target bill

Scrivener said:
The regulations have been published and will become effective one week later than I was previously told; July 27th.

Whether submissions can be made to GCAB directly at that point or not until GCAB develops a procedure has not been specified. The bottom line is that, about a year after we got the bill passed into law, it is now on the books.

Let's see which manufacturers actually avail themselves of it.
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Well, if GCAB or whoever it is makes this magical list, then what role do the
manufs have in "availing themselves of it"? Do they send GCAB a swan song
letter and a gussied up "hey this is a target gun" advertisement to try to
cajole them into putting it on the list? I'll believe it when I see it... I'm
not that optimistic about the guns that are going to get on this list...

-Mike
 
Scriv, is there any text online describing (in detail) the flaming hoops the
vendors will have to jump through to qualify for this exemption? Or is this
another massachusetts "black box job" like the AG's regs?

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
Scriv, is there any text online describing (in detail) the flaming hoops the
vendors will have to jump through to qualify for this exemption? Or is this
another massachusetts [sic]"black box job" like the AG's regs?
Click to expand...

The "AG's regs" are in the CMR with all the others - hardly "black box job" stuff, whatever that is. And if you're referring to the FBI's breaking into and pilfering citizens' groups, the term is "black BAG job."

Anyhow, here is what becomes effective in eight days:

7.12: Development of the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster

The Secretary shall develop and maintain, with the advice of the GCAB, a list of those weapons designated as formal target shooting firearms as provided by M.G.L. c. 140, § 123.

7.13: Criteria for Placement on the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster

The Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster shall contain firearms designated by the Secretary, with the advice of the GCAB, as solely designed and sold for formal target shooting competition. The GCAB shall make a recommendation as to whether a firearm should be placed on the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster using the following criteria:

(1) In order for a firearm to be considered for placement on the Formal Target Shooting Roster:

(a) the firearm manufacturer shall submit a report to the GCAB that certifies by affidavit that the firearm is solely designed and sold for formal target shooting competition; and

(b) the report shall identify specifications and features of the firearm which make it a formal target shooting competition firearm, including but not limited to the component requirements listed in 501 CMR 7.13(5) that are a standard part of that model firearm.

(2) The firearm manufacturer shall submit to the GCAB either a list of the specific types of formal target shooting competition for which the firearm was designed and sold, or documentation indicating that the firearm is recognized by a national organization as a firearm used in formal target shooting competition.

(3) Such manufacturer shall include any advertising or marketing materials sufficient to demonstrate that the firearm is solely sold for formal target shooting competition.

(4) The firearm, if it is a pistol, must have a barrel length of at least five (5) inches, and if it is a revolver, must have a barrel length of at least six (6) inches.

(5) The firearm must have match grade adjustable rear sights, or a match grade optical target sighting system.

(6) The firearm,

(a) if a pistol, must have four (4) or more of the following components, all produced at match grade:

(i) A target trigger
(ii) A custom or bull barrel
(iii) A ported barrel or compensator
(iv) A custom barrel bushing
(v) An adjusted, beveled or improved magazine well
(vi) An extended or custom slide release button
(vii) A target hammer
(viii) A custom feed ramp
(ix) A custom ejection port
(x) A custom extractor
(xi) Target grips
(xii) A trigger pull weight of less than four (4) pounds

(b) or, if a revolver, must have three (3) or more of the following components, all produced at match grade:

(i) A target trigger
(ii) A custom or bull barrel
(iii) A ported barrel or compensator
(iv) A target hammer
(v) Target grips

(7) After receiving a recommendation from the GCAB, the Secretary shall determine whether the firearm shall be placed on the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster.

(a) The Secretary shall notify, in writing, the manufacturer of a particular make and model of a firearm, whenever such make and model is approved for addition on the next published roster. This notice shall serve as certification that the particular make and model has been approved by the Secretary as being in compliance with M.G.L. c. 140, § 123.

