Those crappy low brass bird rounds suck. They usually expend and get stuck in the chamber. You should find high brass stuff and just lose the bird shot a together. Shoot buck or slugs. It's you're HD shotgun. Not a hunting gun.
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So My 870 Express Tactical Sucks... Now What?
- Thread starter SubieGuy4
- Start date
Regarding the barrel, it's not that I was looking for some special tactical barrel. I want the XS ghost ring sights that some on the tactical model but that's not the issue. The tactical model has the ring that does around the mag tube further down the barrel. The Tactical has a fixed 6-round tube and the ring is right at the end of that, only a few inches from the muzzle. That setup is different than virtually all other 870 Expresses, which is why it was hard to find.
As for he price of the tactical model, I agree it doesn't make sense compared to the base Express cost of around $350. The issue is that what I value on the tactical model would require mild gun smithing (have to at least have a rail on top, as I think a red dot is a must on a defensive long gun). Add furniture and XS sights and you're getting close to the price tag. I then justify the mild premium because I'd usually rather factory mods than taking something to a gun smith.
No I'm not sending it in. Per my update, I ordered the parts from Remington because I was feeling confident they wouldn't repair it for free, so sending it in would be a waste of time. For all I know, I've wasted $195 on parts and they would have fixed it (out of warranty and with modifications...). In any case I ordered on Monday and the parts arrived today.
Will shoot it this weekend to confirm the new parts solve the problem. If the issue persists, I'll eat my shoe, cry myself to sleep, then send the gun in next week...
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Yes if you need to pay a gunsmith to do mods it's pretty much a wash. I didn't notice the barrel I like ked was a "conversion".
I still would like a,picture of the crack. I still try to pick up 870s when,a deal comes my way. Like to know what to look for on the tactical barrel if one comes my way.
Updated the resolution.
I have to spend like 40 minutes scrubbing leading out of the old barrel before I can get a picture of the crack (I shoot slugs frequently and it's quite a job to clean the barrel afterward). I'll try to remember to send you a picture when I do that.
I have to spend like 40 minutes scrubbing leading out of the old barrel before I can get a picture of the crack (I shoot slugs frequently and it's quite a job to clean the barrel afterward). I'll try to remember to send you a picture when I do that.
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Really, leading or wad fouling. I do get a fair amount of plastic build up but that generally takes a,long time with my 870. Honestly though I don't clean my shotgun barrels to often. Boresnake then a oiled barrel mop...
I'll try to make the preamble quick...
The gun is a Remington 870 Express Tactical Magpul Edition.
Got this gun about 2 years ago as my first (and still only) shotgun. At the time it was my home defense long gun and initially it seemed to work well. Before long I noticed a small crack on the inside of the barrel, about half way down. I contacted Remington (no easy task) and when they said I'd have to send the whole gun in to get it serviced, I said screw that and left it. I have no interest in dealing with an inept company that can't receive and send a single part (see Ruger customer service for an example of how it's done). I would have been willing to spend $150 to just get a new barrel, but I challenge you to find an Express Tactical barrel for sale. Key word there is Tactical. Can't seem to source one from Remington without sending in the whole shotgun, and I can't find a site that sells it.
Now more recently I'm running into more severe problems. The crack never got worse so I can get over that. Now the gun is only about 50% reliable. What happens is rounds jam in the chamber after firing and won't come out. If the rim has a good ledge to it, the extractor holds tight and you can't run the pump without slamming the stock into the ground. If the rim doesn't have a good ledge, the extractor jumps it about every 2-3 shots and you get a double feed (not a practical clearance drill during a fight or a bear attack...). It seems the ejector might also be going, as I sometimes get failures to eject, but at least that's a part I can get.
Issues TLDR:
Crack inside the barrel... Not sending in the whole gun for service. Constant failures to extract (sometimes inducing double feeds, depending on if the extractor jumps the rim) and occasional failures to eject.
Attempted Remedies:
I polished the chamber thoroughly. It helped slightly for a while but now it's worse than ever. I tried replacing the extractor and extractor spring to make sure grip on the rim wasn't part of the problem (this worked so now it seems to be a barrel/chamber problem).
At this point I just don't want the thing. Even if I could get a new barrel, I'd be quick to try to sell the gun. I don't like the controls on Mossbergs, so I'm stuck with Remington. I think I want a Police Magnum next, as I understand they are much better made. I didn't know shotguns well enough when I got this, so I didn't like the idea of getting a Police Magnum and having to change the furniture and all. Still not loving the idea of all I'd have to do to put real iron sights and a rail on it, but I could handle that....
