survival study: water

OK, coming back to this regarding water filters.

DO NOT think a Life Straw is OK for SHTF type survival. That's a one person get you out of the woods for a day solution, and only if the water is not too nasty. Expecting that to work for longer periods of time, for multiple people, or with nasty source water will get you in serious trouble. Nice little item for a quick fix, but not something you want for sustained water supply.

The typical backpacker filters from MSR, Katahdin, etc. are a step better but in my experience observing several fail on longer treks, they are good for a few days to a week for one or two people. Additionally you will want a back up filter based on what I have seen happen in the field. Don't fall for the overall rating and actually read the reviews on REI for MSR's best model. Still wanna bet your life on it? MSR makes fantastic backpacking stoves, but their water filtration offering needs attention.

The only units I would bet my life on for a bug out situation are the portable ones from General Ecology. First Need® Trav-L-Pure® w/Tote Bag . I backpack with the most portable one, the First Need XL. It's less than half the price of MSR's best, by the way. While 'guiding' (I let them lead themselves as much as is safe) a small scout group through the AT 100 mile Wilderness eventually all the other filters failed and the XL ended up filtering for 8 people by the end of the trek. I think I had to backwash it once that time- the local water was not terrible. Similar story out west on a 130 mile trek, but in that case the drought conditions left us with some pretty nasty water sources. Every single Katahdin, MSR, etc. eventually failed and left us with only the General Ecology unit. I had to backwash multiple times due to the very poor water quality, but that kept it going.

Boiling works too. It may not look OK and may smell and taste bad, but it won't kill you. If you are going to filter, don't mess around. Crypto was extremely uncommon in our formerly first world country, but in recent years there have been more and more outbreaks. I got a crypto infection from a numbnuts I should not have trusted to provide safe water in the field, and it's no party.
 
OK, coming back to this regarding water filters.

DO NOT think a Life Straw is OK for SHTF type survival. That's a one person get you out of the woods for a day solution, and only if the water is not too nasty. Expecting that to work for longer periods of time, for multiple people, or with nasty source water will get you in serious trouble. Nice little item for a quick fix, but not something you want for sustained water supply.

The typical backpacker filters from MSR, Katahdin, etc. are a step better but in my experience observing several fail on longer treks, they are good for a few days to a week for one or two people. Additionally you will want a back up filter based on what I have seen happen in the field. Don't fall for the overall rating and actually read the reviews on REI for MSR's best model. Still wanna bet your life on it? MSR makes fantastic backpacking stoves, but their water filtration offering needs attention.

The only units I would bet my life on for a bug out situation are the portable ones from General Ecology. First Need® Trav-L-Pure® w/Tote Bag . I backpack with the most portable one, the First Need XL. It's less than half the price of MSR's best, by the way. While 'guiding' (I let them lead themselves as much as is safe) a small scout group through the AT 100 mile Wilderness eventually all the other filters failed and the XL ended up filtering for 8 people by the end of the trek. I think I had to backwash it once that time- the local water was not terrible. Similar story out west on a 130 mile trek, but in that case the drought conditions left us with some pretty nasty water sources. Every single Katahdin, MSR, etc. eventually failed and left us with only the General Ecology unit. I had to backwash multiple times due to the very poor water quality, but that kept it going.

Boiling works too. It may not look OK and may smell and taste bad, but it won't kill you. If you are going to filter, don't mess around. Crypto was extremely uncommon in our formerly first world country, but in recent years there have been more and more outbreaks. I got a crypto infection from a numbnuts I should not have trusted to provide safe water in the field, and it's no party.
I know there are limitations to the sawyer, but i wonder (because you don't mention it) if you have specific experience with it to share?
 
+1 on the Sawyer Mini. But if you're getting one, note there are a few models. The dual-threaded lends itself best to a dual-bladder gravity filter setup. And for around $7 more you can get a faucet adapter included.
 