(b) The Secretary shall also notify, in writing, the manufacturer of a particular make and model of a firearm, whenever such make and model is denied for addition on the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster.

7.14: Appeals for Inclusion on the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster

(1) Any person may petition the Secretary to place a firearm on or remove a firearm from the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster within ninety (90) days of the Secretary's original denial or approval for inclusion on the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster.

(2) Said petition shall include a written explanation citing the rationale for the inclusion or removal of a firearm with all documentation used to justify the request appended thereto.

(3) The Secretary shall not consider the inclusion of a firearm on the roster unless the petition includes clear and convincing evidence that the firearm meets all of the criteria required in 501 CMR 7.13.

(4) The Secretary shall, within 45 days of receipt of a petition, notify the petitioner by certified mail whether the petition is approved or denied. If the petition is approved, the Secretary shall include the make and model of the firearm on its list of Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster.

7.15: Form and Publication of the Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster

The Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster shall be published bi-annually and shall be available on the public website of the Criminal History Systems Board. It shall contain the following information:

(1) Title: Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster

(2) Effective month and year of the publication

(3) Notice that the roster replaces all prior published rosters as follows:

“This Roster Supersedes All Previous Rosters”

(4) Notice of criteria for placement on the roster as follows:

“This roster has been compiled in accordance with M.G.L. c.140, § 123 and 501 CMR 7.00. It contains firearms which are exempt from the testing requirements described in M.G.L. c. 140, § 123, clauses 18th, 19th, 20th and 21st, and which may be sold by Massachusetts licensees pursuant to M.G.L. c. 140, § 123 and 940 CMR 16.01(f). The makes and models listed herein were reviewed by the GCAB and subsequently designated by the Secretary of the Executive Office of Public Safety as being solely designed and sold for formal target shooting competitions.”

(5) Notice of publication method as follows:

“Modifications to this roster are likely to occur periodically, and Massachusetts licensees and law enforcement personnel should always utilize the most recent roster for the purpose of determining statutory compliance. The Formal Target Shooting Firearms Roster posted on the website of the Executive Office of Public Safety (www.mass.gov/EOPS) will contain the most recently approved models.”

7.16: Severability

If any article, section, subsection, sentence, clause or phrase of 501 CMR 7.00 et seq. is for any reason determined to be unconstitutional, contrary to statute, in excess of authority, or otherwise inoperative, such determination shall not affect the validity of any other article, section, subsection, sentence, clause or phrase of 501 CMR 7.00 et. seq.

REGULATORY AUTHORITY

501 CMR 7.00: M.G.L. c. 140, §§ 123 and 131¾
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Scrivener said:
The "AG's regs" are in the CMR with all the others - hardly "black box job" stuff, whatever that is. And if you're referring to the FBI's breaking into and pilfering citizens' groups, the term is "black BAG job."
Click to expand...

No, I was referring to the BS in the AG's regs like "a trigger unable to
be pulled by a child or requiring multiple motions" and other poorly worded,
poorly defined crap. I meant black box in terms of the text being there, but
it is difficult to know whether or not you're going to get hammered by the AG
beforehand because it seems the standards set forth in the regs are very
subjective. The AG's regs are literally a black box.... send out a letter
saying your gun is compliant and pray that the AG's office doesn't decide to
stop you from selling it. Maybe "black hole" is a better term,
considering that most inquires to the office went un-responded. (At least
this is the way it was under Reilly, not sure about Coakley.... ) I got the
distinct impression that Reilly was in the habit of "saying nothing" for the
purpose of being able to shut someone down later if he wanted. (numerous
FFLs I know sent certified mail to the AG's office and never got a response. )

Anyhow, here is what becomes effective in eight days:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update. It seems pretty clear what manufs must do to get
their guns on this new roster.

-Mike
 
#1: Applicants for target staus will be dealing with the EOPS/GCAB, nto the AG.

