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UPDATE- Completed! 'Unlimited' M1 Build- Start w/ receiver or CMP Rifle?
- Thread starter Mountain
- Start date
Sweeney
NES Member
That's what I meant... release the pressure. No need to fully open the trigger guard.
So this passed the tilt test without, but not with the stock. Definitely some rubbin' goin' on. I can't quite determine exactly where, but I plan to open up some clearance overall. I don't think I have a rounded rasp, but I guess that would the the quickest method. Hope to clear some wood and re-shoot before I go overseas.
Ugh...
Lots of work clearing wood and even just a little metal from the ferrule. Sanded the wood, gave the ferrule a little polish and edge chamfer, button it up, and back to the range:
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This is the last target today, shot with Creedmoor Lapua ammo from CMP. The target in the above post was PPU Match. Last time I shot, I could not get the Creedmoor to settle down, so this is a significant improvement over the prior trip. It did take a few shots to get it to settle down.
The Good:
-Goes bang every time, ejects with authority but isn't beating up my brass.
-It's shooting OK and on paper, was in the black last time.
-Windage is nice and centered. I over-compensated with the windage and shot 5 without looking in the scope, that's why shots in the pic are too far left. My fault not the rifle's.
Here are my problems:
-Shoots high at 100 yds: I am aiming line of white / 6:00 hold, rear sight bottomed out. I prefer a standard 6:00 hold. It's shooting slightly higher than last time. What's up with that? FYI, I have a NM aperture in a NM base. Also a NM front sight.
-Vertical stringing: BAD at first, tending to the high side, then settles down.
-Trigger pull very hard. Nice break, just takes a big pull to break it.
Would a trigger job settle down that stringing? What about shooting high? I'd post on the M14 forum for some advice from the gurus but I have forgotten my password, LOL.
Edit-
I probably should have shot with a sling- I am more stable with a sling than from a rest off the bench. Even so, I don't think all of the stringing is me.
Lots of work clearing wood and even just a little metal from the ferrule. Sanded the wood, gave the ferrule a little polish and edge chamfer, button it up, and back to the range:
This is the last target today, shot with Creedmoor Lapua ammo from CMP. The target in the above post was PPU Match. Last time I shot, I could not get the Creedmoor to settle down, so this is a significant improvement over the prior trip. It did take a few shots to get it to settle down.
The Good:
-Goes bang every time, ejects with authority but isn't beating up my brass.
-It's shooting OK and on paper, was in the black last time.
-Windage is nice and centered. I over-compensated with the windage and shot 5 without looking in the scope, that's why shots in the pic are too far left. My fault not the rifle's.
Here are my problems:
-Shoots high at 100 yds: I am aiming line of white / 6:00 hold, rear sight bottomed out. I prefer a standard 6:00 hold. It's shooting slightly higher than last time. What's up with that? FYI, I have a NM aperture in a NM base. Also a NM front sight.
-Vertical stringing: BAD at first, tending to the high side, then settles down.
-Trigger pull very hard. Nice break, just takes a big pull to break it.
Would a trigger job settle down that stringing? What about shooting high? I'd post on the M14 forum for some advice from the gurus but I have forgotten my password, LOL.
Edit-
I probably should have shot with a sling- I am more stable with a sling than from a rest off the bench. Even so, I don't think all of the stringing is me.
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Shooting high can be a few things.
Remove both hand guards and make sure the barrel is not hitting the stock anywhere.
Is lower band tight?
String can be a few things. Rear hand guard pinching between receiver and band?
Your trigger stiffness could just be a rough trigger or might even be hitting the stock?
There is a pretty good stock fitting thread on milsurps and in that bulk file thing I sent you.
Heavy trigger? Make sure pins are straight and not snagging. I polished and blued my pins in my JCG match rifle. Also lightly stoned all flate surfaces including the safety. Basically any,place that had potential to rub or hang up I gave a little stone (remove park and high spots and blued it) does not take much.
Do you have a way to measure trigger pull.
You just might be spoiled?
Remove both hand guards and make sure the barrel is not hitting the stock anywhere.
Is lower band tight?
