Since this is forum for dealer review .... who's the worst?

jdkelly, one thing I learned in a number of jobs was that when dealing with customers/public, no matter who is right or not, you can't afford to be nasty and arrogant to the customer.

I only asked him about a case-lot discount because a Wal-Mart employee in Hudson NH OFFERED that possibility (asked me to call their SG Mgr . . . his suggestion, I didn't ask about any discounts) when I mentioned that we'd be shooting a course near there (Tyngsboro) and might just need a case or more of ammo. Craig's response (and I told him what I had been told in Hudson) was outright arrogant. His haughty "we have the cheapest prices anywhere, so we don't need to give discounts" and "nobody will ship to MA" were both "over the top"! All he had to do was say "no, we don't do that" and it would have been no harm, no foul.

So yes, I took up his challenge and told him that although Wal-Mart prices were good, there are places that will ship to MA (and/or I can get it shipped to a friend in NH) and I can get similar prices (not the same brand) elsewhere. [Four Seasons has had numerous ammo sales which match/beat Wal-Mart prices.]

A day later I realized that my business schedule wouldn't permit my making a trip North prior to the class that I'm currently attending. Thus, I stopped back in the store and asked Craig for the .45 ammo. His comment to me was "why don't you go get it from your buddy?" and he didn't want to come down from the ladder he was on. He refused to help me and strung me along for ~10 minutes until another clerk (Chris) showed up for me and another lady (who appeared to be an employee who had some duplicate keys made there and was also waiting for Chris to ring her up).

I dropped ~$200 for ammo that day in that Wal-Mart, because I needed it NOW (and the No. Attleboro Wal-Mart lost their state ammo/gun dealers licenses) and I wasn't going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

Craig was way out of line, he might be your friend but I stand by my statement! I would probably report him to District/Corporate management for his arrogance, but I doubt that anyone there gives a damn. Since Sam Walton died, I have seen a massive change in "customer care" attitudes in Wal-Mart . . . and most especially the Walpole store (which is pretty much a dump compared to other Wal-Mart stores I've been in). . . and I say this about the store as a whole (specifically the housewares, cleaning supplies, and drapes/venetian blinds departments).
 
LenS,

I'm not taking either side of this argument as I wasn't there to witness the exchange(s).

What I'm doing is responding to is your statement that Craig is an "Arrogant Bastard" and someone else's statement that he is an anti.

He is neither!

As I said, I've heard the other side of this argument. And from what I've heard from you both, I don't see either of you being faultless in this exchange.



Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
So post up the other side of the argument.

Bottom line is when you are in customer service there is absolutely no reason to talk to a customer the way he did.It's an unfortunate fact.No matter if LenS threatened to beat his ass to a pulp and kill all his cats,the person in customer service has to just smile and take it.That is a good reason why I never had any sort of customer service job,I simply can't put up with all the BS.
 
It's an unfortunate fact.No matter if LenS threatened to beat his ass to a pulp and kill all his cats,the person in customer service has to just smile and take it.---Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,

Your statement is not true.



Respectfully,


jkelly
 
jkelly said:
It's an unfortunate fact.No matter if LenS threatened to beat his ass to a pulp and kill all his cats,the person in customer service has to just smile and take it.---Greg
Click to expand...

Greg,

Your statement is not true.



Respectfully,


jkelly
Click to expand...

I really wasn’t going to put my 2¢ in but I do have a comment now. My father is part owner of a successful sheet metal company. They have been in business just shy of 20 years now. I was about 6 when it started. I myself have watched the company grow from closet space to a cutting edge leader in our field. I have been working in the company since I was 18. Anyways there are a few things I have learned.

1. THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT. EVEN WHEN WRONG. We make suggestions to our customers, but when there mind is set we just say “O.K. you got it”
2. The customer is most important to the company. Without us, the customer will go elsewhere. Without the customer, we will go out of business. Get the point.

Look at the reason this thread was started. It was because of bad service, from any shop. Carl at Four Seasons has the best right up in the whole forum. Why? Because He gives some of the best service in the business. I can go anywhere I want to buy my guns. But I stick With Four Seasons and Northeast Trading because I walk in, I get a smile and I leave happy. I will not even go into the Gun Room because too many of my peers have had too many bad experiences. So now look at FS and NET compared to other shops. It’s obvious who does more business.

