Teasing myself, how much for an M1A? (Thoughts on other .308s)

[crazymjb]

Hey all, this is more of an idea for next year (I'm going on an extended vacation in a few weeks paid for by your hard earned tax dollars), but after seeing some pretty slick pictures of SAGE EBRs, I've decided I really really really really really want one. At first I was thinking of trying to track down an RFB for my first .308, but this thing not only looks too cool, its a pretty well proven platform.

My original plan was when I got back to build an SBR for my fiance as she thinks my AR is too heavy, which it is for her I guess, but I am thinking it may be less of a hassle to lighten up the AR (swap the Eotech 512 for a micro dot, get rid of the tacticool grip pod, put a smaller light on it) and take some of what I have on that and put it on the M1A.

Since I am going to be ditching the stock the cheapest M1A I can find would be best, I guess that would be the scout model. They have one at the shop down the street but it is 1600... that's too much. I have no qualms about buying used if its in good condition, but before I'd consider this project I'd need to get the price to a reasonable amount, especially considering the ridiculous price of that stock, which I will also buy used if I can find it.

Also, if I can get any info on building an M1A that would be great too, especially if I can find some old milsurp pre-ban receiver. I'll have plenty of time on my hands, and I built my AR, and am pretty mechanical so if it's a reasonable option I would definitely consider that as well. I thought about the RFB, but since this will be replacing my AR as my SHTF/EOTWAWKI/WROL for the time being, the service record of the M1A is impressive, that and I like the feeling of firing bigger cartridges than the 5.56, my M1 is my favorite gun to shoot by far.

Sorry but this thing is just too sexy to pass up

Thanks all,

Mike

 

[M1911]

Do you look like George on Top Shot? If so, then you are strong enough to shoot the monster in your picture offhand. If not, then skip the EBR chassis for the M1A. As pictured, I'd bet that beast is well over 15 lbs, and most of the weight is in front of the pistol grip.

I can't tell you how much my M1A loaded would go for today -- I've had it for more than 10 years and prices have gone up.

 

[bpm990d]

All I can think of is that thread about the Russian complaining about what people have done to perfectly good rifles.

B

 

[M1911]

All I can think of is that thread about the Russian complaining about what people have done to perfectly good rifles.

B

Yup. If you want a pistol gripped, collapsible stock EBR, skip the M1A. If you want a traditional battle rifle, than an M1A is a fine choice.

 

[crazymjb]

It weighs 11 pounds, which is far from impossible to shoulder. I think my AR comes in at 8.5 so it's not THAT far off, it does seem front heavy though... I don't look like George but I'm not a little guy either,

In terms or ruining a perfectly good gun... I wouldn't call it ruined. They make a stock like this for the Garand, THAT is ruining a perfectly good gun.

Any recommendations from personal experience on any other .308 "modern" battle rifles (FAL, RFB, etc)? Have any of you guys used the M1A in this setup extensively? Not picking at the issue, just curious.

Mike

 

[M1911]

It weighs 11 pounds, which is far from impossible to shoulder.

With that scope, vertical front grip, bipod, and chassis? NFW it weighs 11 lbs. A basic M1A straight out of the box weighs about 8.7 lbs unloaded (11 lbs loaded). That chassis weighs a lot more than an M1A butt stock. That scope and rings adds 1.5 to 2 lbs.

See: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/123107-.308-AR?p=1775955&viewfull=1#post1775955

 

[Kid Presentable]

They make a stock like this for the Garand, THAT is ruining a perfectly good gun.

didn't believe it till i google'd it...wow.

 

[bpm990d]

To me, it reminds me of a modern day M1C or M1D. It's not really going to do what you want it to do all that well. What is with the VFG? Is it a door kickers gun or a precision rifle? The cheek piece gives me shivers because it looks like it could get hooked on something like web gear as you bring it up to mount the stock on your shoulder.

B

 

[crazymjb]

I should add I'd be throwing an eotech with magnifier on it. I don't want it as a long range tack driver, rather a .308 battle rifle that can reach out if need be. That isn't the IDENTICAL setup I want, I was just showcasing the chassis and the gun. I should have mentioned that.

Mike

 

[M1911]

Then get an M1A in its standard configuration (or scout length if you prefer), get a Sadlak scope mount, and then a Trijicon 1-4 illuminated scope and call it done.