String can be a few things. Rear hand guard pinching between receiver and band?
Your trigger stiffness could just be a rough trigger or might even be hitting the stock?
There is a pretty good stock fitting thread on milsurps and in that bulk file thing I sent you.
Heavy trigger? Make sure pins are straight and not snagging. I polished and blued my pins in my JCG match rifle. Also lightly stoned all flate surfaces including the safety. Basically any,place that had potential to rub or hang up I gave a little stone (remove park and high spots and blued it) does not take much.
Do you have a way to measure trigger pull.
You just might be spoiled?
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A couple weeks ago, I had to borrow some of her Nail Polish so I could mark the 2/3/600 yard elevations on my AR
By the time this season is over, my reloading bench is going to have it's own dedicated makeup shelf....
Thanks guys, comments below:
Good call regarding the aperture rack. Pretty sure it's not beveled and it looks like the aperture could travel lower if it was. It's possible the aperture is moving a little if bottomed out and not fully 'clicked' in.
I had already worked a slight bend along the liner- if it rubs it would be barely rubbing. Op rod tilts easily even with grease.
I need to check inside hand guards, though I don't think they are hitting. Good clearance.
Rear HG not pinching- good clearance there too.
Re stock fitting- yep, used some of that info to create good clearance where needed.
Have not yet done any trigger work and yes![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
, I'm probably spoiled as most of my rifles have very good to excellent triggers. I can use hang weights to check pull- that method worked for my highpower AR, which was close to the limit yet passed inspection at Vermont.
One more thing I might try that you can appreciate- +0.5 diopter lens. If that helps get a better focus on the front sight without blurring the target too much, it just might help.
Back to the bench...
Good call regarding the aperture rack. Pretty sure it's not beveled and it looks like the aperture could travel lower if it was. It's possible the aperture is moving a little if bottomed out and not fully 'clicked' in.
I had already worked a slight bend along the liner- if it rubs it would be barely rubbing. Op rod tilts easily even with grease.
I need to check inside hand guards, though I don't think they are hitting. Good clearance.
Rear HG not pinching- good clearance there too.
Re stock fitting- yep, used some of that info to create good clearance where needed.
Have not yet done any trigger work and yes
, I'm probably spoiled as most of my rifles have very good to excellent triggers. I can use hang weights to check pull- that method worked for my highpower AR, which was close to the limit yet passed inspection at Vermont.One more thing I might try that you can appreciate- +0.5 diopter lens. If that helps get a better focus on the front sight without blurring the target too much, it just might help.
Back to the bench...
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71montess
NES Member
My Garand is shooting high at 100 also. Looked like the front handguard ferrule was rubbing so I did remove some wood from the top of the handguard and added epoxy to the bottom of the handguard and refitted the ferrule. Now I've got to see how it shoots tomorrow.
Thanks guys, comments below:
Good call regarding the aperture rack. Pretty sure it's not beveled and it looks like the aperture could travel lower if it was. It's possible the aperture is moving a little if bottomed out and not fully 'clicked' in.
I had already worked a slight bend along the liner- if it rubs it would be barely rubbing. Op rod tilts easily even with grease.
I need to check inside hand guards, though I don't think they are hitting. Good clearance.
Rear HG not pinching- good clearance there too.
Re stock fitting- yep, used some of that info to create good clearance where needed.
Have not yet done any trigger work and yes
One more thing I might try that you can appreciate- +0.5 diopter lens. If that helps get a better focus on the front sight without blurring the target too much, it just might help.
Back to the bench...
I have a +.5 for 200 yards and in. For 600 I use +.25 insert in my hood on the AR.
+.5 should be fine down range. For me +.75 starts to get that wobble anything stronger I get headaches and that seasick feeling.
I don't know how to put it to words.
There are a few things I look for
1. Install stock with out hand guards.
Look to see how concentric the action sits in the stock. All centered nothing rubbing. Square in the barrel channel
2. The top flat has the relief as shown in my video.
Also look to see if the stock is true. I have a few stocks that the receiver shelf is lop sided. Along with the trigger guard seat I have seen a few FUBAR.
