Securing firearms to protect their value before seizer

Reptile

Reptile

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I thought a hypothetical question...

If somebody was about to lose their LTC in Mass because of some sort of law infraction, couldn't they take all their guns to VT or NH? They can give them to friends to hold or put them in storage.

I think they would be able to move everything and store them in VT or NH.

Could they just get up and move to another state in the middle of the night?


Edit:
I am NOT in trouble. Nor is anybody I know.
 
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Yes, you could move your guns to a more friendly state, even if you didn't live there. Having your non-resident friend store them for you is iffy, however, as loans between residents of different states are only allowed for temporary lawful sporting purposes, and storage is not a sporting purpose. However, renting space in your friend's gun safe is perfectly fine... [wink]
 
wish i could anwser your hypothetical question but if you need a storage place up in N.H. just let me know..[smile]
living on a old dairy farm,there must be alot of places to "place" stuff..
 
Depends on the situation

If you are a a prohibited person under federal law, you need to transfer them to get them out of state legally, since you can no longer own them, you can't legally lend them

If you were in a situation where you are no longer allowed under MGL to have a LTC/FID but were OK in NH, the situation gets sticky and I won't comment on it.

If you were not a prohibited person, but about to loose your rights in MA for a legal infraction, say for the sake of conversation a conviction on a DWI charge, you could pull up stakes and move to NH where you'd be OK IMHO, you just could never go into MA with them, or get caught with ammo in your car in a MA traffic stop.
 
I wonder how fast a person could become a resident? Seems to me like that could be established as soon as the rent is paid.

In the mean time they could load up their trunk and take their stuff to a friends house until they get a new address.

I would never advocate such a plan for a person unless I knew it was legal.
 
There is always the boating accident, or the aliens, or the terrible fire, or any of the other tragedies members on this forum have suffered over the last year.
 
Reptile said:
I wonder how fast a person could become a resident? Seems to me like that could be established as soon as the rent is paid.

In the mean time they could load up their trunk and take their stuff to a friends house until they get a new address.

I would never advocate such a plan for a person unless I knew it was legal.
Click to expand...

Sent from Reptile's Blackberry on the NH state line (with the back end of the car dragging along 93 North)...[rofl]
 
Reptile said:
I wonder how fast a person could become a resident? Seems to me like that could be established as soon as the rent is paid.

In the mean time they could load up their trunk and take their stuff to a friends house until they get a new address.

I would never advocate such a plan for a person unless I knew it was legal.
Click to expand...

[laugh2]Sent from Reptile's Blackberry on the NH state line (with the back end of the car dragging along 93 North)...[rofl]
 
Glockaholic said:
If you were not a prohibited person, but about to loose your rights in MA for a legal infraction, say for the sake of conversation a conviction on a DWI charge, you could pull up stakes and move to NH where you'd be OK IMHO, you just could never go into MA with them, or get caught with ammo in your car in a MA traffic stop.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that a Mass. OUI is a felony, so even moving to NH wouldn't protect your gun rights if you were convicted.
 
I am not a lawyer, but IIRC it takes a third DWI to get a sentence OVER 2.5 years, and that is when it becomes a felony.

I also think, and once again IANAL, that the 2.5 year max. served in a house of correction is considered a misdemeanor

I'll wait for someone who is smarter than I to answer the DWI question

First Offense

* Fine: $500 to $5,000

* Jail: No minimum to 2.5 years

* Driver's license suspension: one year

Drivers arrested for a first OUI offense can get their sentences reduced by agreeing to complete a state-approved alcohol education program. This is not an option after the first offense.
Second Offense

* Fine: $600 to $10,000

* Jail: 30 days to 2.5 years

* Driver's license suspension: two years

Third Offense (felony)

* Fine: $1,000 to $15,000

* Jail: 150 days to five years

* Suspension: eight years

Fourth Offense (felony)

* Fine: $1,500 to $25,000

* Jail: one to five years

* Suspension: 10 years

Fifth Offense (felony)

* Fine: $20,000 to $50,000

* Jail: two to five years

* Suspension: lifetime
 
I will add that Scriv's once said that if you are facing a divorce or some other event where you could reasonably expect a 209A coming down on you (and he did imply that 209As are thrown around in places like MA during divorces like slurs), to get them out of the state and not just out of your possession. I suspect that would apply to other scenarios too like DWI, etc.
 
terraformer said:
I will add that Scriv's once said that if you are facing a divorce or some other event where you could reasonably expect a 209A coming down on you (and he did imply that 209As are thrown around in places like MA during divorces like slurs), to get them out of the state and not just out of your possession. I suspect that would apply to other scenarios too like DWI, etc.
Click to expand...


Get them out of state:

Ok, what are those options...

Self storage place?
Friends house?
Must you intend to move if you have a friend hold them?
 
terraformer said:
I will add that Scriv's once said that if you are facing a divorce or some other event where you could reasonably expect a 209A coming down on you (and he did imply that 209As are thrown around in places like MA during divorces like slurs), to get them out of the state and not just out of your possession. I suspect that would apply to other scenarios too like DWI, etc.
Click to expand...

