT it has happened that thieves,do use trucks to steal vehicles.and it happens all the time down here.especially 4 wheelers tracters ect.some times refrig,and freezers.and even some wooden playground equipment and that one took a BIG rig to get.
I have no fight with the repo.BUT it has happened that thieves,do use trucks to steal vehicles.and it happens all the time down here.especially 4 wheelers tracters ect.some times refrig,and freezers.and even some wooden playground equipment and that one took a BIG rig to get.
I didn't read the other 14 pages of this thread, but thought it would be relevant to mention that my cousin, who owns a junkyard, had his flatbed tow truck AND his wrecker stolen on the same night. Both vehicles were used to steal 5 high end luxury cars if I remember correctly.
So yes, it's not unreasonable to believe someone with a tow truck really could be stealing your car. It's far too easy to forge paperwork and other necessary materials to "repossess" a car. I wouldn't let anyone touch my car with a tow truck unless the police were standing there or it was broken down and I gave them permission to do so.
So yes, it's not unreasonable to believe someone with a tow truck really could be stealing your car. It's far too easy to forge paperwork and other necessary materials to "repossess" a car. I wouldn't let anyone touch my car with a tow truck unless the police were standing there or it was broken down and I gave them permission to do so.
Bill Nance
Banned
Ok, let me give you a for-real instance from Mass, and recently.
Our street is easily accessible form major highways and is also somewhat isolated and quiet. As a result its a place where a lot of drug transactions occur.
Yesterday I called the cops (again) over what was certainly a drug transaction. 2 cars pull up together, one guy gets out of his car and into the passenger side of the other and emerges 30 seconds later putting something into his pocket (Money I'd bet).
It happened so fast I wasn't able to do anything but take down license plates. If there'd been more time I would have gone out and confronted them. I'd be armed, but I wouldn't be pointing a gun in anyone's face. It would be concealed. I'd be demanding to know wtf they were doing. I'd also have my cell-phone on me and be on with 911.
That's a lawful, reasonable and sensible way to go about something like that. Going out there and pointing a gun in soemone's face is not legal, it's not reasonable and it's begging for tragedy. For all I know it's possible (if unlikely) that the two guys were exchanging directions and cell-phone numbers.
Any time I introduce a drawn weapon I'm escalating the ever-living shit out of the situation. I have precious little sympathy for the guy in this case.
I think he knew damn well he was being repo'd and was, as many debtors I've dealt with in the past, trying to intimidate the agent from retrieving the property of the principal.
If you look at the article it says the dispatcher overheard him telling the guy to unhook his vehicle, not freeze and wait for the cops. That speaks to me of deadbeat, not someone defending his property.
Our street is easily accessible form major highways and is also somewhat isolated and quiet. As a result its a place where a lot of drug transactions occur.
Yesterday I called the cops (again) over what was certainly a drug transaction. 2 cars pull up together, one guy gets out of his car and into the passenger side of the other and emerges 30 seconds later putting something into his pocket (Money I'd bet).
It happened so fast I wasn't able to do anything but take down license plates. If there'd been more time I would have gone out and confronted them. I'd be armed, but I wouldn't be pointing a gun in anyone's face. It would be concealed. I'd be demanding to know wtf they were doing. I'd also have my cell-phone on me and be on with 911.
That's a lawful, reasonable and sensible way to go about something like that. Going out there and pointing a gun in soemone's face is not legal, it's not reasonable and it's begging for tragedy. For all I know it's possible (if unlikely) that the two guys were exchanging directions and cell-phone numbers.
Any time I introduce a drawn weapon I'm escalating the ever-living shit out of the situation. I have precious little sympathy for the guy in this case.
I think he knew damn well he was being repo'd and was, as many debtors I've dealt with in the past, trying to intimidate the agent from retrieving the property of the principal.
If you look at the article it says the dispatcher overheard him telling the guy to unhook his vehicle, not freeze and wait for the cops. That speaks to me of deadbeat, not someone defending his property.
Or a FTF gun sale
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
To my recollection:
He had the truck backed up to my truck, in my driveway. My wife saw it through the window and walked to my wrap-around porch to ask what they were doing. They said "we're taking your truck". At that point, I went outside and ordered them off my property. They said they're taking my truck. I said, you're fixing to get your ass kicked and jumped the railing. By this time, he was way inside my driveway, between two vehicles, so I couldn't see him. By the time I rounded the second vehicle, he was almost back to his truck, yelling "sorry, wrong vehicle" over his shoulder.