Anyone have any input on what I can do with the existing gun? I paid $750 for it and I'd need to unload it for at least $450. Even if I could get that much for it though, I'm not about to sell a defensive style gun that doesn't work right... Where do I go from here?
Resolved:
Called Remington today and ended up speaking to a polite and helpful woman. Rather than giving me the "nope, you have to send it in" line, and not caring, she spent 30 minutes with me and tracked down what I needed. She had to look up the parts diagram for he specific model shotgun in order to get the barrel part number. She confirmed it's an exceedingly uncommon barrel which they only stock in single digit numbers. This is likely why I haven't had luck finding one (even on Remington's parts site).
She confidently assured me that it's an exact match to my gun, due to how she looked it up, so hopefully I won't be back here whining again if it turns out to be 'the other barrel'.
She also found me an extractor, extractor spring, ejector spring, and choke wrench, and sent it out for under $200 shipped.
If all this fixes the problem I suppose I'll probably keep the gun. Definitely happier with Remington after this experience. This is the way it should work in my mind. If I want a part, sell me the part. It's my own problem to get it properly installed. Pleased it was able to go that way.
Update:
Got the barrel. Remington has started Cerekoting the tactical model since I bought mine, so the barrel came Cerekoted black. Nice touch.
This barrel does further support my feeling that Remington quality sucks. Works fine (I'll get to that) but the inside of the barrel is imperfect directly below the roll marks. Both sets of roll marks produced noticeable deformations inside the barrel. It's a shotgun so it won't matter much, but that's a pretty dumb flaw.
Still having the issue with it locking up with cheap Winchester target loads, but it ran high brass buck and slugs without a hiccup, so I'm pleased. I'll just start using better target loads for practice (and pissing off fudds by shooting trap with my 18" tactical shotgun with a red dot).
Bottom line is that the gun works now, but I'd never buy an 870 Express again. Next time I'd get a Police Magnum and get all the work done after market. Heck, the next time around I'd abandon Remington all together, but again, I don't like the Mossberg controls.
FUDDs are only aggravated when you show up with a Tactical shotgun and actual shoot well.
When I was shooting trap before my kids where born. A "freak" as the funds called him showed up.
Weird hair style,piercings all over some odd tattoos dressed rather sloppy and yes a tactical 1100
Short barrel pistol grip....the fudds had a field day. Then the kid shot darn good. He shot high teens low 20s. Last I seen him he just made NRA distinguished expert shotgun/trap with the tactical set up.
Red dot for trap IMHO is,only going to get in the way. Several of us at my club tried the burris speed bead the one that mounts between the stock and receiver. I tried it all year. Never got to shooting my best with it. If your shotgun shoots where your looking and you follow through ANY shotgun will work for trap.
As for your fail to extract so often it's not the chamber and "polishing" the chamber often makes it worse. I will try to get some pics of the problem I have found.
3 primary weak spots on all 870s
Extractor the cast ones suck especially if your haveing extraction issues.
Ejector stake. Often it is staked poorly and the ejector is sloppy.
Carrier- often times people tweak the carrier during cleaning.
It's easily bent enough to cause issues. Also the carrier spring is often weak.
As I said before other than a few inexpensive up grades I don't think the police model is built with any more care than the standard.
The primary things I have seen
Yes the finish on the receivers is a polished a bit more.
Heavier carrier spring, sear spring and magazine spring. Better extractor( think they are edm wire cut now) All of which are available after market and have been for 20plus years.
Trigger group, stamped steel standard cross bolt safety. With a heavier sear spring turning the 4-7lb trigger into a 7-10lb trigger
Shorter pump handle and has a reinforced piece to keep from splitting
After many years of playing around with 870s I have learned a few things. One they are a pretty solid design or they would not be around 65 years later. They are for the most part inexpensive for remington to build. The 870 is the working man's shotgun. 99% of all 870 problems come down to quality.
Plus as you found out the tactical model you have has the longer one piece magazine tube vs the typical extension. There in changing the hanger location.
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Leading. Had a threat a while back when it built up real bad and I couldn't clear it out. At the time I didn't know if it was wad fouling or lead. After retooling a bit to get it out, all the stuff that I scraped out was definitely lead. When I shoot bird/buck, a pass with the boresnake, then a pass or two with patches, and it's clean. When I shoot slugs, the cleaning job goes from 5 minutes to 40. It's especially bad when I shoot 3" slugs, which I do during most range trips.
I only periodically clean any of the rest of the shotgun, but the barrel tends to need cleaning after every range trip.
