To pre-ban or not to pre-ban...

smeds

smeds

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Hey folks,

I've got orders to Ft. Sill, OK for January of next year, but I'm being bitten by the AR bug now. I'm after a pretty plain jane (but quality) A2/A4 build, was thinking of a BCM 20" upper. In any case, since I won't be in MA much longer, I'm wondering if it would make more sense to just buy a pre-ban lower, have fun with it for a while, then sell it when I'm on my way out and get whatever fits my fancy in a free state from there. Alternately, a Stag Model 4 in post-ban configuration doesn't look too bad, I just like the BCM more and would hate to go chopping it up to make it compliant. Finally, I suppose I could just shoot my mausers/mosins/enfields/ohmy and be happy. Thoughts?
 
It's easy to replace the stock to an adjustable one. If the post-ban is a crown barrel, you can get it threaded. If it's blind pinned, you can get it cut off and put a flash hider.

Not sure about bayonet lug retrofits, but that's probably not your priority.
 
I'd be going with a fixed A2 stock, so the real points of issue for me are just the bayonet lug and flash hider. I've found a couple A2 look alike muzzle brakes that would work, but how much of a hassle/expense is it to cut off the existing flash hider and fit the ban-happy version? I'm not planning any bayonet charges up San Juan Hill, but the stupidity of the law and chopping off a perfectly good part of the rifle for no sensible reason just irks me. I started thinking about just getting a preban since it'll always be in demand as long as the MA AWB is around (not going anywhere...), and I'm not planning on abusing the rifle so I should be able to pretty well recoup my investment at the end.
 
Preban is a dramatic waste of money, if you ask me. You're paying 2x for a 20+ year old receiver just so you can put a telescoping stock on it? Save your money and buy a recently manufactured rifle, and when you move you add any "banned" accessories that you like.
 
Oh hell, I just saw your 2nd post - that's even worse! You want to pay $500-$1000 extra for a 20 year old piece of crap because you like the aesthetics of a birdcage flash suppressor and bayonet lug?

You'll get much better selection, more options, and much better quality (for half the price) buying a new MA compliant rifle. Save the cash or spend it on optics and ammo.
 
You should probably get a lower with the stock you want and a postban upper. Sell that when you leave, and order what you want off the internet and ship it to Okieland.
 
TonyDedo said:
Oh hell, I just saw your 2nd post - that's even worse! You want to pay $500-$1000 extra for a 20 year old piece of crap because you like the aesthetics of a birdcage flash suppressor and bayonet lug?

You'll get much better selection, more options, and much better quality (for half the price) buying a new MA compliant rifle. Save the cash or spend it on optics and ammo.
Click to expand...

Hm, after looking into it a bit more you've convinced me. I hadn't realized exactly how easy it would be to change things back once I have the opportunity. This is my first foray into the commercial AR world... I'm not an armorer so on the service side of things I listen to them and don't take anything apart that I don't have to. Looks like a little bit of elbow grease but I don't mind that as long as I can go back, which from the looks of things I can. Much appreciated for the advice.
 
Yes, you can order that upper and have it made MA compliant - consult your local reputable gunsmith and they'll take care of you.

There is some gray area as to whether or not you can (or should) possess a non compliant upper without a preban lower, and conventional wisdom is that you should have the upper shipped directly to your gunsmith and have them make it compliant before you take possession, rather than ship it to you, but that's not written in stone.

Keep in mind that most AR manufactures make a MA compliant version already, and its cheaper to just order it from the factory without the flash suppressor, rather than pay to have it chopped off. Then you have a clean barrel that you can thread and add a suppressor to after you leave the state, if you wish (or just sell the MA version when you move and buy a new one out of state).
 
TonyDedo said:
Preban is a dramatic waste of money, if you ask me. You're paying 2x for a 20+ year old receiver just so you can put a telescoping stock on it? Save your money and buy a recently manufactured rifle, and when you move you add any "banned" accessories that you like.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Tony's comment is ridiculously wrong.

I don't even like telescoping stocks and I see the value in a pre-ban. You are forgetting that a pre-ban allows you to have a threaded muzzle. Which is huge.

If you shoot competitively, the ability to change out or tweak the brake on the end of the barrel is very useful.
If you own silencers, the ability mount a reasonably priced silencer that doesn't require proprietary expensive brake/mounts to be permanently attached can be a plus.

Can you build a really nice rifle with a post ban config. Absolutely. Is a pre-ban worth it for certain people, also yes. It just depends on what you want. If you are good with a fixed comp or a plain muzzle, then just go post ban.

Oh yeah, and they're a great investment. I sold a pre-ban lower that I bought for $250 6 years ago for $1100 during the panic.
 
Last edited:
If you want to go pre-ban do it. But do it for the right reasons. Do it because that that little nub of metal called a bayonet lug means something to you. Do it because even though the collapsible stock that doesn't really offer much of a size reduction, it reminds you of the M4 you carried in combat. Do it because you grew up on M16's with bird cage flash suppressors, and everything else looks as gay as a bag of dicks. Do it because you can afford it and don't GAF what others say about spending money on features/things you don't need, but really want. In the end, it's no more stupid than spending thousands to go see the world series or super bowl, and be left with nothing but an alcohol fuzzed recollection of the event. No more stupid than buying a Corvette, when a Prius would clearly satisfy the need to get from point A to B. No more stupid than buying a Rolex when a cheap Timex will do.
Do it or don't do it, but don't rely on internet wankers to tell you what to do.