#2: The regs contain that magic work "shall" and even specify certified main. The AG regs do not establish a list, provide a mechanism for certification, or require the AG to provide clarification of a guns status prior to initiation of a legal action.

Also, the GCAB/EOPS has been responsive (not "45 day" responsive, but responsive none the less) to applications for inclusion on the lab testing list.
 
drgrant said:
The AG's regs are literally a black box.... send out a letter saying your gun is compliant and pray that the AG's office doesn't decide to stop you from selling it. Maybe "black hole" is a better term, considering that most inquires to the office went un-responded. (At least
this is the way it was under Reilly, not sure about Coakley.... ) I got the distinct impression that Reilly was in the habit of "saying nothing" for the
purpose of being able to shut someone down later if he wanted. (numerous FFLs I know sent certified mail to the AG's office and never got a response.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what the AG's office was like under Reilly. However, the AG's office is, as Rob noted, now irrelevant as regards handgun certification under these regulations. Indeed, the whole point was to eliminate the AG from intermeddling in this area and provide a clear, objective and practical means of establishing a list of handguns so exempted.
 
(i) A target trigger
(ii) A custom or bull barrel
(iii) A ported barrel or compensator
(vi) An extended or custom slide release button
(vii) A target hammer
(xi) Target grips
Click to expand...

I wonder if the Browning Buckmarks will suddenly become available with the above features. Not just a good target gun, but a good hunting gun as well.
 
Coyote33 said:
I wonder if the Browning Buckmarks will suddenly become available with the above features. Not just a good target gun, but a good hunting gun as well.
Click to expand...

If it's ever been advertised or touted as such, it's highly unlikely that it will be approved by the EOPS/GCAB.

Personally... while I'm far from doing cartwheels over this bill, at least it's something, even if very few shooters will benefit from it.
 
I didn't see anything in the posted regulations regarding advertisements making the rules no longer applicable. Could you please show us? Thanks.
 
Coyote33 said:
I didn't see anything in the posted regulations regarding advertisements making the rules no longer applicable. Could you please show us? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Additionally, the drivel about 3 years' worth of advertising being required to document the "formal target shooting competition" purpose of the firearm is also a requirement.
Click to expand...

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=280822&postcount=117

(3) Such manufacturer shall include any advertising or marketing materials sufficient to demonstrate that the firearm is solely sold for formal target shooting competition.
Click to expand...

http://northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=284565&postcount=125

If this is the case... I have little doubt that the GCAB/EOPS will use it to our disadvantage. [thinking]
 
(4) The firearm, if it is a pistol, must have a barrel length of at least five (5) inches, and if it is a revolver, must have a barrel length of at least six (6) inches.
Click to expand...

So the Walther GSP, arguably the most popular high-end Bullseye competition pistol ever manufactured, would not qualify because it has a 4" barrel? Maybe they'll start shipping a version with a 5" barrel, which not might be such a bad idea.
 
So, even if it is sold as a target gun does not keep someone from using it as a hunting gun, or modifying it to suit such purposes.
 
Coyote33 said:
So, even if it is sold as a target gun does not keep someone from using it as a hunting gun, or modifying it to suit such purposes.
Click to expand...

I'm not disputing that. You (or anyone else), could use it any manner they wish despite what any manufacturers intent or advertising is.

But, that's not the intent or in the spirit of the "Target Bill".

If Browning has ever sold/marketed/advertised the Buckmark for any other purposes other than "formal target competition", then it would not be exempt and would still be subject to the EOPS and AGs guidelines.

I should probably make a correction/addition to my earlier post...

Scrivener noted that "Additionally, the drivel about 3 years' worth of advertising being required to document the "formal target shooting competition" purpose of the firearm is also a requirement".

I didn't notice in the language of the bill anything about "3 years' worth of advertising". Perhaps that was in an earlier version of the bill?

The way it's worded now, there's nothing from preventing the board from using any advertising as proof or disproof of intended use no matter how old or outdated it is.
 
