Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

[Sparky123]

Once, many years ago, Haverhill MA tried to restrict my renewal to 'target and hunting'. So, I got a free 15 minute consult with a good attorney and got some good advice. I then went back to the Chief with "I talked to my attorney and he suggested this ...", no surprise, the police agreed, I met those conditions and I got my full, unrestricted permit. They didn't seem to be very pissed off at all.

It doesn't necesssarily have to result in a long, drawn out, expensive court confrontation.

Long, drawn-out or not, you should not have to do that. You should not need a lawyer or a reason to own a gun. The sad truth is Massachusetts will simply ignore this ruling. For us, it will be business as usual. Massachusetts will spend millions of taxpayer dollars to fight this on a state and local level.

 

[pastera]

If the NFA fails the ATF's existence would be in question and the Treasury should have to refund every penny they collected on NFA tax stamps, fees, and the like.

While the money should be returned, I think the general consensus would be to let it fall and lose the money it that was the only reason to keep it.

 

[Hoover]

Any recommendations ?

Just tell them what is going on. They’re not new to this, they’ll know what is the best course to follow.

 

[mcshooter]

If they deem all mag restrictions unconstitutional, there will be a lot of happy MA folks

 

[Picton]

If they deem all mag restrictions unconstitutional, there will be a lot of happy MA folks

And a lot of unhappy Classified sellers.

 

[DungeBerry63]

Call Comm2A and FPC. SCOTUS said it’s a right to carry, a right delayed is an abuse no one should be subjected to

emailed comm2a couldnt find a number and emailed FPC

 

[Mesatchornug]

While the money should be returned, I think the general consensus would be to let it fall and lose the money it that was the only reason to keep it.

SCOTUS undoes the NFA for Independence Day, and all it costs us is 88 years of sunk cost in the form of registration fees?

(sure, I have no skin in this game; but, let's overlook that for a second)

 

[Hoover]

Are these to be heard next term (hopefully) or did I really miss something current term?

These 4 cases were pending cert at SCOTUS and put on hold while NYSRPA was decided. Now SCOTUS needs to deny cert (let the lower court decision stand, vacate and remand to a lower court to redo based on NYSRPA or accept the case for the next term which starts in October.

There were dozens of other cases in district courts and appeals courts put on hold over the past 8 months pending NYSRPA decision. Those will all start up again and have NYSRPA as the law and standard of review to follow

 

[jhblaze1]

CA not getting the hint

State Attorney General Suggests Considering Applicants' Ideological Viewpoints in Denying Carry Licenses

Friday, the day after the New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass'n v. Bruen Supreme Court decision, the California Attorney General…

reason.com

 

[DungeBerry63]

Just tell them what is going on. They’re not new to this, they’ll know what is the best course to follow.

Ive emailed both lets see what they say thanks ever so much

 

[Hoover]

CA not getting the hint

State Attorney General Suggests Considering Applicants' Ideological Viewpoints in Denying Carry Licenses

Friday, the day after the New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass'n v. Bruen Supreme Court decision, the California Attorney General…

reason.com

If the licensing regulations are not definitive (not the subjective rules in MA, CA, NY, NJ, HI, MD) and reasonable, SCOTUS will slap them down if the lower courts don’t. The opinion was clear and pretty far reaching

 

[Mesatchornug]

And a lot of unhappy Classified sellers.

We can all have a toast about it - them, to their "lost profit;" us, to the market which doth provide; and everyone to increased human liberty.

 

[Hoover]

emailed comm2a couldnt find a number and emailed FPC

Be patient, I’d guess they’re getting many calls and e-mails today

 

[Garys]

When the 55MPH speed limit was repealed, did everyone who had to pay a traffic ticket get a refund? When Prohibition was repealed, did they let Al Capone out of prison?

If the NFA fails the ATF's existence would be in question and the Treasury should have to refund every penny they collected on NFA tax stamps, fees, and the like.

 

[Bladerunner]

Wouldn't be so sure. If the standard held in Bruen is used against AWB/mag restrictions, I think they fall.