I know there are limitations to the sawyer, but i wonder (because you don't mention it) if you have specific experience with it to share?
Not specifically familiar with the Sawyer products but looks like their filters cover all the most micro of the bugs including crypto. I see some complaints about their bags used for the squeeze system. They can be backwashed but apparently use some sort of syringe and folks are warning that it can clog in so-so water (they all do) and that a proper backwash uses vinegar or something along the lines of that. IMHO good for a few days of hiking supporting one or two people but you'd want a back-up plan which could be boiling, easy-peasy. I don't think enough filter area nor ease of backwashing in the field for multi-week treks.

Clogging is inevitable if the water quality isn't very, very good. The cleaner it is, the more water volume you get before the filter becomes clogged. That's where the ability to backwash becomes important. If not obvious- purified and filtered water is necessary to backwash. Also- always, always test filtration systems before heading out into the field.

One can survive on off-tasting, off-smelling water as long as all the bugs have been wiped out. Boiling works, as does proper use of 'purification' tablets like Aquatabs. The tablets add a funny taste of their own and must be used carefully to ensure you are using the correct 'dose'. Actually, the most effective and lightweight back-up plan is to carry some Aquatabs or comparable product. Enough to 'purify' a few gallons of water weigh almost nothing and they have a shelf life of 5 years when packed in the strips. For bug-in folks like me, chlorine drops work. For bug-out or any necessary wilderness survival situation, Aquatabs are a must-have.

The nice thing about the better filters is you get as good as or better than bottled water quality. I've used mine even for travel in Asia and Central America so I can simply purify from the tap. At least from the General Ecology units, the 'off' smells are gone. UV systems are no better than boiling- they zap the bugs but don't remove contaminants nor improve taste nor smell. I think UV is cool, but NFW would I trust my survival on something that needs batteries when other manual systems are available.

Other feedback / opinions on field water purification may vary. I've formed my opinions partly from learning the hard way but also from observing many others learning the hard way.
 
Other feedback / opinions on field water purification may vary. I've formed my opinions partly from learning the hard way but also from observing many others learning the hard way.

Speaking of hard lessons -- a tip if you're around freezing temps. Use a filter once and some water stays inside, then freezing temps will expand it and break the fibers. Your 0.1-micron filter becomes a 100-micron filter. Keep your mini filter close to your body at all times when not using it.
 
Speaking of hard lessons -- a tip if you're around freezing temps. Use a filter once and some water stays inside, then freezing temps will expand it and break the fibers. Your 0.1-micron filter becomes a 100-micron filter. Keep your mini filter close to your body at all times when not using it.
Great tip and 100% correct.
 
OK, coming back to this regarding water filters.

DO NOT think a Life Straw is OK for SHTF type survival. That's a one person get you out of the woods for a day solution, and only if the water is not too nasty. Expecting that to work for longer periods of time, for multiple people, or with nasty source water will get you in serious trouble. Nice little item for a quick fix, but not something you want for sustained water supply.

The typical backpacker filters from MSR, Katahdin, etc. are a step better but in my experience observing several fail on longer treks, they are good for a few days to a week for one or two people. Additionally you will want a back up filter based on what I have seen happen in the field. Don't fall for the overall rating and actually read the reviews on REI for MSR's best model. Still wanna bet your life on it? MSR makes fantastic backpacking stoves, but their water filtration offering needs attention.

The only units I would bet my life on for a bug out situation are the portable ones from General Ecology. First Need® Trav-L-Pure® w/Tote Bag . I backpack with the most portable one, the First Need XL. It's less than half the price of MSR's best, by the way. While 'guiding' (I let them lead themselves as much as is safe) a small scout group through the AT 100 mile Wilderness eventually all the other filters failed and the XL ended up filtering for 8 people by the end of the trek. I think I had to backwash it once that time- the local water was not terrible. Similar story out west on a 130 mile trek, but in that case the drought conditions left us with some pretty nasty water sources. Every single Katahdin, MSR, etc. eventually failed and left us with only the General Ecology unit. I had to backwash multiple times due to the very poor water quality, but that kept it going.

