Well, there's lots of Appleseed friendly posts here so I've brought my question here. I've been wrestling over what to get for my "arsenal". Lately I've finally gotten off the couch and have begun to arm myself and to get trained. I bought an M1A, 1,000 rounds of ammo, a 10/22 which I'm setting up to practice with, and Saiga 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun. The M1A is to protect our liberty should our or another govt. decide to throw it's weight around. I believe in becoming a marksman to work longer distances. I live in the suburbs however and am concerned to arm myself for closer engagements should their be civil unrest ala LA Riots or such. So, I've had my eye on a new mini 14. I've put it on layaway and have paid off half. The advantages of that is it's got the similar action and safety to the M1A and looks frickin gorgeous. All three of my rifles will look the same, black synthtic stocks and blued steel. The only thing I worry about with the mini is the .223 cartridge. On thugs without body armor I'm sure it would be destructive. How's it work on Jack Booted Thugs with armor? How does the 7.62x39 round work in that area? I really like the menacing looks of the AK and the bigger bullet but understand that high velocity of the .223 is a good thing too. This is to be my go to gun in civil unrest in the neighborhood. Opinions? Should I save the money and just buy more ammo?
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- Thread starter Buddo
- Start date
You say you have a M1A, are you speaking of a Springfield M1A in .308? If so, I believe you can purchase tungsten or steel core penetrator ammo that will surely have a great effect on anybody wearing body-armor. I believe more so than a 7.62x39. I don't know where you live, and as I live in NH, I am unaware of the legality of these in other states. I bought some military surplus penetrator rounds for my 30-06, ballistics similar to .308 nato, and was amazed at how thick of steel plate it would penetrate. As far as .223 goes, I don't know for sure. I have a friend in the marines and he says his flak jacket will stop an AK round, but not a .308 steel core. I hope this is of some help, and don't take what I say as 100% fact, as it is only my opinion and don't want to see it not work in a SHTF situation.
Kenny
Kenny
FalArAk
NES Member
I enjoyed your post right up to the part about you putting money down on a mini 14.
Your post picked up again right after the mini 14 comments.
Get an AK variant in 5.45 or 7.62.
Your post picked up again right after the mini 14 comments.
Get an AK variant in 5.45 or 7.62.
Courtesy of the Box O' Truth;
7.62 X 39 vs Level III armor![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
As they say... "Rifles is rifles and pistols is pistols".
7.62 X 39 vs Level III armor
As they say... "Rifles is rifles and pistols is pistols".
Well, those those little 7.62x39 rounds are quite rugged according to box o' truth. I will remember not to get shot by one wearing body armor! I will agree with Greg, maybe an AK is better than a Mini 14 on body armor! I like the mini14 more, but those are results you can't deny! Your M1A will definitely put a hurt on somebody, no penetrator ammo needed! Stuff still works great though.
gerrycaruso
NES Member
There are many levels of body armor. Some is designed specificly to stop rounds in the .308 class. If you're talking about soft body armor worn under a uniform, the .223 with ball ammo goes through effortlessly. I sure hope you never have to find out for your self.
No,no,no please don't misunderstand me. My only concern is in a police state where resistance may be necessary or military coup or invasion or somthing to that effect where our form of government is being overthrown.
I am no fool or criminal. I love and support my country and am a law abiding citizen.
I am no fool or criminal. I love and support my country and am a law abiding citizen.
Get an AK in 7.62x39. Massive punch if need be and in case of riots it will dispell crowds without a single shot ever being fired. Once they see it they will run.
Stop explaining yourself. It's not only rational, it's sensible to consider whether or not you could stand up to every threat on the horizon. Not considering the potential for an adversarial relationship with the powers that be is as stupid as saying, "I have nothing to worry about, I am not a criminal." Buy a powerful rifle so that you can put big holes in the enemy. Don't worry who the enemy is right now, it will become obvious in time. A .308 will do just that. Theoretically there is body armor that will reliably stop a milspec .308 round, but most people aren't "running around" in it. Except, that is, for this one security guard in ME who's threatened to weld two plates together....but I digress.
If you have a M1A your rifle needs are taken care of. Now buy a battle carbine. An AK, or an AR, both will do what you want them to do.
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A few tips for you.
Believe it or not, .308 is also a pistol round, as is 7.62x39.
If you want to be able to have AP ammo, the best way to go is an M1 Garand, in .30-06.