The two step process was explitly listed as a key question in the petition. Said process is now invalid, therefore, so is the ban.

 

[Garys]

If the magazine limits fail, I'll happily donate my pre ban 30 round magazines to a "magazine shoot" for NES green members.

We can all have a toast about it - them, to their "lost profit;" us, to the market which doth provide; and everyone to increased human liberty.

 

[Garys]

As with Caetano, until explicitly overturned by SCOTUS benighted states such a MA, VT, and the rest of the Merry Band of Commies will continue to enforce it.

The two step process was explitly listed as a key question in the petition. Said process is now invalid, therefore, so is the ban.

 

[Bladerunner]

As with Caetano, until explicitly overturned by SCOTUS benighted states such a MA, VT, and the rest of the Merry Band of Commies will continue to enforce it.

Bottom line: Arbitrary magazine bans will not survive legal scrutiny from here on out. Any common use item, will also not survive prohibition.

 

[pastera]

When the 55MPH speed limit was repealed, did everyone who had to pay a traffic ticket get a refund? When Prohibition was repealed, did they let Al Capone out of prison?

State has the authority to set and change limits
Al Capone was snagged on tax evasion - he was still guilty even after the repeal.

The tax on certain items of the NFA possibly could be upheld as $200 isn't highly prohibitive in todays dollars but the registry will need to opened and state level prohibitions removed.
Under the text of Bruen, the NFA should be struck down but SCOTUS likely isn't going to take up anything related. It would need to be taken up in a very favorable circuit to have any chance of getting anywhere.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

If they deem all mag restrictions unconstitutional, there will be a lot of happy MA folks

I could cut my loaded mag stash in half with shiny new plastic magpul 20-rounders

If the suppressor ban was overturned I could enjoy shooting without two sets of ears for the 308.

And not have to worry about going deaf if I chose it for home defense in the middle of the night and don’t put on the ears

Ah, one can dream.

 

[jhblaze1]

If the licensing regulations are not definitive (not the subjective rules in MA, CA, NY, NJ, HI, MD) and reasonable, SCOTUS will slap them down if the lower courts don’t. The opinion was clear and pretty far reaching

agree...but the fact that Bonta is telling issuance authorities that "good moral character" DQs are skill ok is troubling if for no reason other than it will take someone having to battle it in court. In the meantime people who are "racist" or "fiscally unstable" can be denied.

 

[kieron]

Attleboro, Seekonk and Norton toeing the line. I thought Attleboro was more green than this...

Some Attleboro area police chiefs see little change on gun licenses, await state guidance

Some Attleboro area police chiefs say there are no immediate changes in how they issue gun licenses and that they are awaiting for state guidelines on the legal ramifications of

www.thesunchronicle.com

 

[pastera]

Attleboro, Seekonk and Norton toeing the line. I thought Attleboro was more green than this...

Some Attleboro area police chiefs see little change on gun licenses, await state guidance

Some Attleboro area police chiefs say there are no immediate changes in how they issue gun licenses and that they are awaiting for state guidelines on the legal ramifications of

www.thesunchronicle.com

Except if those towns are already green and acting as shall issue there wouldn't be a change in how they issue.

Admittedly I don't know how green those towns are - if they aren't like Taunton then they should get a hard, fast and personally expensive smackdown

 

[Mass-diver]

Bottom line: Arbitrary magazine bans will not survive legal scrutiny from here on out. Any common use item, will also not survive prohibition.

Agreed there is absolutely not way mag bans and AWBs can survive this ruling. That’s not to say things will change overnight, in fact it may take a number of years for states to be forced to comply via lawsuits, but it’s game over for both of those pieces of law.

 

[VetteGirlMA]

Bruen eclipses the premise that a firearm need be or need not be a military weapon.
Miller should fall given the dicta in Bruen, McDonald and Heller

Edit to add my useless opinion of why Miller must fall:
Bruen calls out a standard above strict scrutiny - the state must show that a limitation is closely related to a historic limitation and is closely related to the state interest.

