Vets on double secret probation

[Reptile]

From what I have read, some vets are on double secret probation.

Do you know how this bill could alleviate gun ownership problems for vets with PTSD?

I know this source is not the best but...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-sugarmann/mental-health-gun-bill-ha_b_57950.html



"The compromise bill would make veterans currently prohibited from possessing firearms for mental health reasons eligible to once again possess guns. Under current law, an estimated 80,000 veterans are prohibited from possessing firearms for mental health reasons. This change to the original bill comes in the wake of recent government and private studies revealing that the number of veterans dealing with mental illness is at an all-time high, with many receiving inadequate care. A recent Department of Defense task force study found that the military mental health system lacks providers and is "woefully inadequate" to deal with conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder. Moreover, a new study reports that male U.S. veterans are not only twice as likely to commit suicide as men with no military service, but are also 58 percent more likely to kill themselves with a gun than others who commit suicide. A 2000 analysis by the New York Times of 100 "rampage killers" found that the majority (52 percent) had a military background and 47 percent of the killers had a history of mental health problems."

 

[bostonasphalt2]

so, wait. Something that can potentially be a disqualifier for regular people is not for veterans, solely based on the fact they are veterans? AM I reading that first sentence properly? If so, what the hell!?

 

[Reptile]

so, wait. Something that can potentially be a disqualifier for regular people is not for veterans, solely based on the fact they are veterans? AM I reading that first sentence properly? If so, what the hell!?

No, No. Simply by being diagnosed as PTSD has gotten vets in trouble in the past. Most were never involuntarily committed which is a standard of disqualification on the federal level. Just by going to the VA for PTSD got them on the list.

So actually, vets have it worse than regular people because they can be disqualified for less than an "involuntary commitment".

 

[bostonasphalt2]

No, No. Simply by being diagnosed as PTSD has gotten vets in trouble in the past. Most were never involuntarily committed which is a standard of disqualification on the federal level. Just by going to the VA for PTSD got them on the list.

So actually, vets have it worse than regular people because they can be disqualified for less than an "involuntary commitment".

thanks for the clarification!

 

[depicts]

For a little more clarification... The Clinton administration released the names of 80,000 vets being treated by the VA for PTSD. All of them were stripped of their rights to own firearms.

It didn't matter if they were 10% disabled, or 100% disabled.

Now according to VA regs, a 100% disabled vet with PTSD is not able to handle their own money, or personal care. I can see why they may not be able to handle a gun.

However, someone who is LESS than 100% disabled may still have PTSD, but his problems are insomnia, depression that is treatable or other mental illness that is usually treatable if they get to the right medical help.

A vet, or anyone else for that matter, who is INVOLUNTARILY" committed to a mental health facility by the court, loses their right to own guns.

If a vet VOLUNTARILY asks for treatment, be it for marriage counseling, stress, depression, insomnia or other problems... they have not been "Adjudicated" and should not lose their rights.

This was a part of the Clinton's anti gun war. The problem is starting to be straightened out, but like most things federal, VA and military, it takes a wicked long time.

I know many vets in treatment for PTSD. Most of them know if they should or shouldn't have guns. A lot of the guys I know don't want guns. Some of them have been lifetime shooters, and guns are part of their history and are not a problem. As long as they aren't considered "dangerous" to themselves or others, they can own guns, unless they are at 100%.

 

[wolf223]

For a little more clarification... The Clinton administration released the names of 80,000 vets being treated by the VA for PTSD. All of them were stripped of their rights to own firearms.

It didn't matter if they were 10% disabled, or 100% disabled.

Now according to VA regs, a 100% disabled vet with PTSD is not able to handle their own money, or personal care. I can see why they may not be able to handle a gun.

However, someone who is LESS than 100% disabled may still have PTSD, but his problems are insomnia, depression that is treatable or other mental illness that is usually treatable if they get to the right medical help.

A vet, or anyone else for that matter, who is INVOLUNTARILY" committed to a mental health facility by the court, loses their right to own guns.

If a vet VOLUNTARILY asks for treatment, be it for marriage counseling, stress, depression, insomnia or other problems... they have not been "Adjudicated" and should not lose their rights.

This was a part of the Clinton's anti gun war. The problem is starting to be straightened out, but like most things federal, VA and military, it takes a wicked long time.

I know many vets in treatment for PTSD. Most of them know if they should or shouldn't have guns. A lot of the guys I know don't want guns. Some of them have been lifetime shooters, and guns are part of their history and are not a problem. As long as they aren't considered "dangerous" to themselves or others, they can own guns, unless they are at 100%.