Chris
 
ranger4-7 said:
If you want to go pre-ban do it. But do it for the right reasons. Do it because that that little nub of metal called a bayonet lug means something to you. Do it because even though the collapsible stock that doesn't really offer much of a size reduction, it reminds you of the M4 you carried in combat. Do it because you grew up on M16's with bird cage flash suppressors, and everything else looks as gay as a bag of dicks. Do it because you can afford it and don't GAF what others say about spending money on features/things you don't need, but really want. In the end, it's no more stupid than spending thousands to go see the world series or super bowl, and be left with nothing but an alcohol fuzzed recollection of the event. No more stupid than buying a Corvette, when a Prius would clearly satisfy the need to get from point A to B. No more stupid than buying a Rolex when a cheap Timex will do.
Do it or don't do it, but don't rely on internet wankers to tell you what to do.

Chris
Click to expand...

I wish I could put that in my sig. PERFECT.
 
its funny the whole thing with ppl in ma WANTING an a2 flash hider. everyone from free states takes them right off for brakes but in MA we ppl spend a couple g's just so they can say FU to the man and get a birdcage? i dont get it
 
dcmdon said:
Oh yeah, and they're a great investment. I sold a pre-ban lower that I bought for $250 6 years ago for $1100 during the panic.
Click to expand...
I thought I was an idiot for paying $400 for a complete EA lower and $1150 for a complete un-fired pre-ban Colt Sporter Target during the panic.
 
TonyDedo said:
Preban is a dramatic waste of money, if you ask me. You're paying 2x for a 20+ year old receiver just so you can put a telescoping stock on it? Save your money and buy a recently manufactured rifle, and when you move you add any "banned" accessories that you like.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. The only thing I can see it being good for is putting a collapsible or adjustable stock. I can't see paying a premium for that.
 
je25ff said:
Pretty much. The only thing I can see it being good for is putting a collapsible or adjustable stock. I can't see paying a premium for that.
Click to expand...

How about a threaded muzzle Jeff?

Have you ever shot a gun with a really great brake? Have you ever experimented with different ones.

How about silencers? Some people have homes in MA and some other state where they may choose to keep a silencer.


And lets say you really want to bayonet someone . . just kidding. That thing is useless.
 
You don't say that you are moving to Ft Sill just that you have orders to report. If you live in Ma. and have any intentions of coming home remember what you buy you are stuck with and you may end up either selling a gun you love or spending a bundle on a retro fit to make it Ma. compliant. The advise of sending it to a gunsmith as if that was easy is something you want to check into. Gunsmiths are not cheap and they shouldn't be. The idea that a Ma. compliant rifle such as an AR is a piece of crap is BS. You get what you pay for. there are many pre ban AR's out there that are as good as new and will preform circles around a cheap put together build by God knows who. Caution is advised. Look around and have a talk with other owners and then choose. I will not be as bold as to tell you what to do but I can give you the advise of my 68 yrs.I myself have a pre ban Colt Ar-15 Sporter Lightweight that is as good as new. Thanks for your service. I think you will like Ft Sill but forget any idea of seeing green until you come home. Hagrid
 
dcmdon said:
Tony's comment is ridiculously wrong.

I don't even like telescoping stocks and I see the value in a pre-ban. You are forgetting that a pre-ban allows you to have a threaded muzzle. Which is huge.

If you shoot competitively, the ability to change out or tweak the brake on the end of the barrel is very useful.
If you own silencers, the ability mount a reasonably priced silencer that doesn't require proprietary expensive brake/mounts to be permanently attached can be a plus.

Can you build a really nice rifle with a post ban config. Absolutely. Is a pre-ban worth it for certain people, also yes. It just depends on what you want. If you are good with a fixed comp or a plain muzzle, then just go post ban.

Oh yeah, and they're a great investment. I sold a pre-ban lower that I bought for $250 6 years ago for $1100 during the panic.
Click to expand...

He'll at least get all of his money back on the back end when he goes to sell it come this December. It's pretty much a no brainer unless he doesn't have the extra $400 or whatever sitting around.

-Mike
 
dcmdon said:
How about a threaded muzzle Jeff?

Have you ever shot a gun with a really great brake? Have you ever experimented with different ones.

How about silencers? Some people have homes in MA and some other state where they may choose to keep a silencer.


And lets say you really want to bayonet someone . . just kidding. That thing is useless.
Click to expand...

So I can have a can legally in MA? When did this happen?

Edit: Ok, you got me, yes you can experiment with different breaks. I still don't see that being a $500+ premium.
 
je25ff said:
So I can have a can legally in MA? When did this happen?

Edit: Ok, you got me, yes you can experiment with different breaks. I still don't see that being a $500+ premium.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you want and what you are willing to pay. If you want an AR in the configuration in which it was originally designed/issued, then the $500 premium is a non issue. If you don't care or you can't afford it, then get a post ban with a muzzle break that helps to address non-existent recoil, or is simply what Martha says you can own.
 
I already have a muzzle break on the AR I built, I'm talking about an NFA silencer.
 

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