I stopped and let him leave. He was a douche bag with a douche bag attitude. Things could have gone much differently. I very much wanted to beat his ass for ignoring my order to leave my driveway.
jcetto0351
NES Member
He has the complete right to go out to his property which is being taken and say lemme see some paperwork! its 3AM so if it isnt a repo then you will definately need the gun but AT THE SAME TIME his girlfriend was calling the police!
I'm sure it pissed off the repoman to be scared for a second but I just don't see the big deal!
Point taken... but technically, unless he has the title, it is not his property which is being taken.
Point taken... but technically, unless he has the title, it is not his property which is being taken.
So? If someone barges into my house I'm supposed to hand over the keys because it belongs to the bank?
Uh....those two things are just a little bit different.
They are EXACTLY the same. You stated the property wasn't his. A house with a lien is exactly the same situation. It isn't his.
While both may be owned by someone other than the BORROWER, I'm sure you realize that someone taking a car that doesn't belong to you and someone entering the place where you reside are not EXACTLY the same thing. One requires a 911 call and the other requires you to possibly draw a weapon, among many other differences.
namedpipes
NES Member
It seems to me that not allowing the repo man to actually repossess a vehicle is no different from stealing from the lending institution.
OTOH, there is a lawful and reasonable process to follow in doing a repo and snagging it at 3am is NOT reasonable. They do it because it is "easier".
If a defaulted person is not allowing the repo to happen during business hours and without a fight, then is the time to involve police, courts, etc.
Why business hours? Wasn't the orignial note signed during business hours and probably at the bank?
3am visits to "steal" the car back are unreasonable and the repo should not be too surprised if the car owner thinks it is being stolen and reacts to that.
All that said, holding a gun to the repo man's head to force him to drop the car goes way beyond reasonable actions even against a real car thief, unless of course you or someone else is still in the car, which wasn't the case.
OTOH, there is a lawful and reasonable process to follow in doing a repo and snagging it at 3am is NOT reasonable. They do it because it is "easier".
If a defaulted person is not allowing the repo to happen during business hours and without a fight, then is the time to involve police, courts, etc.
Why business hours? Wasn't the orignial note signed during business hours and probably at the bank?
3am visits to "steal" the car back are unreasonable and the repo should not be too surprised if the car owner thinks it is being stolen and reacts to that.
All that said, holding a gun to the repo man's head to force him to drop the car goes way beyond reasonable actions even against a real car thief, unless of course you or someone else is still in the car, which wasn't the case.
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Well, yeah. If the sheriff/constable/whatever comes to foreclose, yeah. The key being one needs to prove who they are and what authority they have. If they don't then you have a legitimate beef. There was a post earlier where the guy said, sure I'd go out there armed but concealed and investigate. That was the reasonable approach here.
Then make an argument based on that, not on ownership. If you put ownership as the basis of your argument, that's what I'm going to respond to.
I absolutely agree. If it's a theft, though, responding passively could cost you your life.
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Martlet, it does NOT work this way wrt to houses. The debtor gets multiple opportunities to show up in court and work something out. The process in MA takes 6-12 months typically, so it's no surprise. Also I'm required to post a "48-hour Notice" (or hand it to the "homeowner" . . . this is the last step before the actual eviction) that says on such a date at such a time I'll be back with a mover to remove all goods if the person doesn't vacate in advance. [Although the law specifies a "48-hour notice" I usually deliver it on a Monday and specify that I will be back to do the eviction on a Friday, giving them the week to move out on their own. I'd rather that they move than my having to move them out.]
I bring a mover and a locksmith with me. They drill the lock if necessary and change the locks. You can keep your keys but you must leave immediately or you get arrested for "criminal trespass" and get to discuss that with a judge.
I have court orders of eviction with me that COMMANDS me to do what I'm doing. The last person who refused to leave the house got to wear silver bracelets, spend the day in court and then walk a few miles (in a housecoat and slippers . . . she refused to get dressed) from the police station to get her car back from the police impound yard.
It pretty much is the same. Again, no surprises in any case as bank/loan company had been trying to reach out for months to resolve the debt.
Since I refuse to do repos, I have no idea if they go with court papers or just docs from the loan company.
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I am glad to see we have 48 hr notices here. I just hope you always deliver and post them to the property in question. In many states douchebag landlords are screwing their tenants and the only ones who suffer are the innocent tenants who are up to date on the rent.
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That's the law in MA and if a Constable/Deputy Sheriff is found to violate it, there are severe penalties including jail time. Can't speak for everyone, but I toe the line on the law. If I'm asked to do something that smells fishy, I simply refuse.
BTW, there is NO legal requirement for advance notice on a commercial eviction. We can legally get the paper and go directly to the commercial establishment, order them to leave, change the locks and move their stuff out to storage. I was recently asked to do one of these, and not being familiar with the difference (no advance notice required), I walked away from it.
