We need more of this

The clerk needs to learn about carrying cocked & locked. We might just have been reading another dead goblin report if he didn't have to rack the slide first.
 
Drawing on someone pointing a gun at you!!!! Very ballsy and very lucky. Especially when he still he didn't have one in the pipe.

It seems unclear as to whether he fired before or after the robber started to flee.

If the later the shooter could get jammed up.

Also, I doubt the grocery store company will be too keen on the clerk carrying. I wouldn't doubt it if he loses his job.
 
blindndead said:
But if the clerk hit the perp when he was fleeing this thread would be more active. What charge's do you think the clerk will get hit with in this Incident?
Click to expand...

If good guy wants to shoot bad guy in the back then so be it, that’s his choice and he can deal with it. As far as I am concerned one less bad guy is always a good thing.

I would not be surprised if good guy gets some kind of charge although what I could not say. IANAL
 
For those who aren't registered
Boston.com said:
Tuesday, September 25, 2007
Framingham store clerk, with more powerful gun, turns table on armed robber

By Emily A. Canal, Globe Correspondent

A grocery store clerk in Framingham had a surprise Monday night for a would-be robber who flashed a .22-caliber Ruger and demand cash, police said.

The grocery store clerk pulled out a more powerful gun.

After looking at the .22, the clerk at A & J grocery on Kendall Street grabbed a .45-caliber semi-automatic gun and loaded a bullet into the chamber, police said. As the failed robber fled, the clerk pulled the trigger, shooting a bullet that missed the man but hit an ATM machine and a door inside the store, police said.

"After the suspect was shot at, he proceeded to flee on foot toward Freeman Street," said Lieutenant Paul Shastany of the Framingham Police Department. "We searched the area to the best of our ability but could not locate the suspect."

Police did not release the name of the clerk, who was in his 40s. The robbery suspect was described as a black male with medium to dark colored skin who was between the ages of 18 and 25. He is approximately 5 feet 8 inches and 165 pounds and was wearing a red hooded sweatshirt and dark pants.

The shooting at about 9:30 p.m. remains under investigation.
Click to expand...
 
The shooting at about 9:30 p.m. remains under investigation.
Click to expand...

This tells me that they're thinking of charging him with something. I would assume that this convenience store had some type of surveillance, so the perp pointing the gun should be obvious.
 
UPDATE Store owner shoots at would-be robber

from the metrowestdailynews.com

!!!!!! Looks like no charges for the shooter !!!
A PD gets it. How refreshing.



FRAMINGHAM -
A Framingham store clerk shot at an unidentified man who tried to rob his store last night.

The A&J Market owner on Kendall Street missed the suspect, who ran from the store around 9:30 p.m. without getting any money.

The store owner is licensed to carry a gun, police spokesman Lt. Paul Shastany said.

"He (the store owner) was definitely in peril," he said. "There is no question about it - he is lucky the other guy didn't shoot him."

The suspect is described as a black man, 18- to 25-years-old, about 5 feet 8 inches tall to 5 feet 9 inches tall, 165 pounds to 175 pounds with no distinguishable accent, Shastany said.

The suspect wore dark pants and a red-hooded sweatshirt that covered most of his face.

Anyone with information about the identity of the suspect is asked to call 508-620-4923. Callers can remain anonymous.
 
Ripach said:
This tells me that they're thinking of charging him with something. I would assume that this convenience store had some type of surveillance, so the perp pointing the gun should be obvious.
Click to expand...

This is standard PIO boilerplate for stories like this. They tell the reporter that the case is still under investigation so they have a good tag line for the story.

I think you'll find that the Hindenburg burn and crash is "still under investigation".

Gary
 
I agree that the store keeper needs to learn to carry cocked and locked. He could have easily been killed if the robber was serious enough to shoot. He got lucky...hopefully he saved enough of that luck to keep him out of hot water for firing at a fleeing suspect.
 
I'm reminded of a police officer telling me once... "If you shoot him in the back, turn him around, sit him up and shoot him in the shoulder. Then, you can argue that the first shot had him facing you and it spun him around and the second shot landed on his back." Of course I would never do something like this. :)

I agree with earlier postings, this guy is the luckiest guy in the world. Would have been luckier if he kept it locked, cocked and ready to rock.
 
Alchemist said:
I agree with earlier postings, this guy is the luckiest guy in the world. Would have been luckier if he kept it locked, cocked and ready to rock.
Click to expand...

I'm sure I'll be branded a Heretic, but I have to wonder if a 1911 was a good choice for him to use for self defense? If he's not experienced enough to carry it in Condition 1, maybe he should think about something like a Glock or S&W M&P.

Not that it really matters since I doubt he reads this forum! [grin]
 
Someone didn't go to class.

Did anyone see the following article in the Glob?

I realize that the Glob reporter might have completely messed up the story, but it seems to me that the victim shot at a fleeing person who was no longer a threat to his person. Second, he shot off his mouth to the reporter, which announced to the world that he carries a gun. I'm guessing that he has never taken an LFI-type class because he certainly would have acted differently if he had.