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Ok so US weapons command over haul of the rifle US cal 30 M1 says
Shooting high
1. Right fit between stock and hand guard at front band. Stock forces hand guard and front band up.
Fix: replace hand guard or stock. Or in our case make it work.
2. Long aperture, over all length
Fix: install short aperture.
3. Low front sight
Fix: replace sight
4.Bent barrel...Replace barrel
I posted the target somewhere.
Accuracy and targeting test.
From the manual.
U.S. Army Weapons Command Depot Maintenance Work Instructions For Overhaul Of The Rifle, U.S. Cal. .30 :M1 dated 1965
3.10 Targeting and accuracy. Five rounds fired from the rifle at a range of 1000" inches shall be within a 1.77" diameter circle, and the circle shall be withing the targeting area (heavy outline) specified on drawing # D7266850 when tested as specified in 4.4.3.2.2 and 4.5.7. <<<< i can post this later
Shooting high
1. Right fit between stock and hand guard at front band. Stock forces hand guard and front band up.
Fix: replace hand guard or stock. Or in our case make it work.
2. Long aperture, over all length
Fix: install short aperture.
3. Low front sight
Fix: replace sight
4.Bent barrel...Replace barrel
I posted the target somewhere.
Accuracy and targeting test.
From the manual.
U.S. Army Weapons Command Depot Maintenance Work Instructions For Overhaul Of The Rifle, U.S. Cal. .30 :M1 dated 1965
3.10 Targeting and accuracy. Five rounds fired from the rifle at a range of 1000" inches shall be within a 1.77" diameter circle, and the circle shall be withing the targeting area (heavy outline) specified on drawing # D7266850 when tested as specified in 4.4.3.2.2 and 4.5.7. <<<< i can post this later
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continued from post 12
4.4.3.2.2. targeting and accuracy firing testing: rifles taken from each lot in accordance with MILSTD105, using inspection level S-3, shall be tested by the supplier shall be tested for targeting and accuracy out lined in 4.5.7. lot acceptance shall be based on a AQL of 4.0% defective. Rejected lots shall be subjected to 100% testing....
4.5.7. 3 warm up shots are allowed before testing, with the rear sight set at zero windage, aperture elevated eight clicks from lowest position and sights aligned 6 oclock on the sighting image specifiedon the targeting diagram,a series of 5 shots shall be fired for the targeting and accuracy requirements. additional elevation of plus or minus 2 clicks and moving the front sight for windage is allowed to meet targeting requirements.
As you read on in the book it goes into the lot testing.... 3 5 shot groups from 10 rifles and record the average extreme spread of the 30 groups. Im not sure how the averages work but you could have some pretty loose groups im sure and still be good enough for GI.
simply put as others have said in the ten ring of a SR 1 and your doing well.....
4.4.3.2.2. targeting and accuracy firing testing: rifles taken from each lot in accordance with MILSTD105, using inspection level S-3, shall be tested by the supplier shall be tested for targeting and accuracy out lined in 4.5.7. lot acceptance shall be based on a AQL of 4.0% defective. Rejected lots shall be subjected to 100% testing....
4.5.7. 3 warm up shots are allowed before testing, with the rear sight set at zero windage, aperture elevated eight clicks from lowest position and sights aligned 6 oclock on the sighting image specifiedon the targeting diagram,a series of 5 shots shall be fired for the targeting and accuracy requirements. additional elevation of plus or minus 2 clicks and moving the front sight for windage is allowed to meet targeting requirements.
As you read on in the book it goes into the lot testing.... 3 5 shot groups from 10 rifles and record the average extreme spread of the 30 groups. Im not sure how the averages work but you could have some pretty loose groups im sure and still be good enough for GI.
simply put as others have said in the ten ring of a SR 1 and your doing well.....
Yeah, I think it will pass the 1.77" circle at 27.7 yards. ![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Not exactly match performance.
Those are sort of the Captain Obvious answers from Uncle Sam...
I'm going to head down to the 'shop' and bevel that aperture rack.
Not exactly match performance.Those are sort of the Captain Obvious answers from Uncle Sam...
I'm going to head down to the 'shop' and bevel that aperture rack.