Boiling works too. It may not look OK and may smell and taste bad, but it won't kill you. If you are going to filter, don't mess around. Crypto was extremely uncommon in our formerly first world country, but in recent years there have been more and more outbreaks. I got a crypto infection from a numbnuts I should not have trusted to provide safe water in the field, and it's no party.
No idea what the length of your experience is and I don't use either of those filters but my Sawyer Squeeze mini has lasted for years on multiple backpacking trips. I know many people who have thru hiked the AT using either the Sawyer Mini or one of the ones you mentioned with simple maintenance of the occasional back flush. Those who have filters fail quickly (less than a month of constant use) I would have to say are probably screwing something up for themselves.

I do agree with the knock about the Sawyer's "squeeze bag." I replaced mine with a softer squeeze bag. I have used a platypus bag for years.
 
No idea what the length of your experience is and I don't use either of those filters but my Sawyer Squeeze mini has lasted for years on multiple backpacking trips. I know many people who have thru hiked the AT using either the Sawyer Mini or one of the ones you mentioned with simple maintenance of the occasional back flush. Those who have filters fail quickly (less than a month of constant use) I would have to say are probably screwing something up for themselves.

I do agree with the knock about the Sawyer's "squeeze bag." I replaced mine with a softer squeeze bag. I have used a platypus bag for years.

Great to hear about the Sawyers. Possible that some of the problems I have witnessed with the others were self-inflicted. As mentioned, I don't have any direct experience or observation of the Sawyer products. I made a quick search of feedback, focusing on the feedback from those who are making longer treks and/or seem to have more experience. The Sawyers look simpler and more robust than others.

I will double down on the others not passing muster in extreme conditions. I was in the southern Rockies during severe drought when there were vast tracts of land without the usual running springs and streams. I had to source water from a low spot in a meadow (usually a running brook) via pre-filtering through two bandannas, a built in pre-filter strainer, and finally the General Ecology. Unfiltered was too murky for the UV to be safe, Aquatab treated tasted and smelled like elk turds, and the MSR's and Katahdins failed after only filtering one bottle each. Boiled or Aquatab would have been safe but nasty. Why do that when you can have DIY Voss water? [laugh]
 
Have you done a taste test on that water after sitting in those containers for some time? Curious if they impart a plastic taste...

All plastic leaches but the worst are the cheap plastics used in plastic water bottles, so we don't use those for water prepping for that reason. I have some 5 gallon jugs I just replace the water once a year. I think in New England you're probably fine with a good filter, there's plenty of lakes around. But I'd be more careful if I lived in Texas, Colorado or Arizona.
 
In addition to the usual culprits the XL Elite removes viruses but the Sawyer mini doesn’t. How much of an issue are the “viruses“ on a practical level.

I realize that there is a big difference in the price and I’m sure that is a big part of the reason and you want to remove everything you can but in real life what is the difference. Good, better, best? Sort trips vs long Trips? Part of the country.

Thanks,

Bob
 
All plastic leaches but the worst are the cheap plastics used in plastic water bottles, so we don't use those for water prepping for that reason. I have some 5 gallon jugs I just replace the water once a year. I think in New England you're probably fine with a good filter, there's plenty of lakes around. But I'd be more careful if I lived in Texas, Colorado or Arizona.
When I had my own gym/training studio we used to give bottled water to clients during workouts. The "backup cases" were stored at my home. I would frequently rotate them out, maybe every 2 months, so the water didn't get too stale.
 
Here is something to keep in mind. If your storing your water long term in a vessel, keep in mind that there is bacteria that’s in your tap water (it’s just low enough that it’s safe to consume) if left unchecked it will multiply in your bottle and become non potable over time.

