Want to buy a rifle / Still looking

[IDPA Mike]

I am in the starting phase of getting my 1st rifle.
I have been shooting and reloading for a few years. Handgun only. I am interested in a rifle.Also for reloading the ammo.
I have many questions.
I am thinking in line with a gun that shoots .223 ammo,but am open to any suggestions.
Being 50 yrs old, and don't want to have 5 rifles before I find the one that suits me .Time and cost being the issue. I am looking to all of your years of experience to help with my choice.
Thanks, Mike

 

[Jose]

I want to use it for competition,target and possible home defense. Is there any choice better than the other?

You need to define which type of targets and competitions do you intend to shoot with it.

I just about guarantee you that the choice most will give you here will not be allowed in or will not be suitable for most NRA rifle sports.

A rifle that is good for home defense is useless for precision rifle matches. A rifle that is perfect for NRA mid range prone is useless for multi-gun.

Define the missions in more detail and you will get a more useful answer.

 

[IDPA Mike]

You need to define which type of targets and competitions do you intend to shoot with it.

I just about guarantee you that the choice most will give you here will not be allowed in or will not be suitable for most NRA rifle sports.

A rifle that is good for home defense is useless for precision rifle matches. A rifle that is perfect for NRA mid range prone is useless for multi-gun.

Define the missions in more detail and you will get a more useful answer.

I shoot IDPA " hopefully you are not to tainted to continue" I've been watching the 3 gun matches survival on the outdoor channel and the guns they use look pretty good. Just don't know the type

 

[TheRoland]

I shoot IDPA " hopefully you are not to tainted to continue" I've been watching the 3 gun matches survival on the outdoor channel and the guns they use look pretty good. Just don't know the type

Sounds like a job for everyone's favorite recommendation: the AR-15. You can swap uppers to get legal in different competion types (not that that's cheap).

The difference between a "carbine" and a "rifle" when talking AR15s is the gas system (which comes in carbine, mid-length, rifle, and random-ass-piston-hack). Mid-length gas systems seem to be the favored in the type of shooting you're talking about. I've got one, though, and sadly, it didn't cause my shooting skills to magically improve.

 

[jar]

I'd definitely go with an AR-15 variant. If you go to an NES members shoot you can try a bunch of different configurations to see what you like. You can shoot pretty much any rifle competition with an AR, depending on configuration.

 

[Jose]

I shoot IDPA " hopefully you are not to tainted to continue" I've been watching the 3 gun matches survival on the outdoor channel and the guns they use look pretty good. Just don't know the type

Personally it doesn't matter to me what you want the rifle for. I only asked to be able to give an intelligent answer.

But if it's too much trouble, I'll just keep my advice to myself.

 

[SKS Ray]

I'd definitely go with an AR-15 variant. If you go to an NES members shoot you can try a bunch of different configurations to see what you like. You can shoot pretty much any rifle competition with an AR, depending on configuration.

What he said.

 

[mac1911]

I would stick to the handgun for home defense. The AR platform is flexible also its good to have one any way.
My favorite 5 rifles/carbines
M1 garand I only shoot the CMP shoots @ local clubs. I do not shoot for score.
AR 15
Russian SKS
Remington 513T 22 cal bolt gun with redfield olympic sights
Poly tech AK- my SHTF gun has never had a failure of any kind.
Home defense, If I needed more than my hand gun???? Think I would go for my 870???

 

[atmay]

+1 for the AR-15. An M4gery would probably suit you pretty well out of the box; and as you get more comfortable with the rifle you can tweak as you see fit (and there's more than likely a market for whatever parts you no longer need).

 

[IDPA Mike]

Still looking.

What does anyone think of the Model: M&P15
Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO / .223

 

[crazymjb]

That is one of the better ARs on the market, from a reputable and local manufacturer none the less.

I would, however, still recommend ordering one from Spikes Tactical. They have dominated the market lately, and have published all their materials data, and have gone above and beyond in proving their rifles are among the best.

It's also not a bad idea to consider building your own rifle. You won't save more than 100 bucks or so, but you'll get to know the setup much better, and you won't have any left over parts when building EXACTLY what you want. That's the route I went, and couldn't be happier.

Two things I would recommend for an M4 style setup (14.5 inch barrel with 1.5 inch pinned break to bring it to a legal length of 16 inches) are a mid length gas system, and 1/7 or 1/8 twist barrel. I believe the M&P is a 1/9 twist, and I know it's a carbine length gas system. This is not a bad gun by any means, the twist doesn't make it or break it, neither does the gas system, but I find my rifle runs much smoother than those with the carbine length gas system.

Beware you will have to dance around the laws in MA to make sure your rifle is not an evil baby killing assault rifle.

Mike

 

[BE4TNUT]

As Mike had mentioned Spikes makes a great rifle from what I hear. I have been AR shopping but have not committed to anything just yet and when I posted on AR15.com the response as to what is a good rifle to be looking into is BCM and Spikes Tactical. I checked both sites and liked what I saw, only to find out that BCM does not ship rifles, or lowers to MA for AWB law reasons... but you can get the lowers elsewhere. Spikes can make their rifles MA compliant with a muzzle break pinned/welded and pinning the stock. It will run you about $150 over the regular price to make it compliant but gets you a high quality rifle. I second Mike's suggestion of looking into Spikes also. You probably won't find shops stocking them to look at and feel before you buy but you may be able to find someone on the forum who has one that may let you check it out before making a final decision.

 

[TheRoland]

I'm very happy with my BCM upper, and would be inclined to buy lower and upper separately.