Yeah, I think it will pass the 1.77" circle at 27.7 yards.
Those are sort of the Captain Obvious answers from Uncle Sam...
I'm going to head down to the 'shop' and bevel that aperture rack.
I have told myself many times I was going to shorten my front sight so my 200 yard zero is only 4-5 clicks up for a better cheekweld
- - - Updated - - -
Some times Cpt. Obvious laughs right in our face.
- - - Updated - - -
Why does it do that^
OK, so according to Uncle Sam I'm done: Calipers show 2.91" would cover the 5 shots, so ~2.6" group size. National Match ready!
Rack was beveled but still hitting before aperture could get close to bottom. I took a little off and now get a few more clicks down. Not my best grinding job but it works.
Going to try the sling and +0.5 lens before getting too detailed on this. Taking my wife to the range tomorrow for some fun shooting. Not sure she'll want to wait for me to set up and then shoot prone. Garand can wait...
OK, so according to Uncle Sam I'm done: Calipers show 2.91" would cover the 5 shots, so ~2.6" group size. National Match ready!
Rack was beveled but still hitting before aperture could get close to bottom. I took a little off and now get a few more clicks down. Not my best grinding job but it works.
Going to try the sling and +0.5 lens before getting too detailed on this. Taking my wife to the range tomorrow for some fun shooting. Not sure she'll want to wait for me to set up and then shoot prone. Garand can wait...
Nice.... see it's not hard to build a NM rifle!
+0.5 glasses will be at the house when I return from Marseille. Some trips to BFE China it sucks to be me but not this trip. ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
. I will try them at Pembroke on Sunday.
Maybe I should bring the .308 too. If we don't have the turnout for the MM match maybe I can be someone's guest for a few minutes after the JCG match. I really enjoyed shooting my 1903 with Gene last time.
. I will try them at Pembroke on Sunday. Maybe I should bring the .308 too. If we don't have the turnout for the MM match maybe I can be someone's guest for a few minutes after the JCG match. I really enjoyed shooting my 1903 with Gene last time.
Still picking away at improvements for the .308 Garand. The NM front sight ramp was fitting loose, so that could account for some or perhaps a lot of the vertical stringing. Some of the stringing is me, for sure. Krieger sight ramp arrived this week, so hope to fit and install tonight. Horizontal displacement on that last target was super tight.
I need to NM attach the front handguard. I think I have links from Mac. Need to figure out size of the screws and position of the screw holes.
Lastly, trigger job. Maybe will try on my own.
If all the above work, I'll have a NM Garand for about the same dough as a CMP Special .308 (the current ones with the pitted receivers). Except my receiver is a WWII in excellent condition. I'll post results in the coming days.
I need to NM attach the front handguard. I think I have links from Mac. Need to figure out size of the screws and position of the screw holes.
Lastly, trigger job. Maybe will try on my own.
If all the above work, I'll have a NM Garand for about the same dough as a CMP Special .308 (the current ones with the pitted receivers). Except my receiver is a WWII in excellent condition. I'll post results in the coming days.
Nice....I think the directions for trigger job are in there also... I did not got to crazy with mine. Just shortened up the 2nd stage and stopped at 5lbs.
How did the trigger on the special feel after the work done?
Nice, productive trip to the range today. El Cheapo M1 NM clone shooting better after some work fitting the front handguard, some wood clearing, and fitting an oversize rear NM sight ramp. First 3 shots under 1 MOA 100 yards, then of course got excited and screwed up the next two shots for a sub 2 MOA group. Pretty happy with this given the gorilla power trigger pull and not yet screwing and gluing the front handguard. I think it will be a success after I take care of the trigger and handguard mod.
Not milsurp but also took my AR-6.5CM. Put a new Leupold Mk3 LRP 4-14x on it. I like the new glass. Shot .464" and .334" groups 100 yards with Winchester factory match ammo. Can't ask for much better with the AR platform.
Not milsurp but also took my AR-6.5CM. Put a new Leupold Mk3 LRP 4-14x on it. I like the new glass. Shot .464" and .334" groups 100 yards with Winchester factory match ammo. Can't ask for much better with the AR platform.
