Update: Active driver/stabber at Ohio State, now dead

Breaking: Photo released of the suspect being shot

15241398_10158077280625019_3246033884795839844_n.jpg
 
Picton said:
Yeah... theoretically, Alice increases liability. Lots of administrators get freaked about any whiff of confrontation, though some do see the light. Even in a profession with no shortage of milquetoasts, some are more milque, others more toast. If that makes any sense.
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CTpatriot said:
Once you fight back you open yourself to prosecution [hmmm]
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Our town is used to this. Pretty good town lawyer. Happy to live in a green town amongst some ultra liberal sh!t-towns.

GM-GUY said:
Better open to prosecution than open casket. You are correct though, in this state if you do anything to or against a criminal the lawyers line up on their side before you are done at the police station.
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Exactly. I'm glad people in our school are being taught NOT to be victims. With 3 little girls in school, I'm pretty adamant about this.
 
GPP said:
They do? I see this sentiment repeated over and over here, but there are never any examples cited. I agree with the open to prosecution being better than an open casket mentality of course, and Im well aware of your more than warranted disgust with the system. Id love to see some actual numbers in regards to criminal or civil prosecution of victims that fought back.
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I do recall a case back years ago that sparked the outrage that prompted the passing of the castle law in Ma.
I can't find a link to it .
The basics were that some gals ex kicked in her door and went after her with a knife.
He chased her around the house and got her a few good ones and cornered her upstairs before she got to a gun and shot him.
Whoever the D-bag DA was at the time went after her balls out.
His claim was that she could have escaped by jumping out a second story window if she really wanted to , so there was no justification to shoot him. [thinking]
She got found innocent and the public outcry got the bill passed
 
CTsupra said:
You guys are all missing the real issue here. This guy used a fully-automatic, 4000lb, assault transmission equipped missle. I move to ban all automatic transmissions and from here on out order all vehicle manufacturers to sell manual transmissions only. No one needs an automatic vehicle.
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Would the semi automatics be OK? They most certainly would be pre-ban...My old man's '54 Chrysler Imperial would have done the job for sure..
 
jtnf said:
One of the greatest ad-libbed scenes of all time. Sword-swinging actor was on the ball and reacted to the gunshot. Look it up, its' hilarious.


And now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
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Yeah Harrison Ford was really sick that day and he was suppose to use his whip in a drawn out fight scene. He drew his gun instead (out of script) and the rest is history.
 
clampett said:
I never heard of this round. Your link makes it sound like a .300 Black Out on steroids. Does anyone on this forum shoot this round?
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All yesterday i was debating opening a thread asking who uses/has used .458 socom.
While nomarlly id opt for 45-70 gov...since i have an m16 it would seem like a missed opportunity not to go .458 socom full auto..
Its not the price of the upper that turns me off, its the lack of choices, maunfacturer, length, piston driven.

Then there is the proprietary brass and $2-$3 a complete round price tag.

Im pretty much done with the m16/ar15 platform and lloking to enjoy one last hooray from the platfom.
While expanding my pumpkin slaying toys...im still on the lookout for a 10 gauge.
 
Last edited:
Dadstoys said:
I do recall a case back years ago that sparked the outrage that prompted the passing of the castle law in Ma.
I can't find a link to it .
The basics were that some gals ex kicked in her door and went after her with a knife.
He chased her around the house and got her a few good ones and cornered her upstairs before she got to a gun and shot him.
Whoever the D-bag DA was at the time went after her balls out.
His claim was that she could have escaped by jumping out a second story window if she really wanted to , so there was no justification to shoot him. [thinking]
She got found innocent and the public outcry got the bill passed
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Hey man thanks for at least addressing my post; as usual, the ones most vociferous on this subject have melted into solitude. Im shocked.

If you can find the particulars, or a name, or a town, a county, or something that I can research, itd be most appreciated.

My guess is though, is that there is not a veritable overflowing cornucopia of cases where the involved countys DAs office was/is chomping at that magical bit to build some stupendous case against an individual who properly defended him or herself under castle doctrine in MA, just "because Massachusetts".

Once again, the sky is not falling.
 
GPP said:
They do? I see this sentiment repeated over and over here, but there are never any examples cited. I agree with the open to prosecution being better than an open casket mentality of course, and Im well aware of your more than warranted disgust with the system. Id love to see some actual numbers in regards to criminal or civil prosecution of victims that fought back.
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Part of the problem is the sample rate in MA isn't exactly high, partially because there aren't a lot of non LE gun carriers here, and also, because of the "way the crime happens here". If I was going to bet money, most of the "violence" arrests in MA are shitbird on shitbird, or domestic violence. There isn't exactly a metric ton, of random armed home invasions, or armed carjackings in this state of random people. There seem to be a fair number of muggings in certain places, but every time I hear about them 9 out of 10 times the victims seem to be profiled pretty hard by the attackers- eg, in Boston, Cambridge, most of the victims seem to be college students doing things like walking around with headphones on... There are a bunch of "stop and rob" "liquor store" or delivery driver robbery incidents I hear about, but it seems like most of these people in MA are unarmed.