Also plastic does in fact “breathe” if your storing your water next to your gas cans over time the gas permeates the bottle and absorbed by the water.
Your water should be stored in a stable temperature area, out of direct sunlight, away from other chemicals and rotated constantly.
So many people store their water in “jugs” and then let them sit for eternity. You should be using water from the jug and cleaning then refilling.
What the heck do YOU know about bottled water? [wink] [laugh]

To everyone else - he does know about this stuff!
 
Where is a Brita filter in all of this? I have a large Brita container I was going to get rid of because my new fridge has a dispenser. I may keep it to filter water just in case.
 
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Anyone have experience with collapsible water cubes? If I lose well water all the Berkeys, Sawyers, and bleach in the world ain’t gonna mean shit. I have a brook about a mile from me that I can get water from as long as I have a working vehicle.


B2D0A355-327E-4270-B8D4-501E78EC1ED5.jpeg
 
Anyone have experience with collapsible water cubes? If I lose well water all the Berkeys, Sawyers, and bleach in the world ain’t gonna mean shit. I have a brook about a mile from me that I can get water from as long as I have a working vehicle.


View attachment 463135
There are many different brands for this. I use them for car camping, remote cabins, etc. Good way to carry and temporarily store water. I also use some to store maple sap before I boil it down, which reminds me that you can tap maples and birches if you need a fresh supply of 'water' around this time of year and don't have a more convenient source.
 
There are many different brands for this. I use them for car camping, remote cabins, etc. Good way to carry and temporarily store water. I also use some to store maple sap before I boil it down, which reminds me that you can tap maples and birches if you need a fresh supply of 'water' around this time of year and don't have a more convenient source.

They produce more than you would think given good weather. My neighbor got 6 gallons from one tree in one day.

Bob
 
I've used those collapsible containers in the past. They work well... they do get a little cumbersome to travel long distances with just because they aren't super rigid. If you tossed it in a box or wagon or something, then it would be fine. I was more worried about the handle tearing the cube when fully loaded than anything thing else.
 
I've used those collapsible containers in the past. They work well... they do get a little cumbersome to travel long distances with just because they aren't super rigid. If you tossed it in a box or wagon or something, then it would be fine. I was more worried about the handle tearing the cube when fully loaded than anything thing else.
What size do you recommend? I’m thinking I want 5gl ones, but have 1gl versions handy in case I can’t carry 45 lbs of water
 

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r6zmIX8MA8

This is what I did with filters such as these.

Amazon product ASIN B00B9RGPDEView: https://www.amazon.com/Propur-ProOne-G2-0-7-Pair/dp/B00B9RGPDE/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2YA4HZB4VM281&dchild=1&keywords=propur+water+filter&qid=1613655368&sprefix=propu%2Caps%2C199&sr=8-2



-price on these is quite a bit more than what I had paid last year.

Ceramic similar to the nice hiking filters with activated carbon inside.
I used 7 gal food grade buckets instead of 5 gal.
Tasteless water is the result from filtering water from the tap.

It then goes into 5 gal stackables. Add a tap and the whole 5gals goes in the fridge. Rotate to the next stackable. Rinse/repeat.

Sediment filters are also easy to set up and might be a good pre-filter for dirty water before hitting the bucket.

Nice concept
 
Been on them about a year.
I used to use a 7 stage with RO/DI (town water pressure) but the rejection ration was 4:1 and didn't want to proceed that way.
Contaminent PPM = 2
hahaha

My tap water smells of chlorine and published town water test results show there's a bunch of crap in there I don't want.
I guess i could have my filtered water properly tested to see but, it smells and tastes of nothing but wet.

I fill for an over night filter (~7gals) and have 25gal in 5gal stackables and try to rotate and keep everything full.
I actually put the entire 5gal stackable in the fridge with a tap. -swap when empty.

In an off-grid situation, I'd boil and pre-filter with a t-shirt and bucket of sand before going into the homemade Berkey.
-which reminds me, i need to get some washed sand.
lol
 
If In MA:

Maintaining a saltwater aquarium puts me in possession of an RODI filter. It's output is water that is 0-1PPM of contaminants.