 

[Smash05]

Someone ruined that rifle.

 

[crazymjb]

So whats everyone's huge objection to having a pistol grip stock on an M1A? It's good enough for the SEALs, I'll take that with a grain of salt but people seem to like that platform.

Mike

 

[Dnotarianni]

So whats everyone's huge objection to having a pistol grip stock on an M1A?

Mike

Two words Mall Ninja

 

[shootback]

I don't know if he still has it but, A few weeks ago Tombstone has an M1A Scout for @ $1300.
Tombstone Trading Co
1 Post Road, MA 01506-0365

(508) 867-6800   (508) 867-3981 (Fax)

 

[M1911]

So whats everyone's huge objection to having a pistol grip stock on an M1A? It's good enough for the SEALs, I'll take that with a grain of salt but people seem to like that platform.

I've already told you: it's heavy and badly balanced. The M1A wasn't designed for a pistol grip or to be easily scoped, and the chassis system isn't a terribly good solution. As TheFaz posted previously in the thread that I pointed you towards:

Having carried an EBR around Afghanistan recently, I will echo the comments of M1911 about the M1A in EBR form being too heavy, still too long with the stock collapsed, poorly balanced, and impossible to clean properly without disassembly. A stopgap solution but one that needs work. The M110 is a better system all around. I have had an M1A or M14 for 25 years, but the design is not conducive to what people are trying to do with it. If you want a pistol grip, collapsible stock, rails, etc., get an AR-10.

If you want an EBR in .308 with a scope, pistol grip, and collapsible stock, then get one of the AR10 platforms. If you want an M1A, keep it in a form that is closer to how it was designed.

 

[whatluck]

If you want a rifle that looks cool, then by all means spend the $2500 to build that thing.

If you want a good .308 tack driver, than a rem 700 308 is way better suited to that purpose.

 

[crazymjb]

I thought about investing in a savage model 10 when I got back, but I honestly see myself using a "battle rifle profile" gun more often, if we had a bunch of 600+ yard ranges around here I would feel differently. Maybe I should look more into the AR-10 platform, but the reported problems have scared me quite a bit. As far as the mall-ninja comment goes, so is everyone else with an evil black rifle for "SHTF" purposes. The way the price point looks on the M1A I'll look towards other setups, and I'll definitely look into the complaints a bit more.

As I said, I like the idea of the RFB but the questionable reliability has me a little worried.

Thanks all, and keep any input coming.

Mike

 

[M1911]

What's wrong with an M1A with Sadlak scope mount and 1-4 illuminated Trijicon scope? It will do everything an M1A in a chassis with red dot and magnifier will do. It doesn't have a pistol grip and it weighs less.

A lot of the three-gun guns are using the TR24 Accupoint scope: http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3.php?pid=TR24-3

 

[crazymjb]

I'll definitely look into that when I get back. As I said, I like the pistol grip platform, I am very familiar with it and feel like I personally can shoot, transition, and acquire targets with it faster. This is not to say I can't learn new skills, BUT I like having a degree of consistency between platforms.

Mike

 

[PaulD]

If you want to build that (and retain the telescoping stock and flash hider), you'll need a pre-ban receiver and the Polytechs are going to be the cheapest.

 

[Fsorrent]

TACTI - COOL.... not PRACTI-COOL.

 

[M1911]

I'll definitely look into that when I get back. As I said, I like the pistol grip platform, I am very familiar with it and feel like I personally can shoot, transition, and acquire targets with it faster. This is not to say I can't learn new skills, BUT I like having a degree of consistency between platforms.

Mike

I have both and find the difference to be a nonissue. YMMV.

As for our soldiers, I can understand their need for a collapsible stock, but that seems a lot less important for the average Joe - most of us don't have a body armor.

 

[crazymjb]

Thanks for telling me what does and doesn't work for me personally. I want something I am comfortable with using. I run a pistol grip on my shotgun and obviously on my AR. I want the same platform for a 308 battle rifle. I am not opposed completely to trying something new (a la bull-pup), but at the very least the pistol grip is what I want to retain for a gun I plan on mainly using in a similar fashion to how I use my AR... which isn't bench rest shooting.