As far as I am concerned Lens is in the right even if he is wrong (which isn’t to often from what I can tell by reading is threads.)

Wal-Mart needs to be polite, and just go with it. There is no need for attitude. If he is agraveted with the customer and going to show it, then he should look for a job elsewhere. There is nothing personal about business. But remember %50 of the product you sell is yourself.
 
Okay guys I need you to focus a little.

I'm not arguing whether LenS got what he deserved or not. I wasn't there so I don't know and neither do you.


What I was arguing was if Craig is an "Arrogant Bastard" and an "Anti".

I based my viewpoint on many retail transactions with Craig before I came to know him as a shooter. I never had a problem with him, of course I treat everyone with respect, so maybe that helped.


As for the people who made coments about customer service, no you can't threaten their well being, it's wrong and it would be illegal.

And no the customer is not always right. If the customer is abusive then they need to be weeded out. Only a very poor boss would expect their employees to be abused.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Adam_MA said:
The Wally World in Tewksbury seems pretty good. For a while they didn't stock the 100rd WWB value pack, but all it took was me asking a couple of times and now they keep it in stock. They kids behind the counter know the difference. They always ask for my LTC whenever I want to buy handgun ammo, and when I buy rifle ammo they ask for either my FID or LTC for the sale.
Click to expand...

The Wally World in Hudson, MA is pretty good, except for not stocking long arms any more. (they said that they weren't moving them enough. Makes sense, unfortunately). Anyway, the guy who usually mans the counter is a good guy; has his LTC and I'm trying to get him to come down to Riverside and join.

So if you need ammo on a Sunday somewhere near Hudson, they're OK. (but I'll usually try to schedule my ammo needs and drive up to FS Guns. )

Ross
 
I'm not trying to pick on any posters here for their comments, so please don't take this personally.

- Some folks throw out "he must be an anti" whenever we run into issues with someone. Probably not a wise assumption.

- Using analogies of "even if a customer threatens . . ." is probably not helpful. It changes the focus from the real issue and raises other much more serious issues. NO, the customer is NOT right if s/he starts threatening the help . . . at that point the help has every right to have the customer thrown out on their ass.

- Some people are just arrogant, regardless of what they are selling. Some spin stories, trying to puff themselves up. Others like to diss their competition.

- Cases in point (without names):
* I recall the gun dept manager of a local chain of sporting goods stores (now defunct) who was very nasty to customers (and gun club members) very often. Much of it was uncalled for and just part of his "personality". Worth noting, he and I used to shoot skeet/trap together as members of the same club, I bought a lot of items from him and he never gave me any crap. He used to like to brag about how he screwed customers who came in and sold their used guns to him. BTW, he is now the gun department manager at another sporting goods shop West of Boston.
* A gun shop where at least one of the people used to tell tall tales about new laws (which really were just bills filed each year) such as a limit on how much ammo you could buy (1 box limit, IIRC) trying to convince people to buy cases "this week" because it will be illegal next week, etc.
* A gun dealer who was selling Glocks to just about anyone, even when they weren't approved for sale in MA (this was a few years ago). BTW, his prices were outrageous . . . based on what Four Seasons was getting for their "pre-10/21/98 Glocks".
* A gun shop that charged sales tax on gun safes/locks, even after being shown a copy of the MA DOR TIR which exempts these items.
* Another gun shop where I had requested permission to dry-fire a particular gun I was looking at. The owner's response was an obscene (and irrelevant) analogy! I still buy some law enforcement supplies from him and we get along.

About Wal-Mart:
- I have found the Hudson, NH Wal-Mart Sporting Goods Dept to be staffed with knowledgeable people that have been both helpful, and polite. At least 1 or 2 of them were guys that have been shooting almost their entire lives (one was a Southerner who grew up with guns). They offered info on "possible" discounts for quantity . . . I never even asked them.
- Same store, I had clerks walk me to other departments trying to find items that I asked for.
- Quality of service seems to be a huge variable, based on store management and therefore clerk's attitudes.

