Teasing myself, how much for an M1A? (Thoughts on other .308s)

M1911 said:
As for our soldiers, I can understand their need for a collapsible stock, but that seems a lot less important for the average Joe - most of us don't have a body armor.
Click to expand...

And yet, "most" is not "all".



IME, the M1A/M14 is a f--king heavy-ass rifle to begin with. Then again, last time I picked one up was my junior year of college, and I wasn't in very good shape then.

If you like everything about the rifle except the weight, hit the gym.


Personally, if I were going to built a .308 semi, it'd probably be an 18" M1A in either the Sage or Troy chassis.
 
Some things to think about.
That SAGE rifle stock in the picture is going to add some serious weight.
And it's cost is around $700 (that's with the military discount).
Hell, the TROY Industries stock will run you about $600.
It also will add weight.
Why not just buy a $250 SADLAK scope mount and some good optics for the M1A.

I've had three M1A's in the past, but I've still got my M1 Thumb.
The old school M1 in 30-06 is more of a classic rifle anyway.
The M-14 was the service rifle for only like what only like 15 years?
The military has now moved on (think S.A.S.S. AR-10 type rifle).
Want to see a cool modern battle rifle look at the LMT .308 Gas Piston the Britts just bought up & added .308 ACOG's to.

smitty
 
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FWIW...

The cost of an M1A loaded plus a Sage stock is going to be somewhere around $2400. For not a lot more money, I'd much prefer an LRB M14 with the M25 forged receiver (that receiver has a much better scope mounting method).

http://www.lrbarms.com/m14receivers.html

If I wanted a .308 EBR with lots of rail space, I'd probably get something like a Larue OBR, LMT or similar.
 
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Well I hope I am not to late to the party. I actually have a Sage EBR'd M14. Here is a little back story.

I shopped around looking for a rifle to build, and found an older Armscorp that was in need of some work. Next, I knew I wanted an 18ish inch barrel, so I ordered a Criterion medium weight barrel and a vortex for the end of it. I sat on those parts for a while until I found the NSG (Navy Seal Grey) Sage chassis I wanted. Had a smith re barrel the receiver and then I placed it all in the Sage. I topped it with a LaRue LT608 (not on their website, but they make it specifically for the Sage) and a set of LaRue rings holding a SS 10X.

My thoughts on the gun...I need to do some friggen push ups, this thing is retardedly heavy. It is short, about as long as my M4gery, I am going to put a bi-pod on it, because that is about all it is good for, I am not an operator of any kind. It is super accurate with Fed Match 168's, more then I can notice anyways.

Was it worth it? I think so, because I wanted one. In hindsight, I could have picked up an OBR for the money I have into it and be done. [thinking]
 
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edmorseiii said:
My thoughts on the gun...I need to do some friggen push ups, this thing is retardedly heavy.
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Yup, that's my point.

crazymjb, why don't you see if you can convince edmorseiii to join you at a range and play with his M1A? No better way to find out if that is what you want.
 
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M1911, I wasn't talking to you with the "thanks for telling me what does and doesn't work" comment (it was directed at the tacticool not practicool comment. IMO, I can manage a little extra weight if I am much more comfortable with use of the rifle, which would make that practical for me), and I am taking everything you say into account. Again, I am teasing myself with this idea, this isn't happening for at least another year, and I honestly haven't done as much research as I would want to before spending that kind of money. From what it looks like this setup would cost as much as a SCAR 17s, so I don't think I could bring myself to do it. If what I am looking for is a .308 battle rifle. I really would like to try out an M1A, but if it handles like my Garand it probably isn't what I am looking for. I guess I just didn't realize it was as heavy as you guys are all saying it is.

I know it's kinda hard to tell tone on the internet, I'm not intending to e-come off as rude or dismissive of what you're saying, more thinking out loud. Again, I am appreciative of the input.

ETA: Edmorseiii, my fiances father lives in on the water in Onset Bay and we visit him relatively frequently. This summer I will be tied up but I wouldn't mind tagging along to the range with you when I get back next year. If it really is stupid heavy for a battle rifle I guess it's not what I am looking for at the moment.

Thanks,

Mike
 
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crazymjb said:
ETA: Edmorseiii, my fiances father lives in on the water in Onset Bay and we visit him relatively frequently. This summer I will be tied up but I wouldn't mind tagging along to the range with you when I get back next year. If it really is stupid heavy for a battle rifle I guess it's not what I am looking for at the moment.

Thanks,

Mike
Click to expand...

Absolutely. I am a member at Sippican in Rochester, it's about 20 minutes away from Wareham/Onset, shoot me a message when you think you will be in the area.
 
I've got a standard M1A "loaded." I'm a member of the Wayland Rod & Gun Club. If you get out this way, I'll be glad to let you put a few rounds through it.
 
crazymjb said:
Since I am going to be ditching the stock the cheapest M1A I can find would be best, I guess that would be the scout model. They have one at the shop down the street but it is 1600... that's too much. I have no qualms about buying used if its in good condition, but before I'd consider this project I'd need to get the price to a reasonable amount, especially considering the ridiculous price of that stock, which I will also buy used if I can find it.