YEP! None of us are 100% sane to begin with. LOL

all joking aside, we see things and are exposed to crap down range. the majority of us come back w/o any major problems. minor adjustment disorders, getting used to being back ect...

if i were to walk into a VA today, i could probably get diagnosed with PTSD - when in fact, I'm just stressed out after being around a bunch of cheese dicks for two weeks, the signs and symptoms are very similar.

i've even held weapons for fellow soldiers who were having issues - all the ones I know personally are better, back to work, back to "normal" - but they will always carry the diagnosis of PTSD., from the VA - not neccessarily the military.

 

[Reptile]

For a little more clarification... The Clinton administration released the names of 80,000 vets being treated by the VA for PTSD. All of them were stripped of their rights to own firearms.

It didn't matter if they were 10% disabled, or 100% disabled.

Now according to VA regs, a 100% disabled vet with PTSD is not able to handle their own money, or personal care. I can see why they may not be able to handle a gun.

However, someone who is LESS than 100% disabled may still have PTSD, but his problems are insomnia, depression that is treatable or other mental illness that is usually treatable if they get to the right medical help.

A vet, or anyone else for that matter, who is INVOLUNTARILY" committed to a mental health facility by the court, loses their right to own guns.

If a vet VOLUNTARILY asks for treatment, be it for marriage counseling, stress, depression, insomnia or other problems... they have not been "Adjudicated" and should not lose their rights.

This was a part of the Clinton's anti gun war. The problem is starting to be straightened out, but like most things federal, VA and military, it takes a wicked long time.

I know many vets in treatment for PTSD. Most of them know if they should or shouldn't have guns. A lot of the guys I know don't want guns. Some of them have been lifetime shooters, and guns are part of their history and are not a problem. As long as they aren't considered "dangerous" to themselves or others, they can own guns, unless they are at 100%.

So, what happened to those 80,000 vets? Did they all get reinstated - except those that were at 100%?

 

[depicts]

Reptile, no, the Congress is still working on the bill to fix the problems. It's been a case by case thing up to now.

There has been a lot of progress this past year, but not everyone is re-instated, not even close.

It's tough sometimes to get a Doctor, particularly a VA doctor, to say they are 100% sure the patient is no danger to himself or others.

Sometimes it take several years or more of treatment before they feel comfortable with it.

When I see my VA mental health provider, I always assure him, "yes, I'm a gun nut, but I'm not a nut, nut!"

Although most of these doctors aren't shooters, they can tell when someone has a problem, and someone is a committed hobbyist. (read: Gun Nut).

I always told my doctors that I handle anger without guns. I don't want to shoot anybody. If I get pissed off at someone I want to use my hands and choke the shit out of them!!! (no lie)

Untreated PTSD like many fellow Vietnam vets suffered, with years of neglect and doubts in the validity of PTSD, caused many Vietnam vets to get worse over the years, and it wasn't until the 1980's that PTSD was accepted as a legitimate disability from the VA.

Now vets returning get screening and outreach help right away. Even then, many Vets don't want to admit to ANY problems, out of fear of jeopardizing a Military, Police or Firefighter career.

The fact of the matter is, the stuff people see in war is above and beyond what most of us consider "NORMAL". Especially with young people, under 21 or 22, who's brains aren't totally formed and matured yet, PTSD can be a problem. Without treatment it starts to build like a big balloon until one day something goes "POP"!

Then there is the problem for vets who just HATE the VA and its bureaucracy so much that they won't even talk to the VA. I have spent a lot of time trying to get friends of mine to seek treatment. My success rate isn't too high. All I can do is keep trying to make people aware of what is available to them for help.

Right now, I participate at the PTSD clinic at the Providence VA Hospital. I talk to younger vets every week. Right now there are over 2000 recent Iraq and Afghani vets being treated in Providence alone, and that is the tip of the iceberg.

When you see some of these guys, bodies burned beyond human recognition, but alive, or missing limbs, eyes or with serious Brain trauma from IED's, it's hard NOT to think they might have mental health issues as well.

The problem is, most people don't ever see it. Only 1% of the population is participating, or has family participating in the war. The other 99% of Americans are at the Mall. (standard joke).

Once someone sees what some of these men and women experience, they quickly understand the need for more mental health care. It's Damn slow coming.

Many of the people I know who asked for help from the VA had to wait years, sometimes many years, before they worked their way into the system. And when someone is already pissed off at the "SYSTEM", they aren't willing to put up with much bullshit even though they need help. Many Vets just walk away and never get the help they need.


ON ANOTHER NOTE: Reptile, is your Avatar Fred Astaire?