Some people just plain scare me at the range!

[Scrivener]

Holding a training session without payment is a violation of the FLSA regardless if it is agreed on or not.

One additional four hour firearm's training session would cost my department in the area of 16 to 18k. Not inconsequential. Add to that the other eight to ten mandated in-service training sessions and it strains the budget.

A significant, and certainly understandable, impediment.

Then again, how much will it cost to defend the town and officer(s) in a lawsuit alleging inadequate training, negligence, excessive force, etc. should someone be killed or injured by a misplaced or unwarranted shot?

 

[otasan]

I Feel For You Brother

I honestly don't want this to turn into a 2nd A debate or a LTC training requirement discussion but I have to tell ya- some people just have NO common sense when handling guns at the range. They shouldn't even own a gun.

I've seen people walking off the line with their muzzle pointing everywhere but downrange, I've seen people checking their guns by looking into the muzzle, people that can't freaking keep their finger off the trigger, people that turn to talk to others with the gun moving in the direction of the other folks, I've seen people shoot the damn ground 10 feet in front of them when the target was 25 feet away at 5 feet off the ground, etc. God it make me insane.

Oh yeah- I do try to help them out in a polite and courteous way... as much as I want to scream! Am I alone in my perspective?

I have had loaded handguns pointed at me countless times, from my home range at Grafton County Fish & Game in est Lebanon, NH to even organized pin-shooting matches in NH.

Once at Chester, NH years ago, a shooter swept the entire group of shooters with a Condition Zero Colt .45 Auto at arm's length, and I was the only one to try to take cover.

Thankfully, the staff at Chester is lock-solid with gun safety nowadays.

 

[M1911]

Then again, how much will it cost to defend the town and officer(s) in a lawsuit alleging inadequate training, negligence, excessive force, etc. should someone be killed or injured by a misplaced or unwarranted shot?

How does the policeman's prayer go? "Please Lord, don't let it happen on my watch."

I think for many smaller departments, they just hope that nothing bad happens. And given how few officer-involved shootings they have, it generally works out for them.

 

[Blitz1]

What I've read in this thread scares me. [sad2]

Blitz1

 

[vicpinto]

Serious question.

What's the proper etiquette when handling a firearm at say Four Seasons when there's say 20 people in the store? You can't point it "downrange", or to the sides. I know I wouldn't appreciate being swept inside a gun store regardless of how many times a day the gun is cleared as part of handing it to a potential customer. The rule: "Treat every gun as if it's loaded" still applies. What's a guy to do? Point it down?

 

[Lugnut]

What's the proper etiquette when handling a firearm at say Four Seasons when there's say 20 people in the store? You can't point it "downrange", or to the sides. I know I wouldn't appreciate being swept inside a gun store regardless of how many times a day the gun is cleared as part of handing it to a potential customer. The rule: "Treat every gun as if it's loaded" still applies. What's a guy to do? Point it down?

Great point you brought up. I don't even think that they pay too much attention to where people point. I'll tell you what is the worst though... having someone point it directly at you... I've had it happen and don't like it.

I usually ask if I can dry fire into the ground. Sometimes up is ok- depending on where you are. When in doubt- ask. The good thing is that most shops at least make the gun safe when handing it over.

 

[clinotus]

What's the proper etiquette when handling a firearm at say Four Seasons when there's say 20 people in the store? You can't point it "downrange", or to the sides. I know I wouldn't appreciate being swept inside a gun store regardless of how many times a day the gun is cleared as part of handing it to a potential customer. The rule: "Treat every gun as if it's loaded" still applies. What's a guy to do? Point it down?

There should be a sandtrap present in the store. My local shop has one and it makes a lot of sense as its laid back and more than a few people CCW there.

HOWEVER the golden rule I follow comes from something that I read on a sign in a shop in NH about 10 years ago that simply stated: "No one here is interested in seeing your cock or your gun. Keep em' both in your pants and under your belt."

Having shared that, at any gun shop I visit I dont take any gun from anyone unless the action is locked back and open for semis and if two fingers arent through the action on the revolver. I'll stand there with a dumb look on my face until the clerk/owner solves the situation.

 

[dwarven1]

Holding a training session without payment is a violation of the FLSA regardless if it is agreed on or not.

One additional four hour firearm's training session would cost my department in the area of 16 to 18k. Not inconsequential. Add to that the other eight to ten mandated in-service training sessions and it strains the budget.

I wonder if there isn't some way to encourage the officers to take training on their own. Perhaps arrange for discounted training with local trainers or something? Or would most LEOs just say "Hey, I don't care if it's free, I ain't getting paid so I ain't gonna do it!"?

 

[drew]

I have talked to alot of LEOs and these are some of the responses I got. "I'm not going to spend my time and my money" "if I'm not getting paid, i'm going to do it" etc.

 

[drew]

My personal favorite was "I qualify once a year, aint that enough?"

 

[JonJ]

I wonder if there isn't some way to encourage the officers to take training on their own. Perhaps arrange for discounted training with local trainers or something? Or would most LEOs just say "Hey, I don't care if it's free, I ain't getting paid so I ain't gonna do it!"?

We've gone over this many times here. If it's not mandated, the majority isn't going to do it. They are not interested and it's not a priority. Their firearm is just another tool. They Qual once a year and are satisfied that they are proficient enough. A false sense of security that's reinforced by the department and training council.

I asked for ammo .223 & .40 last week. I was told we can't spare any .223, we can't get it I was given 2 boxes of .40 that a retiree had just dropped off that morning. I'd be afraid to ask for more this soon.

We have guys that refuse to take a rifle and opt for a shotgun because they know that they are not proficient with it. Not everyone has an AR they can practice with and the department will not issue one for someone to take out on their own.

I'd love to see the training council include a couple IDPA or other similar competition stages to the Qual but that will never happen. It's a Qual, NOT training. It would open many officer's eyes.

 

[drew]

I agree with JohnJ, there should be more real-life scenarios ran for qual, other than just standing, kneeling, squating.... Qual should be behind a barricade, weak hand, sitting down (cruiser simulated) hostage scenario etc... all real world shit that could happen...