Items covered by Miller are available and the supply was not limited until 1986 however there is no significant history of the items contributing to illegal actions except for a simple prohibition of possession without the tax stamp. The state simply cannot justify the limitation. What could get us is the proliferation of Chinese giggle switches but that could be overcome by the fact that Miller is simply ineffective at its intended cause therefore doesn't overcome the burden to be narrowly tailored

I've read the actual SCOTUS decision in US vs Miller, in fact I have a book on the decision. Was what relevant in the upholding of Miller's trial of possession of a sawed off shotgun is that at the time SCOTUS analyzed the NFA and said that since the military does not use sawed off shotguns then they qualify as unusual weapons that can be regulated. So in Miller's terms weapons that are used by the military are weapons that cannot be regulated. Of course in the years since Miller the military has short barrelled rifles, shotguns as well as silencers so the rationale behind upholding Miller is on flimsy ground. What is even perhaps more relevant is that by the time the case was brought to SCOTUS Miller had already died in prison. There was no one on the 'other side', the case was decided in a one sided decision. There is also a question of even basic standing by that point since the defendant who was claiming a 2A right wasn't even alive. But the court took the case anyways, took only testimony from one side and rendered the decision we have today. It's a perfect example of a decision resting on a flimsy legal argument.

 

[pastera]

I've read the actual SCOTUS decision in US vs Miller, in fact I have a book on the decision. Was what relevant in the upholding of Miller's trial of possession of a sawed off shotgun is that at the time SCOTUS analyzed the NFA and said that since the military does not use sawed off shotguns then they qualify as unusual weapons that can be regulated. So in Miller's terms weapons that are used by the military are weapons that cannot be regulated. Of course in the years since Miller the military has short barrelled rifles, shotguns as well as silencers so the rationale behind upholding Miller is on flimsy ground. What is even perhaps more relevant is that by the time the case was brought to SCOTUS Miller had already died in prison. There was no one on the 'other side', the case was decided in a one sided decision. There is also a question of even basic standing by that point since the defendant who was claiming a 2A right wasn't even alive. But the court took the case anyways, took only testimony from one side and rendered the decision we have today. It's a perfect example of a decision resting on a flimsy legal argument.

Fully agree
With Bruen the historical context of the 2nd is shown to encompass both military and non-military arms. Add to that context that the NFA simply taxed the possession because congress believed, on the record, that they could not completely ban the possession of covered items.
So the contemporary legal understanding of the 2A at the time was that NFA items could not be outright banned, the ban implemented in 1986 on new items entering into the registry fails scrutiny.
If congress then attempts to raise the stamp cost to prohibitive levels then equal justice comes into play.

 

[pdm]

Why don't we do the same thing that the left does and use "friendly suits" to push gun rights in the correct direction?

 

[pastera]

Why don't we do the same thing that the left does and use "friendly suits" to push gun rights in the correct direction?

How do you think we arrived where we are today?

 

[Roadglide]

Attleboro, Seekonk and Norton toeing the line. I thought Attleboro was more green than this...

Some Attleboro area police chiefs see little change on gun licenses, await state guidance

Some Attleboro area police chiefs say there are no immediate changes in how they issue gun licenses and that they are awaiting for state guidelines on the legal ramifications of

www.thesunchronicle.com

Jesus the stupidity. “I’m no legal expert but let me give you my legal opinion” says one chief. Do they even listen to themselves.

 

[LTCRN]

State cops in mass seem to think they are superior beings and they have rights commoners don’t. It’s so common it must be something they teach at the academy

By superior, do you mean being told that after you graduate from the MSP academy and become an official trooper, the rules of the road don't apply to you unless you get in an accident?
Or, as a spouse, girlfriend, boyfriend, you can expect to be a victim of domestic violence at some point during your relatives career. We want you come to report it to us first, we have an EAP (Employee Assistance Plan) in place, that can help you both get past this, we are here for you! This was told during orientation to the recruits and their families back in the early 2000's when Foley was at the top.