 

[Old Glory]

LaRue
LMT
Noveske

All really great rifles

 

[Supermoto]

If you plan on shooting USPSA rifle / Multigun competition. I would look at something in 18-20" with a rifle gas system, it will be smoother and more reliable.

 

[BE4TNUT]

I also forgot to throw out there Remsport. They are a local company in MA who seem to have competitive pricing and can build an AR to your spec. I have not shot any but people seem to like them. They also carry a lifetime warranty, and being in MA you can just drive to their shop if something ever goes wrong with the AR. I have spoke to them a couple times and are very nice also. So that is another one to consider. You can call them up and see what they suggest for a first AR and what you would be looking at price wise.

 

[NavelOfficer]

From the stand point of time and money, how about something in the line of an M1 Carbine? Not a tack driver and not anywhere near the ballistics of the Garand's 06 power, but it's a fun, easy shooting, easy handling firearm. Reloading is pretty straight-forward and economical, too.
Even a step lower on the money scale: an SKS. Reloading is almost not worth it, but it can still be done to assure your own ammunition source.
Niether caliber offers extreme variety of bullet choices, but this makes things simple. One bullet, one powder per caliber.
Neither of these are highly polished, sophisticated (or did I mean tempermental...) nor glamorous, but they get you into legitimate rifle shooting economically.
The off-the-rack 10-round capacity (SKS) might be a hindrance for IDPA use, but there are after-market hi-caps to consider.
Fifty year-old eyes might benefit from bigger holes on the target, too.

 

[eisenhow]

If you plan on shooting USPSA rifle / Multigun competition. I would look at something in 18-20" with a rifle gas system, it will be smoother and more reliable.

Is it that the reason? I was wondering why that was preferred, especially if you're using an optic. The longer barrel gives you a little extra velocity but I couldn't imagine that was the reason.

 

[Supermoto]

Is it that the reason? I was wondering why that was preferred, especially if you're using an optic. The longer barrel gives you a little extra velocity but I couldn't imagine that was the reason.

A rifle set up properly for 3Gun is just silly on how smooth and soft it shoots. It makes follow up shots at distance much faster and it is easier to shoot and control in odd positions. You don't lose anything on transitions with the extra weight and length. There is no down side to the 18" barrel. The extra velocity is a definite plus when you have to reach out and knock down steel, shooting in the wind. Some 16" have a hard time making minor PF

 

[jar]

A rifle set up properly for 3Gun is just silly on how smooth and soft it shoots. It makes follow up shots at distance much faster and it is easier to shoot and control in odd positions. You don't lose anything on transitions with the extra weight and length. There is no down side to the 18" barrel. The extra velocity is a definite plus when you have to reach out and knock down steel, shooting in the wind. Some 16" have a hard time making minor PF

I haven't monkeyed with adjustable gas or lightened carrier, and my rifle still shoots really soft. Shooting close open paper, I can just hammer the trigger and the 2 rounds are within an inch or two. I'm sure yours is even softer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b84Of1gsub0&feature=player_embedded shows it off pretty well.

 

[Supermoto]

I haven't monkeyed with adjustable gas or lightened carrier, and my rifle still shoots really soft. Shooting close open paper, I can just hammer the trigger and the 2 rounds are within an inch or two. I'm sure yours is even softer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b84Of1gsub0&feature=player_embedded shows it off pretty well.

Up close, they all shoot small groups fast, there just isnt that much recoil , but when you get out to 15+ yards, thats when you start to see the difference

The rifle in the video is a 16" carbine gas system. Even with the adjustable gas system, it is not as soft as the 18" rifle gas system with all the fixings. particular 16" with the Firebird lothar walthar barrel is softer than most because the gas port is the correct size.

 

[Supermoto]

Stupid iPhone

 

[jar]

Up close, they all shoot small groups fast, there just isnt that much recoil , but when you get out to 15+ yards, thats when you start to see the difference

The rifle in the video is a 16" carbine gas system. Even with the adjustable gas system, it is not as soft as the 18" rifle gas system with all the fixings. particular 16" with the Firebird lothar walthar barrel is softer than most because the gas port is the correct size.

Which do you think is softer, a 16" with the fixins or a stock 18" rifle gas? I've got a ton of work to do before it matters but I'm curious.

 

[Dan S]

Which do you think is softer, a 16" with the fixins or a stock 18" rifle gas? I've got a ton of work to do before it matters but I'm curious.

A 16" with a mid length system will be soft, but, if you spend the money on a 16" with the lightened stuff, add it to an 18" and get even better.

 

[Supermoto]

Which do you think is softer, a 16" with the fixins or a stock 18" rifle gas? I've got a ton of work to do before it matters but I'm curious.

18 stock is smoother. I would not run a carbine gas system with a lightened BCG and buffer. Too much pressure to soon will tear the lightened parts up. I tried heavier buffers in a carbine stock, but it was not as smooth as a rifle length stock.

I have run a 16" carbine with a pigtail gas tube, lightened carrier, buffer with an adjustable gas block. Still not as smooth as as the 18".

 

[jar]

How much effect does the stock/buffer setup have? I'm currently running an 18" rifle gas with an entry length Ace stock (carbine buffer and spring). The A2 stock I had originally was definitely too long. I've been meaning to try the full sized ace without the recoil pad to see where it falls.

 

[Supermoto]

The ACE without the pad is 3/4" shorter than an A2.

I haven't tried a carbine stock on a rifle gas system, so I can not say definitively what works better. I would suspect the rifle length would be better