Always 2 sets of contaminant filters, 1 RO membrane and 1-2 packages of DI resin ahead. Actually have a filter ahead too that is just RO

On any given day, I have 2 brute 55 gallon trash barrels filled or filling. There's always at least 45, and usually about 90 gallons. It is rotated/replaced at no more than 2 weeks, because it is used for topoff to replace evaporation or tank water changes.

I have a superstore 50 gallon tank of water off the boiler that could be tapped if the town supply is not compromised.

There's a case of water in each vehicle and about 4-6 cases in the garage which get rotated into the cars.

I have over 18k gallons in an inground pool in the back yard. I have enough PVC pipe that the gutter downspouts on the back of the house could be repurposed to fill the pool if necessary

I have a case of granulated pool shock (rotated every Spring) which converts to bleach, and that converts to water purification.

I have 10 and 1 micron filters in quantity, a way to gravity filter with them, and then lifestraws in bugout bags, and a gravity filter.

If a boil was needed, I have an outdoors flat topped wood stove, or a camp sized rocket stove

If in NH:

There is a dug well behind the house.
The well pump as of 2020 has grid feed if needed, and is a covered critical load for the solar and battery backup.
I have a backup inverter for the solar. any 2 of the 6 batteries can provide enough watts to power the well.
If that doesn't work, it can be powered by a diesel generator that can use it's own tank, or draw off my Home Heating oil tank, or use the 50 gallons of shelf-stable off road diesel that I rotate annually.
If that doesn't work, I have a rope and bucket. Extra rope (3 lengths) . Extra buckets.

There is a stream that comes down from the ridge behind the house. This is all our land (to the ridge) so unlikely to be contaminated unless a Black Swan event.
It always runs at a minimum trickle, even in the driest of summers I can get 1-2GPM out of it. It has been diverted through a french drain behind the house and outputs to a 4" pipe you can hang a bucket off.

If the well and stream don't work, there is a 2 acre pond at the bottom of the property, about 1500 feet from the house. It is fed by a tributary of the Baker river, and I have buckets and a wagon to go down the hill to get it if the tractor (manual transmission and no electronics) doesn't run or the quads won't start.

There's 500 gallons of propane if I want to boil it, or the wood stove if I don't want to use propane, or another camp-sized rocket stove if I want to boil it outside.

There's also a backup gravity filter and the same pool shock bleach setup as in MA, just less of it, and it gets refreshed every Spring too. I have about 6 empty food grade buckets to deal with water up there if needed to wash, flush, etc
 
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What size do you recommend? I’m thinking I want 5gl ones, but have 1gl versions handy in case I can’t carry 45 lbs of water
Pro tip: One in each hand is easier to carry, up to a point. Eventually the sheer weight becomes a problem, but I'd rather carry 25# in each hand than 45# in one hand.

The 1 gallon ones would be useful if you wanted to bring water somewhere else, but for collection when you can reasonably expect to have a vehicle, I'd say get 5 gallon ones. Worst case just don't fill them all the way or throw them in a wagon/wheelbarrow/sled. Plus you could stock up now on 1 gallon jugs of water from the store and refill those as needed.
 
I keep an MSR Guardian pump in each house and in the car.

I wish I trusted the Berkey more, but the fact that they won't get certified and the number of people who found problems with the filtration on their original purchase keeps me a bit weary. I am not saying it is not a good product, but if I were going to trust my life to it, I would want to really test the one I got and I don't see spending the time to do that as it is not something I need everyday.

 
For backpacking/hiking I have a Katadyn filter I've been using for over 20 years. Change the filter once a year. Keep two filters on hand.

At to the TX issue specifically, it's not filtering water that was the issue. It's keeping it from freezing. Living in NH we heat primarily (90%+) with a woodstove. I can (and have) also cook directly on the woodstove. I also have 6 acres, 5 of which is forested and live close to lots of public land. I am in zero danger of my house being cold or without a way to boil water even if the world imploded.
 
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