As I said, I love my M1, I feel much more comfortable with the pistol grip setup. If I get a chance I will certainly try out an M1A.

Mike

 

[meth0d]

I think I was quoted around must have been $1400 to $1600 at M&M's for a Standard model.

 

[M1911]

Thanks for telling me what does and doesn't work for me personally.

Come on. I didn't say that. I worded my response very carefully:

I have both and find the difference to be a nonissue. YMMV.

I want something I am comfortable with using. I run a pistol grip on my shotgun and obviously on my AR. I want the same platform for a 308 battle rifle. I am not opposed completely to trying something new (a la bull-pup), but at the very least the pistol grip is what I want to retain for a gun I plan on mainly using in a similar fashion to how I use my AR... which isn't bench rest shooting.

So straight stocks are only useful for bench rest shooting? Whatever.

As I said, I love my M1, I feel much more comfortable with the pistol grip setup. If I get a chance I will certainly try out an M1A.

My M1A feels much like my M1 Garand. It's a bit more lively due to a bit less weight out at the end of the barrel. But the M1A is still a big, heavy, long rifle, and is cumbersome for CQB. I suspect that the Scout will handle similarly, even though it is a bit shorter.

That said, I find the same to be true of my 20" AR-10 -- it is a big, heavy, long rifle that is cumbersome for CQB.

The ergonomics of the M1A -- safety in the trigger guard, operating rod on the right, magazine change requiring rotation of the mag, etc. -- as you know are significantly different than the AR-15. If commonality of platform is of utmost importance to you, then again I suggest you research the AR-10 platforms. Even with a pistol grip on an M1A, the ergonomics and training differ quite a bit from the AR-15. Personally, I'd say that the grip type is the least important of these differences, but I guess we disagree on that.

 

[drgrant]

The weight/chassis/pistol grip thing is a matter of taste. I know personally I wouldn't want to be chugging around a rifle that weighs MORE than an M1 Garand does. If I was just building it to shoot it off a bench, or prone, then it wouldn't matter much, but it sounds like you actually want to move with the thing.

Also beware the cost of .308. The price on even milsurp is effectively full retard. It's only going to get worse, too, as less and less milsurp comes in because of the stupid UN antis trying to get countries to stop exporting milsurp. If you are that set on getting a .308 semiautomatic rifle, and intend on actually using it a lot, I would lay in some ammo even before getting the gun. The gun isn't going to increase that much in price, the ammo certainly will. Won't be so bad if you want to reload for it in bulk, but otherwise, really expensive. I guess it depends on where your priorities lie. This would have been a non consideration if we were still in the era of getting a battlepack of SA milsurp .308 for $22 a pack, but those days are long gone and they're likely never coming back. If you weren't reloading and you ever wanted to take a serious "tactical" type rifle course with that thing, you'd have to sell a kidney to the chinese just to afford the ammo.

On the other hand if you really want it that badly, then just go buy it and ignore everyone here. You know you're probably going to do that anyways, so just do it and give us a range report already.

-Mike

 

[skimonster]

Just held an M1A at 4 Seasons($1500), its heavy, but u get what u pay for. A beautiful battle rifle!! The weight was pretty well balanced and just the feel and look of it, I almost got it. Instead I got my M1 Garand today an life is good. Buy what ever u want, its what u think of it.

 

[M1911]

Buy what ever u want, its what u think of it.

And that's the bottom line.

 

[Hikes]

FAL?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[M1911]

FAL?

Good suggestion.

I've got one. Easier to scope than an M1A, but still not great. Once you put on the scope mount/dust cover, that impairs your ability to clean the rifle because either you can't easily reach the chamber or you take off the scope mount/dust cover, thus messing up your zero.

IMHO, FAL sights completely suck. Trigger sucks as well. The M1A in its classic for feels better balanced to me than a FAL in similar form. FAL mags are cheap and available last I looked. M14 mags are pricey.

In its basic form, I'd take an M1A over a FAL in a heartbeat. If I was looking for a shorty .308 EBR with collapsible stock and pistol grip, I think I might take a FAL over an M1A.

HK-91 is another alternative, but I have very little experience with one. I think scoping an HK-91 is an issue. I do have a bunch of HK-91 mags, but they still await a matching rifle. Megabucks here I come...