It's also just plain hard to get real data- like how many times in a non douche town does a guy pull a gun on some oxygen thief, the guy runs away, cops come, interview the guy, and don't charge him? Nobody ever hears about this because their lawyer probably tells them to shut up. So it doesn't even make it into the paper, either. I've even heard of it happening in Boston a few times, but all third hand. Locally where I live in Fitchburg I've heard of a few SD incidents where seemingly nothing happened afterwards, although one almost doesn't count because a city councilor was an eyewitness and one of the "possible victims" of the BG.

-Mike
 
GPP said:
Hey man thanks for at least addressing my post; as usual, the ones most vociferous on this subject have melted into solitude. Im shocked.

If you can find the particulars, or a name, or a town, a county, or something that I can research, itd be most appreciated.
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I got ya brother. The case was in 1975. Google search "ma castle doctrine cases"

Interestingly, the Castle Doctrine was not always an undisputed principle. In my home state of Massachusetts, for example, our supreme court ruled in 1975 that residents of the Commonwealth enjoyed no such exemption from the generalized duty to retreat [see Commonwealth v. Shaffer, 326 N.E.2d 880 (MA Supreme Court 1975)]. The facts of the case are quite horrific. Shaffer and her two small children had retreated from her abusive fiance all the way to the basement of her home. She had received numerous beatings from him in the past. The fiance, standing at the top of the basement stairs, told her: “If you don’t come up these stairs, I’ll come down and kill you and the kids.” When contrary to the woman’s pleas and warnings he began coming down the steps, she shot him once with a .22 rifle. The wound was mortal. Shaffer was indicted for murder, and was tried on manslaughter. She was convicted at trial, the conviction was affirmed by the appellate court, and then again by the state Supreme Court (in the case cited above), on the basis that she failed to take advantage of a safe avenue of retreat.

The public response to this decision was immediate and overwhelmingly negative, and the MA legislature promptly passed Massachusetts General Law Ch. 278 §8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense, creating a statutory Castle Doctrine. Even today, however, the Massachusetts Castle Doctrine is among the most restrictive in the country, applying only to the space within the four walls of your home—step one foot outside, and the generalized duty to retreat is once again imposed. (Most other states’ Castle Doctrines also apply it to what is known as the curtilage, the area around your home that is part of the ordinary use of the home–so, the porch, the driveway, the front yard, etc.)

Read more: http://www.ammoland.com/2014/01/muc...nd-your-ground-castle-doctrine/#ixzz4SyktDffI
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
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Here's a link to the case. http://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/commonwealth-v-shaffer/
 
PaulR said:
Seriously check into this. Our school changed it's policy too. AFAIK, the teachers also received to training as to what they should do besides sheltering. This was in conjunction with the local PD.......I'll see if I can get you some info on it.
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The only true effective way to counter active shooters/stabbers is legally armed citizens. Anything else is just herding up the defenseless sheep for their pre-planned slaughter.

Run= Shot in the back / Hide = you live a little longer and fight = throw the stapler/chalk board eraser/3 hole punch which still = dead.

You can't fix stupid..
 
GPP said:
They do? I see this sentiment repeated over and over here, but there are never any examples cited. I agree with the open to prosecution being better than an open casket mentality of course, and Im well aware of your more than warranted disgust with the system. Id love to see some actual numbers in regards to criminal or civil prosecution of victims that fought back.
Click to expand...

Even though some examples may not have made it thru the system why overlook them?

How about the guy who pounded pedo diddler in bathroom promoting the AG to famously quote " we dont believe in self help..."

Or my personal favorite the security guard who dispatched the psycho stabbing a doctor. It was two weeks before they reversed course on his railroading...

Going by case law strictly is going to lead you right where they want you. The system wants it this way. Im sure you must have presented evidence before a grand jury. would you say the DA is more interested in the truth or a solid case?

I asked a DA who even after an extremely biased presentation of attempted murder on a child endangerment case that involved a massive amount of speculation why no charge on the attempt? Because that one would have been hard to get to stick... Forget the fact that it obviously didnt even happen.
 
GPP said:
They do? I see this sentiment repeated over and over here, but there are never any examples cited. I agree with the open to prosecution being better than an open casket mentality of course, and Im well aware of your more than warranted disgust with the system. Id love to see some actual numbers in regards to criminal or civil prosecution of victims that fought back.
Click to expand...