************************************************

Grocer thwarts robbery attempt
Fires gun at suspect in Framingham store; no arrests reported

By Brian R. Ballou, Globe Staff | September 26, 2007

FRAMINGHAM - Tony Tavarez called yesterday a new beginning.

"I feel like I'm reborn," said Tavarez, the owner of A&J Grocery, a small neighborhood convenience store just east of downtown Framingham.

"When you stare down a barrel of a gun and survive, man, it changes you just like that," Tavarez said, snapping his fingers.

On Thursday, at 9:30 p.m., a shadowy figure in a red, hooded sweatshirt burst into the store on Kendall Street, pointed a .22-caliber handgun at Tavarez's face, and said, "Give me your money."

Tavarez, a soft-spoken father of two, was alone, sitting and watching CNN on a small monitor on the counter.

Only the man's eyes were visible. Tavarez said he looked at those eyes for a fraction of a second, then rose from his cushioned office chair. He yanked his .45-caliber handgun from its hip holster, cocked the gun, and pointed it at the man, he said.

The would-be robber yelled an expletive and sprinted toward the front door. Tavarez fired, aiming for the man's lower body, but the bullet pierced the store's portable ATM, located near the front door. The suspect fled down Freeman Street.

Framingham and State Police are continuing to search for the suspect.

Tavarez, 38, who has owned the store for two years, said yesterday that he acted out of instinct, although he had never been in such a situation.

"It was survival," he said. "I thought I was going to get shot, and I decided I didn't want to go out like that. He probably thought I was a soft target."

Tavarez said other people who find themselves in a robbery situation should just hand over the money.

Lieutenant Paul Shastany of the Framingham police agreed.

"We don't recommend that people try to outdraw or outduel a suspect with a gun," he said. "In most cases that ends tragically."

Other than a grainy photograph taken from a video surveillance camera inside the store, police have no leads, Shastany said.

Tavarez has carried a gun permit since 1994 and often goes to shooting ranges with his friends, some of whom are police officers.

He wears the weapon to the store because he often works alone. Tavarez is also a part-time constable. He occasionally delivers court orders or divorce papers.

"I've wondered what I would do in a situation like that, and I guess I found out last night," Tavarez said, moments after chatting with a Framingham police detective inside the store.

"What I did had a lot to do with my daughters," he said. "I wouldn't want them to grow up without a father."

Tavarez's longtime girlfriend - Julie Rodriguez, 33, who is the mother of his daughters, ages 14 and 5 - said he is not a violent person.

"But he's not afraid to stand his ground," she added. "I don't think he would hurt anyone, but what happened, his reaction, I would expect that from him."

Shastany said that on Saturday, a check-cashing store less than a quarter-mile from A&J Grocery was robbed. The suspects tied the clerk's hands with duct tape and locked her in the bathroom.

"It's just not normal for the downtown area," Shastany said.

He said the department is increasing its patrols of the area. He said the robberies do not appear to be connected.

People who frequent Tavarez's store described him as likable.

"I came in the other day, and I didn't have enough change for a 12-ounce soda, but he just took my 75 cents and said that's fine," said Tom Roy, , 19, a frequent customer, "so he's a real cool guy."
 
Garys said:
I'm sure I'll be branded a Heretic, but I have to wonder if a 1911 was a good choice for him to use for self defense? If he's not experienced enough to carry it in Condition 1, maybe he should think about something like a Glock or S&W M&P.
Click to expand...
You just made our point for us... 1911 for real men, Glock for the beginners. [devil]
Garys said:
Not that it really matters since I doubt he reads this forum! [grin]
Click to expand...
Even if he does, his lawyer was probably telling him to keep clammed up until the cops said that he did nothing wrong.
 
dwarven1 said:
You just made our point for us... 1911 for real men, Glock for the beginners. [devil]
Click to expand...

What makes you think beginners aren't real men? I'd rather say that you use the gun that is going to give you the best chance of survival, not a fashion accessory. [wink]

"We don't recommend that people try to outdraw or outduel a suspect with a gun," he said. "In most cases that ends tragically."
Click to expand...

... often for the bad guy. Which of course no ranking PO in this state is going to say. What if "what the robber wants" is no witness to testify later? What if your wife or daughter is there and he wants them? Surrender is for the French, not Americans.

Gary
 
Garys said:
What makes you think beginners aren't real men? I'd rather say that you use the gun that is going to give you the best chance of survival, not a fashion accessory. [wink]
Click to expand...
I knew I'd get a rise out of someone that way... [wink]

Seriously, you use whatever gun you can accurately get into play as fast as possible. So no matter what that is, Glock, 1911, AMT .380 backup - I'd think that's what you want to use.

Garys said:
often for the bad guy. Which of course no ranking PO in this state is going to say.
Click to expand...
Probably worried about liability - someone hears him say that, tries to outdraw perp, gets crippled... it's the PO's fault for encouraging him to try it!!! Waaahhhhh!!! But if he never got training in using his gun... whose fault is it???
 
Firetarr said:
Don't you think the bank that owns the ATM will try to sue the clerk?
That poor unarmed ATM, what will happen to it's family? [rofl][rofl2]
Click to expand...

A lot of convenience stores own their own mini ATMs. They can verify the card status and they charge fees, but the store gets the fees.

Gary
 

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