Specifically about Wal-Mart in Walpole:
- They charge sales tax on US Flags (tax exempt according to MA DOR) and got arrogant when I called them on it. I even had an Email from their corporate Legal Dept refuting MA DOR's ruling on the matter (which I had forwarded to them). I understand that MA DOR had some harsh words with Wal-Mart about abiding by OUR tax laws. MA DOR requested that I file a formal complaint with their Tax Fraud Dept regarding this matter.
- When we re-did our house we were looking for some drapes and venetian blinds. Some stock was on the floor and we bought it. Kept going back over 4-5 weeks looking for replenishment so that we could get other sizes we needed, no luck!
- Was looking for some kitchenware small items and they were redoing the shelves in that department. Stock was sitting in shopping carts for literally 3-4 weeks (I went back weekly), finally gave up and shopped in another Wal-Mart.
- Ammo always looks very sparse in that store, doesn't give the impression that you can rely on them for stock.
- They hire convicted drug dealers to work as cashiers! Woman I'm referring to was convicted of distribution of cocaine! [NOTE: This is NOT conjecture on my part. I saw the arrest happen and the DA personally confirmed for me that she had been adjudicated guilty and sentenced for the crime.] Don't they have a sign on the door that they do drug testing? Weird!!
- Remember what I said (twice previously) . . . Craig came across very haughty when I asked about case-lot discounts (even though I explained that I was asking because of the comment by the Hudson, NH clerk), and a simple "no, we don't do that" would have sufficed. His attitude was uncalled for and certainly DOES represent the kind of "customer disservice" that I see in that store.
- I do believe that the Walpole store shows signs that the management there is terrible and this trickles down to most departments at all levels.

I would be curious to see you write what Craig's version of the events were? Why not post them here?
 
LenS,

I'll say this again, I've posted on this thread only to refute the statements made that Craig is an "Arrogant Bastard" and an "Anti". He is neither!

I base that on my experience with him and the opinons of others, who have bought from and/or have shot with him over a period of several years. No one I know, that knows Craig, has ever had a problem with him.

Why you two had a problem with each other, I don't know! And as I've said before, I won't take either side in your disagreement as I wasn't there.

Your problem with W-M is between you and W-M and is not relevent to our difference of opinion on Craig.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
jkelly, I think that the adage "a fish rots from its head" may apply here. That particular store doesn't appear to be well managed (from my "customer" viewpoint).

Indeed the problem between Craig and myself only reflects on WM due to the fact that WM puts up with employees that would treat customers that way.

Take me out of the equation for just a minute. A lady who obviously was a WM employee had some keys made (I think that Craig cut the keys for her) then made her stand there for ~10 minutes before she saw another employee and asked him to page Chris to ring her up and myself. I fail to understand why the Dept Mgr didn't complete her sale? Looks poor from a "customer" viewpoint . . . and she didn't have any verbal spat with him, she was just left to hang there.

No matter how you slice it, Craig's behavior to me was "in your face" arrogance . . . "we have the best prices anywhere and nobody will ship to you, so there". Not a very polite attitude, that is for sure. Yes, after he threw that in my face I politely but pointedly told him that he was wrong, I know of places with equal (and sometimes better) prices and places that will ship to MA. I have no idea what motivated him to act that way, but my assessment was based on these dealings with him and are just as valid as your experiences with him.
 
LenS,

You don't seem to be listening. Your problem with W-M is between you and W-M and I couldn't care less about that.

As for Craig, I know a large number of people who know him and I have not heard any thing but good things about him over a period of several years.

Quite frankly Len I think you and I have spent way way to much time and engery on a perceived slight from a retail clerk.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
I agree! jkelly and I are just repeating that each of us disagrees with the other's opinion. It isn't going to change either of our minds on the issue, so I'm going to just let it drop.

Let's move on here . . . there have to be other terrible gun shops, right? [twisted]
 
Another Vote for Sportman's Trading

Okay, here's my 2 cents. I stopped by a little while ago to get some ideas about what kind of guns to get as a CAS newbie. I had pretty much decided on 2 stainless Vaqueros and a Marlin 94 Cowboy I described what I was looking for and asked a few questions about the guns.

The man there (Al?) went to his computer and started going through a data base. I told him I wanted aMArlin Cowboy in 45 Collt with a 24' octagon barrel. He replied it only came in 20" ang gave me a price. WRONG! It does come in the longer barrel.