Nick Fury said:
Even though some examples may not have made it thru the system why overlook them?

How about the guy who pounded pedo diddler in bathroom promoting the AG to famously quote " we dont believe in self help..."

Or my personal favorite the security guard who dispatched the psycho stabbing a doctor. It was two weeks before they reversed course on his railroading...

Going by case law strictly is going to lead you right where they want you. The system wants it this way. Im sure you must have presented evidence before a grand jury. would you say the DA is more interested in the truth or a solid case?

I asked a DA who even after an extremely biased presentation of attempted murder on a child endangerment case that involved a massive amount of speculation why no charge on the attempt? Because that one would have been hard to get to stick... Forget the fact that it obviously didnt even happen.
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Caetano?
 
Wrench75 said:
I got ya brother. The case was in 1975. Google search "ma castle doctrine cases"



Here's a link to the case. http://lawofselfdefense.com/law_case/commonwealth-v-shaffer/
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Shaffer is an awful case to go by, do I agree with the fact that she needed to ventilate the guy? Absolutely. In Shaffer, the threat wasnt there in the eyes of the jury when she fired. She also had multiple opportunities to get out of the house with the kids, and to call police. Shitty situation, no question, and I cant help but wonder if that case was tried today, if the result would have been different.
 
Nick Fury said:
Even though some examples may not have made it thru the system why overlook them?

How about the guy who pounded pedo diddler in bathroom promoting the AG to famously quote " we dont believe in self help..."

Or my personal favorite the security guard who dispatched the psycho stabbing a doctor. It was two weeks before they reversed course on his railroading...

Going by case law strictly is going to lead you right where they want you. The system wants it this way. Im sure you must have presented evidence before a grand jury. would you say the DA is more interested in the truth or a solid case?

I asked a DA who even after an extremely biased presentation of attempted murder on a child endangerment case that involved a massive amount of speculation why no charge on the attempt? Because that one would have been hard to get to stick... Forget the fact that it obviously didnt even happen.
Click to expand...


Why overlook the examples that didnt make it thru the system? Because they didnt make it thru the system, they arent examples at all.
Im not recalling the pedo diddler bathroom pounding, but was the beating self defense or was it a beating that was probaby warranted, but not self defense?
The security guard that shot the stabber in the hospital wasnt charged , is the railroading you mention the suspending of his LTC and all that ridiculousness? How about the guy answering a Craigslist Ad just recntly in Brockton? He shot a bad guy, right? No charges, no LTC suspension, nothing.

I think an ADA saying that a charge wouldnt stick is just another way to say that the incident didnt happen, but they wont actually say that.
Grand Juries are the best thing going in my opinion, and though its widely agreed upon that you can "indict a ham sandwich" thats not really the case. Your ADA not going forward with attempted murder charge sounds like a perfect example. I think there are certainly a few ADAs that are more concerned with their case then the truth though, but I believe the GJ keeps a good handle on that.
 
Yeah the GJ is great. Unless guns, kids, and women who make poor choices are involved. Oh add dogs to that list.

I put in six days and walked out knowing never to expect any rational out of my fellow man when its actually needed...
 
GPP said:
Shaffer is an awful case to go by, do I agree with the fact that she needed to ventilate the guy? Absolutely. In Shaffer, the threat wasnt there in the eyes of the jury when she fired. She also had multiple opportunities to get out of the house with the kids, and to call police. Shitty situation, no question, and I cant help but wonder if that case was tried today, if the result would have been different.
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https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/55174379/

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/47889235/

curiosity, I had to check up on this. She did no time, was immediately furloughed by Dukakis upon reporting to Framingham Prison.
 
Nick Fury said:
Yeah the GJ is great. Unless guns, kids, and women who make poor choices are involved. Oh add dogs to that list.

I put in six days and walked out knowing never to expect any rational out of my fellow man when its actually needed...
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Perhaps you could expound a bit? Were you expecting everyone else in the GJ to go with your own wayof thinking and they didnt? It seems that you mean that the rest of the GJ were irrational because they didnt agree with you, please correct me if Im wrong.
 
Nick Fury said:
Or my personal favorite the security guard who dispatched the psycho stabbing a doctor. It was two weeks before they reversed course on his railroading...
Click to expand...

Paul Langone was "potentially on the hook" for a LOT longer than 2 weeks, IIRC. There was no "reversal of course" btw, it was just the DA being an unprofessional prick and sitting on his hands instead of just letting him off the hook after a cursory investigation was conducted. In any less shitty part of the country he would have probably been unofficially off the hook in under a week. (Unofficially meaning the prosecutor would have required additional evidence to even consider prosecuting him. )

-Mike
 

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