As for shooting trap, I don't do it at all seriously. Most of the time I'll just do hand thrown clays on the adjacent trap range and get a bunch of frumpy looks. Like you said though, I'm of the mind that basically any shotgun is viable for shooting clays. Hand me an under-over, a 28" Wingmaster, or an 18" tactical gun and it's all the same once you adjust for a minute. I agree a red dot is no advantage. I don't do it because I specifically want a red dot for shooting clays. It's just my only shotgun and it's a defensive setup, so I use it as is. Actually, what gets the fudds riled up more than the gun is the fact that I load more than 2 shells at a time. They seem to have a mental block on the fact that the gun holds 6 and doesn't go bang unless there's one in the chamber.
The more than 2 shells on the trap range is a long standing rule and its much of a safety issue also. Most trap ranges you must empty your shotgun before stepping from the line. Its all good..... our club no longer allows hand thrown targets to many problems with unsafe handling
dcmdon
NES Member
Subie - I'm not flaming, but I've never heard a more twisted justification for not using a warranty that you paid for, in my entire life.
Why are you looking for a reason to spend money. If you push them, Remington would have even paid for the return shipping. So for a bit of time spent packing and shipping, you could have had the entire gun gone through.
I find it difficult to justify a thread title that says the gun sucks,when you haven't even given Remington a chance to make it right.
I'm no fan of Remington, by the way. I've seen a lot of bad executions of classic GOOD guns over the last 3 or 4 years. Including a couple of 870s that were disasters.
Why are you looking for a reason to spend money. If you push them, Remington would have even paid for the return shipping. So for a bit of time spent packing and shipping, you could have had the entire gun gone through.
I find it difficult to justify a thread title that says the gun sucks,when you haven't even given Remington a chance to make it right.
I'm no fan of Remington, by the way. I've seen a lot of bad executions of classic GOOD guns over the last 3 or 4 years. Including a couple of 870s that were disasters.
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I stick by the thread title based on the fact that the first barrel was cracked, they didn't care the first time, and then it all got really bad. No shotgun should render itself unusable in under 1000 rounds.
Now having said that, I concede defeat. You and a number of people are most likely right and, even if you're not, I have no grounds to argue because I basically spent $200 because I was lazy and wanted instant gratification (and therefore never tried). The fact that it was an issue in the first place leaves me bitter about Remington, but I probably made a bigger deal of all this than was warranted.
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I have had the experience with shells getting stuck in 870 chamber on several of the shotguns. The fix is to take a shotgun barrel diameter wire cleaning brush, wrap some fine steel wool around it, chuck it in a power drill, and ream the chamber for about 30 seconds or less. After I did that I never had any problem with shells sticking again.
This is one of the fixes although if the rim is,hanging up on the opposite side from the extractor polishing will often make it worse. Shotgun barrel is relatively soft metal and it's easy to remove material.
Laziness will always cost you. It's very rare for a gun manufacture or any manufacture to not want to see the entire assembly for warranty. If your car had warrenty issues you bring in the entire car.... don't you. There has been exceptions. Mossberg would send new firepins for the early silver reserve shotguns.
In the end you got it fixed which made you somewhat happy right.
You learned a valuable thing an express is an express no matter what bling they hang on it.
The express was 100% in concept to push the least expensive manufacturing cost.
Now the police model you mentioned is not a whole lot better really. Other than Mildred and Louise working over in the LE shop slapping them together . Oh and they actually test function each one to make sure they can work the 870 kinks out. After that it's cosmetic and some heavier inexpensive spring up grades.
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dcmdon
NES Member
Wow. Owning up to your mistakes. I like it.
We've all let impatience get the best of us.
The problem with Remington these days is that their QC is nonexistant and the quality of their products is very inconsistent.
I recently picked up a very very cheap Rem 700 AAC (friends and family discount). I expected it to suck. But its a tack driver.
The trigger is terrible compared to a stock Savage, but it really shoots and at 16", it works nicely with a can. I like it much more than I thought I would.
In contrast, when I was a (very small time) retail FFL in CT until last year, I sold maybe 10 remington shotguns over the previous 3 or 4 years and had trouble with 3 of them. Its really disappointing when my bottom of the barrel 24 year old 870 express has run flawlessly; having survived years of salt water duck hunting. And the new stuff won't run properly when new.
PS I, too, have opted to solve the problem myself. I have a high mileage 6906 that S&W used to send me parts for. More recently they have refused any such service and demand return of the gun, but they will pay the freight. The 6906 began to double on me (after bout 60,000 rounds or so) and S&W wanted the gun back. Rather than go through the hassle of shipping, I bought a new hammer and sear from Numrich; problem solved. This method works best when you are extremely familiar with the firearm and the problem.
dcmdon
NES Member
Its not that big a deal when the company is like S&W. They email you a label. And if you don't have a box, they will ship you a box with a label inside. They will even arrange for UPS to pick it up at your house.
All you need is tape.
Don