Also, if I can get any info on building an M1A that would be great too, especially if I can find some old milsurp pre-ban receiver. I'll have plenty of time on my hands, and I built my AR, and am pretty mechanical so if it's a reasonable option I would definitely consider that as well. I thought about the RFB, but since this will be replacing my AR as my SHTF/EOTWAWKI/WROL for the time being, the service record of the M1A is impressive, that and I like the feeling of firing bigger cartridges than the 5.56, my M1 is my favorite gun to shoot by far.

Thanks all,

Mike
Click to expand...

A few thoughts, and I'll take them in backwards order:
Building your own isn't really an option like it is with an AR because of the specialty tools you will need and know how. Putting together an M14 is real gunsmithing. Building an AR is like an putting in a new vanity sink.

There will be no such thing as a milsurp M14 receiver. They are regarded as machine guns and won't be available to civilians, ever. It's commercial, or nothing at all.

I haven't seen a used M14-type in a while but I would expect to see them for between $1200 and $1600 (for a plain-Jane M1A). A Norinco or Polytech is a good option to build on if you can buy it right.


This next part is all strictly opinion:
This is the only acceptable M14 configuration:
M14.jpg



Also, AR's are a 5.56 rifle. Making them in .308 turns a great rifle into an so-so rifle. Pistol grips are perfect on AR's, not M14's.
Before buying a scope set-up for the M14, shoot it with iron sights; you might be surprised how well they work.


All opinion aside, buy whatever the hell you want. Life's too short and you only live once.
 
Thanks. I love the irons on the M1, I have no inherent problem with iron sights in general, so that would definitely be considered if I ever end up with an M1A. I guess what I am going for is I want a modern tacticool but usable .308 battle rifle. Unlike some people on this board I'm not expecting to ever need it, but at the same time I would want this to be a gun I could trust/love. I guess I just made the wrong assumption that the M1A EBR was an acceptable filler for that niche. Believe me, I love and respect military rifles for what they are and their history, my M1 is probably my favorite gun. But that isn't what I am going for with this idea.

I still would love to take you guys up on the offer to try out your respective M1As at some point next year, so I'll be sure to revive this thread when I get back.

I am going to look into the AR10 more because it seems to be a potentially good option depending on whether or not they have worked the kinks out. My understanding is that that was Stoners "original" design until they decided to go with the 5.56 model, but I know some have reported various problems with them, while some claim their AR-10s run as reliably as their AR-15s. I guess I'll have to do more research. Maybe when I get back their will be some used scars in the 1500 dollar range... probably not likely though huh.

Mike
 
No problem. Get back to me next year and we can go to the range. You bring the factory or good surplus 7.62 NATO ammo. I'll bring my M1A, FAL, and Armalite AR-10.
 
Actually if you look into the history of the Original Stoner/Armalite AR10 - it has a decent combat record. It was used by Portuguese Special Forces in Africa, survived Jungle and Bush operations, etc. The issue may be that some of the modern incarnations are up builds of the AR15 design than they are true to the original. All that being said there are plenty of pistol grip designed .308's out there, and you could also do a 922r conversion on a Saiga 308 - I could see that being quite the reliable firearm. Are their 308 Galil models available in the U.S.?
 
Gospel according to John Garand

1 In the beginning was the M1, and the M1 was THE Riflel, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the M1, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain."

2 "And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."

3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the M1. The tribe of the gamesman and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the M1 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the M1 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5 And lo, they didst install optical sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle. a

6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth rifles made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic rifle and did buy vast quantities of them.

8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic rifles unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these rifles did appear to function.

9 And the evil one also brought forth rifles which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10 But man being stupid did not understand these new rifles and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic rifle for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new rifles blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic rifle, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic rifles delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned M1 Garand to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.
 
M1911 said:
No problem. Get back to me next year and we can go to the range. You bring the factory or good surplus 7.62 NATO ammo. I'll bring my M1A, FAL, and Armalite AR-10.
Click to expand...

Hmm, sounds like a mini NES 7.62N shoot. I'd be happy to bring my M1A and a battle pack or two of ammo.
 
Old and new:
DSCN1575.jpg


Do you have an objection to steel cased stuff going through your .308s? I've had great luck with it in my AR so I figured I'd probably use the same stuff for whatever .308 I end up getting, and may as well make sure it works in various platforms.

Mike
 
Yeah that would be well outside my budget. Would be nice though. I've been reading good things about Armalite's product. I just wish it was like the rest of the AR market so I could build it myself.

Mike
 
crazymjb said:
Been doing a little research, and instead of starting a new thread, what are everyone's thoughts on AR-10s?

Mike
Click to expand...

AR10s aren't as standardized. Other people here know more than I do about them but there's at least 3 different mag types and matching lower types. If I were buying one, I'd heavily research this part because that will dictate whether pre-ban mags are readily available.

I don't know if there are any variations in the lower to upper mating.
 
There are a couple more features but not worthy of almost 3X the price, IMO. I was looking at AR10s since they can take the M4 mags, and Armalite has a good reputation, uses chrome lined barrels, forged receivers, and decent prices.

Mike
 

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