As for the Rugers, he went through a few more pages of his data base and told me he could get me two of the kind I wanted for $475 each and "no shipping". I couldnt get hime to tell me if they were old or new Vaqueros. Okay, it's a little high - I saw one $450 only a few miles away.

Then the neat part. He made a phone call to somone and then began to tell me that to get the Rugers at this price, "the deal had to happen right now". Some yarn about last month being a "Ruger Month" and a special sale, his partner was filing out some paper work that very minute to send to Ruger to somehow document this discount price, yaddaX3.

Let's see, a "special deal" but you have to act "right now". Was I being hustled? Gosh, I think so! It was just like the old used car buying days!
Plus he tried to BS me about the Marlin.

I hustled right out the door I came in.

The Old Ranger
 
Re: Another Vote for Sportman's Trading

The Old Ranger said:
Okay, here's my 2 cents. I stopped by a little while ago to get some ideas about what kind of guns to get as a CAS newbie. I had pretty much decided on 2 stainless Vaqueros and a Marlin 94 Cowboy I described what I was looking for and asked a few questions about the guns.

The man there (Al?) went to his computer and started going through a data base. I told him I wanted aMArlin Cowboy in 45 Collt with a 24' octagon barrel. He replied it only came in 20" ang gave me a price. WRONG! It does come in the longer barrel.

As for the Rugers, he went through a few more pages of his data base and told me he could get me two of the kind I wanted for $475 each and "no shipping". I couldnt get hime to tell me if they were old or new Vaqueros. Okay, it's a little high - I saw one $450 only a few miles away.

Then the neat part. He made a phone call to somone and then began to tell me that to get the Rugers at this price, "the deal had to happen right now". Some yarn about last month being a "Ruger Month" and a special sale, his partner was filing out some paper work that very minute to send to Ruger to somehow document this discount price, yaddaX3.

Let's see, a "special deal" but you have to act "right now". Was I being hustled? Gosh, I think so! It was just like the old used car buying days!
Plus he tried to BS me about the Marlin.

I hustled right out the door I came in.

The Old Ranger
Click to expand...

Which shop was that, OR?
 
Right - Sportsman's Trading

Right, it was Sportsman's Trading in Rte 101A in Amherst, NH. I should have put that in the text as well.

v/r

The Old Ranger
 
Montague Gun Exchange, Greenfield, MA

i don't know if this qualifies as worst gun shop, but deffinitely shady. the store is located on Chapmen St. between a bar and a porn shop. good location. [wink]

i walked in the other day just to pasds the time. i asked the guy behind the counter about an AR hanging on the wall. wondered if it was pre or post ban. he told me that it didn't really matter unless i did something wrong and got caught. well, he doesn't know me from a hole in the wall. what if i was from the AG's office or something?

also, prices were kind of outrageous. $500+ for a gen 1 glock 17 w/ 2 10 round mags. $350 for used remmington 870.
 
I think the poster from Nantucket may have been talking about my least favorite stealer The Powder Horn in Hyannis MA. What a joke they are.
Same overpriced guns in there whever I stop in. I have scored a few great deals in there due to their arrogant ignorance, but most of their stuff is made of gold and you'll do fins in there as long as you remember you are an idiot with no direction or possible clue as to what you want or are talking about. I've heard the owner Mark tell more than one potential customer not to let the door hit them on the way out. Mark btw is in dire need of a better hygene regiment. Saturday night baths just do not cut it mark.

The've had an obvious rack grade SA M1 with a sewer pipe bore and ratty wood on the rack for close to 800 beans for months now. They are charging 30 cents a round for mixed turk 8mm loose in a box. I hate to do it but I do buy 40's and SG shells from them from time to time as they are priced about the same as wally world but much closer. They also have a decent albeit overpriced selection of NRA targets.

If I go it's usually on sundays when a couple of seniors are working. The guy is sort of a boob and the woman nice but lacks any real knowledge of what she's selling but I can more easily tolerate them for the 15 or 20 minutes it takes me to do my thing.