So, does this make the Ruger MkIII Target model NOT a target model since there are other MkIII's for other purposes? Or do models within models strike an exception?
 
I don't know Ron Glidden personally, but he seems to be a straight shooter who will apply the standards in the bill exactly as written, without using an agenda to legislate from the GCAB conference room. If only our courts and judges has as much integrity.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
I don't know Ron Glidden personally, but he seems to be a straight shooter who will apply the standards in the bill exactly as written, without using an agenda to legislate from the GCAB conference room. If only our courts and judges has as much integrity.
Click to expand...

I do know him personally and your assessment is correct.

He sees these things as "black and white". If ANY ads (anywhere in the world) stated that the gun was marketed for other than target shooting, it will not comply with the Regs and thus GCAB will not accept it.

Any gun CAN be used for any purpose, so the list will be determined by how carried away the company marketing guys got in their advertising.
 
(3) Such manufacturer shall include any advertising or marketing materials sufficient to demonstrate that the firearm is solely sold for formal target shooting competition.
Click to expand...

It is a very simple analysis. If ANY of the manufacturer's advertising for the model submitted promotes that model's use for hunting, plinking, defense or anything other than target shooting - it fails. Period.

Ask Ruger.
 
Scrivener said:
It is a very simple analysis. If ANY of the manufacturer's advertising for the model submitted promotes that model's use for hunting, plinking, defense or anything other than target shooting - it fails. Period.

Ask Ruger.
Click to expand...

Well.... looks like they can come up with some new part numbers for us. [wink]
 
EZEKIEL 25:17 said:
So.....any guesses as to when the first list will be out?
Click to expand...

I would be surprised to see anything before Thanksgiving.

FIRST, you need a manufacturer to actually submit an application to be on the new list.

Then, GCAB has to formalize its procedure for processing such applications, then hold the hearing(s) and, finally, submit the guns for inclusion on the list.

Publishing the list then becomes EOPS' responsibility.

Note that this is basically the same procedure as we already have for the AFR, yet there are people out there who expected a "list" to magically appear on July 27th, like Venus arising from the ocean; complete, fully-formed and on the half-shell.

The clueless, like the poor, shall always be with us.........
 
Thanks for the updates, Keith. It is appreciated (along with the lesson on how to curse someone out without a single profane word... [wink])
 
Scrivener said:
yet there are people out there who expected a "list" to magically appear on July 27th, like Venus arising from the ocean; complete, fully-formed and on the half-shell.
Click to expand...

Scriv, for the record, Venus was originally a vegetation goddess and patroness of gardens and vineyards. It was only later when she was given most of the characteristics and history of Aphrodite that she was said to have been born of the ocean.

Oh, and mythology only held that she was "born from the sea." The half-shell was artistic license by Botticelli.
 
Then, GCAB has to formalize its procedure for processing such applications, then hold the hearing(s) and, finally, submit the guns for inclusion on the list.
Click to expand...
The list of the regulations I read established a 45 day deadline from date of submission for a decision. Did this remain intact and, if so, do you think it will be followed, ignored, or creatively interpreted as starting the date the GCAB forwards its recommendation to the EOPS rather than the application date?
 
Mr Weebles said:
Scriv, for the record, Venus was originally a vegetation goddess and patroness of gardens and vineyards.
Click to expand...

Sounds more like Persephone...

Oh, and mythology only held that she was "born from the sea." The half-shell was artistic license by Botticelli.
Click to expand...

I thought Zeus created her. The shell was merely the Goddess Delivery System. [wink]
 
REMINDER:

Losing $50.00 to a worthy cause and in the process making a small step forward to actually improving MA gun laws is a desirable outcome...
Click to expand...

The first Target Roster, containing two guns, was posted in November; another gun from another manufacturer is do imminently.

So, LogInName, you paid GOAL the promised $50 yet? Inquiring minds want to know.
 

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