Strictly from a legal point of view DWI only comes into play if it is 3rd offense, and if you have 3 DWI's you are not really someone I want with a gun.. From the point of suitability, the C.O.P. can pull or deny your LTC/FID without a felony conviction, but on the basis you were arrested

Once a 209 is issued you have to turn in your guns, most of the time the cops are going to come looking for them if they know you have a FID/LTC. If your guns are out on loan you are going to have to disclose where they are if I had to take a guess and they will be picked up. I know in NH you have a year to transfer them to a non prohibited person. In MA since you no longer have a LTC/FID you can't sell them on a FA-10 to anyone assuming the cops will even let you transfer them without a court order. My best advice for anyone who thinks they are in a position to be served a 209 order in MA is to make sure the guns are gone to a trusted friend, and have FA-10's filled out ahead of time to be mailed the second the cops show up. It is a fine legal line as to the legality of this tactic, and since I am not a lawyer I can't comment on if it is legal or illegal to do it, but I have seen it done.

You can't transfer a gun to a friend out of state without a FFL involved, so the best you can do is to run to a NH friend who will rent you a room, go to town hall, register to vote, go get a drivers license, register and insure your car, change everything that would make you a MA resident to a NH base, then you can legally take the guns you lent your NH friend back as a newly minted NH resident. This is assuming there is not a 209 involved because if that is the case you can't get them back ever from anyone until the order is vacated, but at the second before the order is served you can FTF transfer them to a person known to you in a FTF transaction in NH

remember the second you declare NH residency your ma LTC is void, so make sure the guns are over the border in the hands of a trusted friend before you "move"
 
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Reptile said:
I wonder how fast a person could become a resident? Seems to me like that could be established as soon as the rent is paid.

In the mean time they could load up their trunk and take their stuff to a friends house until they get a new address.

I would never advocate such a plan for a person unless I knew it was legal.
Click to expand...

If you have an RV, I'll give you a lease the same day you park it on my driveway. Bring it and your passport to the DMV in Concord, you should have your temp license in a few hours.
 
Reptile said:
Get them out of state:

Ok, what are those options...

Self storage place?
Friends house?
Must you intend to move if you have a friend hold them?
Click to expand...

He didn't specify and neither I nor anyone else involved in that thread asked. I suspect Jeremy's take on it is probably close. Don't just hand them over, but go through an FFL. I have to imagine that any FFL would cut you a deal if you were transferring a dozen firearms to the same guy. At the very least, once over the border it seems as if the law is reasonable enough that you would have time to find an FFL willing to do a reasonable price on the transfer.

I think the bigger problem would be that the transfer back for MA residents would be next to impossible on non-compliant guns. Also, once you transfer them, the recipient is under no legal obligation to give them back. You need to transfer these to someone whom you trust. And even then, I would get a lawyer to figure out a way to try and protect the rights to the ownership.
Maybe this would be a good topic of conversation to figure out how best to park firearms temporarily in situations such as these.

I was loitering in collectors one day (waiting for Fred actually) and a guy (security guard) came in needing to store his pistols. He used one of them for work. He claimed, and I have no reason to doubt the story other than the guy seemed like a dim bulb, that he got his LTC pulled because when asked by a cop (pulled over for a taillight problem I think, or speeding can't remember any longer) did he have any guns on him, he said no. He didn't, they were in the trunk locked up the way they should be. He was asked by a second cop who showed up if he had any guns in the vehicle. He said yes, in the trunk. Well cop 1 took offense apparently that he answered the question posed and not some other question he meant to ask. One CLEO to another, boom LTC gone and he was facing $1 per day, per firearm (4 of them apparently). Not only that, he was afraid he would be fired. Gotta love this cesspool.
 
What about a second home in another state?

I'll bet the wheels start to turn PDQ when they open your wallet and see 3 states (in my case) worth of permits.

Any OUI I thought was a felony boys.
 
Asaltweapon said:
What about a second home in another state?

I'll bet the wheels start to turn PDQ when they open your wallet and see 3 states (in my case) worth of permits.

Any OUI I thought was a felony boys.
Click to expand...
Guess what?? google "Falcone" busted with 340lbs of weed in quincy mass drug bust"",, hes in the mix of the 340lbs bust but is only ""charged with 20lbs" IN MA--> A MISDERMEANOR-----YES,, Mistdermeanor, spell it anyway you want! FWIW~~~~~~~ just keeping up with the "times".
 
I'm not going to pretend to actually know the law in the case of moving them off to another state.

HOWEVER, I recall reading one story (might be here on NES, might have been elsewhere) where someone's permit was yanked (don't recall if it was a 209A or just a "suitability" revocation). The PD shows up to confiscate everything and no guns! He tells them that he moved them to a NH location and the MA local PD contacts the NH local PD (seem to think it was Manchester, but not certain) and the NH PD confiscates the guns for the MA PD!

This might be where having a good lawyer can be helpful. I know more than a few people with homes in VT, NH, ME as well as MA. If the PD knows this info they will try their best to confiscate your stuff and sister PDs in other states may well be sent to do their bidding.

So best advice is consult with a lawyer long before you have a "need" and then have a "plan" to secure your goods in a legal manner in another state to protect your assets. Of course this all assumes that the issue does NOT involve someone who has become a "federally prohibited" person . . . that any issues are "local" (MA) in nature.
 
Cross-X said:
Are you sure about that?

Better check again.
Click to expand...

I searched, and I was wrong.

My mistake, and my apologies for not doing my homework. I got tangled up in the whole OUI, prohibited person, can't get an LTC but can get an FID, federally prohibited, full firearms rights, etc. etc.

Sorry. [grin]

***ETA***

Turns out I was right. The Feds consider it a felony even if Mass. doesn't, which would make you prohibited for life.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...D-waiting-period-and-criminal-record-question
 
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