HTH
C-
 
Any thoughts on Ct. shops?
I cant stand the attitude of some employees at New England outfitters, Wallingford.
I do not go there.
I've been happy w/Hoffmans in Newington. I've heard of people complain about their prices but so far Im happy.
Dicks sporting goods in Waterford and Newington is good also and the guy in waterford actually knew his stuff.
As far as Wall Mart, I refuse to set foot in there ever again. I dont care if I pay 1$ more for a box of ammo. I avoid the parking, the sales lines and waiting for someone to open up the ammo display.
On top of that, the alarms that control invintory seem to go off on every one going out the door. I twice had a lady seem dissapointed when she looked in my bag and I had a sales recipt to prove I did pay for the items. She walked away in a huff..
A lot of their goods are imported crap and Id rather pay more and have something last longer and support some american somewhere.
When we talk about them putting gun shops out of business, the same applies to smaller shops that sell other things we buy. Clothes,hardware, electronics etc.
What I've found after not setting foot in wall mart in quite some time is you get way better service and a lot of times same or better prices.
Wall Mart is great at marketing. There great at opening several stores in a area to shut down small business then to close some of the WMs after they've eliminated the compition. Same with Home Depot. I run a small business and use the smaller hardware stores for my needs. Im out faster and they carry what I need.
 
My Latest Picks for Worst

Have to agree with a couple of previous posts here, Sportmen Trading in Amherst, NH has to be the absolute worst, he excels in stupidity and rudeness; the runner up in my opinion would be Earl's in Tewksbury, while not quite as uncivilized as Sportsmen Trading, Earl takes the lead in pure arrogance (repeatedly claims that anything coming out of his shop has to be superior to any other delaer's products; he especially likes to bad mouth Walther America) and prices so outragiously high as to insult the intelligence of any kowledgeable person (and not just a few dollars high, he can price a gun several hundred dollars more than what the current market price is).
 
Previous owner of Collectors

Let me start by saying that when I was at Collectors Guns in Stoneham two weeks ago, the guy that waited on me was very patient, not pushy, and informative.
That said, I remember the previous owner back in the day when they were way down the street. This guy was such a jerk I almost quit the gun hobby- he was condescending, rude, unprofessional, and not a good businessman. This is going back ten years and I still wish I had told him off the last time I went into his shop.
THE model for excellent customer service and courtesy remains Four Seasons in Woburn. Each and every one of the guys is great.
 
I was in both FS and Collector's yesterday.

At Collector's he had genuine H&K USP and USPc/2000 mags for $12.95 each. The sign said 9mm and .40S&W. I sorted thru all of them looking for USPc in .40S&W. Jack made a call to his distributor and then looked over to me and told me that he would have the .40s in a day or so! I didn't even ask him to do that.

As I told Jack, I'll probably be back up his way in ~1 week and pick up the mags (4). That's customer service.

Jack/Collector's is "one of the good guys"! He knows that Carl/FS has "set the bar" for customer service and it is a very high one, and he (Jack) attempts to provide similar service to his customers.

I heard many of the stories of the prior owner of Collector's. I'm just glad that I didn't know that the place existed back then.
 
Here is my bad experince at AG Guns in Lowell. I dropped off a gun to get fitted with night sights(SW99) and to check out the store. Guy at the counter says they will call me back to give me an estimate. Fine guy calls me back saying neither he nor his distributor know of any night sights that fit that gun, they are going to call S&W and ask them. 4 days later I call back they state that S&W never called them back they will try again. I let this go for another couple of days before I go and just pick it up. Low and behold I call S&W myself and now they are going to do the work for me. Last time I go to AG.
 
WOW!
I have been in that store many times. Actually I purchased my first handgun there. I was in there about 2 weeks ago, and I pulled my Kahr K40 mag out of my mag holder and asked if they had any. They took it from me, and went over to the computer and told me how much, and how fast they could get one for me.

On your issue... I have heard from someone recently that they don't like to do any shipping for customers.

Adam
 
Yea I was disappointed after hearing all of the positive things about them on this board. Needless to say it made me appreciate my usual go-to place, Blue Northern Trading in Ayer. Those guys are great an know how to treat a customer.
 
Too bad you had an unpleasant experiance...

Oh well, if you have a place that you like, the people are nice to deal with, and the prices are right, that's the place you should stick to.

Ever been to Four Seasons?

Adam
 

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