.30-06 M2 AP and 5.56 M855 Ball (green tip) are specifically exempt, per the BATFE.
Get it (the M1 rifle) from CMP.
Body armor varies, depending on what kind it is.
Interceptor Body Armour is much tougher than what LEO's use, and, I couldn't tell you what the rating would be, if it's even rated, or there's a rating for it.
An IBA with SAPI plates does stop up to .30-06 class projectiles.
Now, all of this is fine for conversation, but, truth be known, AP ammo will be an investment for little to no return. Unless you're shooting at cars for fun, that is. Or breaking cement blocks. But, for a SHTF situation? No, not worth the trouble, IMNSHO.
Now, that M1A will work just fine for urban use, though a little "bulky", so spend your money elsewhere, like for arming "the better half".
Believe it or not, .308 is also a pistol round, as is 7.62x39.
If you want to be able to have AP ammo, the best way to go is an M1 Garand, in .30-06.
.30-06 M2 AP and 5.56 M855 Ball (green tip) are specifically exempt, per the BATFE.
Get it (the M1 rifle) from CMP.
Body armor varies, depending on what kind it is.
Interceptor Body Armour is much tougher than what LEO's use, and, I couldn't tell you what the rating would be, if it's even rated, or there's a rating for it.
An IBA with SAPI plates does stop up to .30-06 class projectiles.
Now, all of this is fine for conversation, but, truth be known, AP ammo will be an investment for little to no return. Unless you're shooting at cars for fun, that is. Or breaking cement blocks. But, for a SHTF situation? No, not worth the trouble, IMNSHO.
Now, that M1A will work just fine for urban use, though a little "bulky", so spend your money elsewhere, like for arming "the better half".
The worst part about the Mini-14 is the frigging magazines it uses.
Getting mags that work properly is a pain in the ass. If I get an AR or an AK I can just "go buy some" and they will work as long as they don't have rocks in them. This isn't the case with the mini, where 85% of the mini-14 mags you see floating around are pure trash.
-Mike
KMM696
NES Member
House clearing aside, what are you gaining by not using the M1A at suburban distances?
Buy more ammo, mags and optics for the M1A, and hit the range with it. If you need to clear your house, use the Saiga.
Buy more ammo, mags and optics for the M1A, and hit the range with it. If you need to clear your house, use the Saiga.
This is exactly what I was going to ask next. Do I really need a battle carbine for social situations? Can I use the M1A for that role?
Optics. Acog? Man that thing is sweet. I welcome optic suggestions as I don't really know much about it.
Optics. Acog? Man that thing is sweet. I welcome optic suggestions as I don't really know much about it.
I have had a mimi-14 for 20 years, its a good rifle but recent developments have caused me to buy a DPMS LR-308 for exactly the reasons you stated.
Which you'll be bringing to the next shoot, right?
seanc
NES Member
Got to disagree here... The worst part is that no matter how much time and effort you put into it, you'll still be left with a mini-14..
There are plenty of options out there for .223s.. AR, AKs, etc.. Do yourself a favor and take a good look into the options before taking home that mini..
The magazines are a cart/horse problem, though. Every person I know who has owned one of those guns has bitched about the lack of readily
available magazines that aren't garbage. Even good M1A mags are easier to come by than usable ruger mini-14 mags. For a semiautomatic
rifle, "magazines that work" is a must have. The Mini-14 gets an F- in this regard. The platform has other issues, but those don't hold a candle to the mag problem.
-Mike
I'm not sure the negatives that have held for older mini's apply anymore. They are making 20 and 30 round factory mags. Two 20 rounders come with the rifle. They have retooled the plant and the rifle to make it more accurate, and apparantly it is from reviews I've read, 2 MOA.
Tell me again how I can use my M1A in urban social situations. AK fever is passing. I may take the money down on the Mini and put it towards a G19 instead. And a wheel gun for the pocket.
Tell me again how I can use my M1A in urban social situations. AK fever is passing. I may take the money down on the Mini and put it towards a G19 instead. And a wheel gun for the pocket.
I'm of the school of thought of 'anything worth shooting once is worth shooting again'. Someone wearing Level IIIB or IV armor is still going to be hurting after being hit with a decent rifle caliber like your .308 or 7.62. After that, it's up to you to finish the job and ensure the target is done for with a followup (time allowing)
