Whats with the plastic?

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coastie

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SO I have picked up a used 10/22 and a used Beretta 92FS in the last few months. What is with the plastic? Ruger has a whole plastic trigger housing, trigger and barrel band. The Beretta has a plastic trigger, guide rod, mag release and it looks like the safety is plastic too. The worst is probably the 10/22, the plastic trigger housing seems like it rattles a bit ad when I take it apart a couple of the pins just fall right out. As for the Beretta the guide rod and the trigger bother me but it is as much aesthetics and the fact that I dont like plastic. I own older versions of both and they are 2 of my favorite firearms. They are all metal. I looked online and I found a kit for all the metal for the 92 if I want to go that route. Does anyone make a metal trigger housing for the 10/22?
 
I just bought my father a new ruger MKIII and the frame was a plastic. I didn't realize it till I got home, because I have a MK III that is all metal. I just assumed it was a satin type finish.

It is all an effort to cut costs. Plastic is easier to make after the initial tooling investment. It takes time to machine and finish a steel piece.
 
[cerberus];2486264 said:
I just bought my father a new ruger MKIII and the frame was a plastic. I didn't realize it till I got home, because I have a MK III that is all metal. I just assumed it was a satin type finish.

It is all an effort to cut costs. Plastic is easier to make after the initial tooling investment. It takes time to machine and finish a steel piece.
Click to expand...

Was it a Mk 3 22/45? Those have always had polymer frames.
 
the new 92 trigger is a polymer coated metal. You can buy an all metal trigger and put it in.
 
Stolen completely from the Beretta forum...

There is a misconception that polymer parts (it's not plastic) are not as good as metal. The parts in the 92FS that appear to be polymer are mostly polymer coated metal parts. There are a few reasons that Beretta has done this. The smaller amount of metal requred to produce the polymer coated parts saves considerably on raw materials and machining. This translates to a great savings to Beretta, and in turn, the end user (Consumers, US DoD, etc.). Beretta didn't just do it as something to save money, and researched it at great length prior to introducing these newer parts. They found that there are some advantages to the polymer coated parts. Polymer (by its very nature) is self-lubricating, and they don't wear on other components as much. An added benefit is that there is no finish to wear off the polymer.

Regarding the guide rod, as this is a sore spot with some people... The M9 contract had a lot to do with this one. One of the problems with the metal guide rods is that if they bend even a little for any reason, it can inhibit the slide's action (slow slide or binding). The polymer is not only flexible, but self-lubricating so even if it's bent, it goes back into position and keeps working.The fluting adds strength to the design, while allowing the spring and slide to actuate more freely if there is debris. All the guide rod is for is a guide for the spring, but if the slide binds on it, it's a problem. Thus, polymer.

List of possible Polymer Parts (most parts listed here, on new pistols other than Inox, will be polymer coated)
Trigger
Left Safety Lever
Mag Catch/Release Button
Hammer Spring Cap (if has a lanyard loop)
Recoil Spring Guide Rod
Grips
Click to expand...

http://www.berettaforum.net/vb/faq.php?faq=bf_faq_bhandguns#faq_bf_faq_bh_plastic_parts
This says it better than I ever could...

The polymer guide rod is supposedly more reliable in harsh environments (desert sand) than a steel guide rod.

Yes Beretta sells steel guide rods. I bought one - just in case. It is still in the original unopened packaging. My 92FS has over 2000 rounds through it without a problem. The polymer guide rod has certainly not been a problem.
 
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OldNorth said:
Go to this page on Ruger's website and on the right hand side click the video that talks about the 10/22 polymer trigger guard. They drop a weight on the cast TG and then the poly. The cast shatters and it bounces off the poly.

http://ruger.com/products/1022Carbine/extras.html
Click to expand...

I saw that and if I were concerned with dropping weights on the trigger guard I would stick with the poly. My poly trigger guard moves all over the place. I imagine that has to have some effect on the accuracy and trigger pull. Also when I break the rifle down the pins just fall right out of the poly trigger guard. On my old Ruger with the metal guard it doesnt.

As for the Beretta it is more aesthetics. I dont like the feel of the plastic trigger or the looks of the plastic guide rod.
 
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I don't like the plastic feel / finish at all, BUT it keeps cost down (for us the consumer as well as the manufacturer) and it also keeps weight down depending on what parts were replaced. I think we will see more and more of this as polymers evolve to be even stronger.
 
I was watching a video on Ruger's website of them doing a weight drop test on to aluminum and on to the polymer.
The aluminum trigger guard broke off, and the polymer bounced the weight that was dropped on it back up. Pretty interesting..
 
I like 10-22's as for cost when they switched to plastic the prices didn't go down. If they had I would accept that excuse. The old man died and the guys in charge now care more about profit margins.

Again I like and own Rugers, but it's the same as when Black & Decker moved to Mexico to save on U.S. labor, irons didn't get cheaper to buy.
 
Inferno said:
I was watching a video on Ruger's website of them doing a weight drop test on to aluminum and on to the polymer.
The aluminum trigger guard broke off, and the polymer bounced the weight that was dropped on it back up. Pretty interesting..
Click to expand...

depends on aluminum, there are too many alloys.

jaypap said:
I like 10-22's as for cost when they switched to plastic the prices didn't go down. If they had I would accept that excuse. The old man died and the guys in charge now care more about profit margins.

Again I like and own Rugers, but it's the same as when Black & Decker moved to Mexico to save on U.S. labor, irons didn't get cheaper to buy.
Click to expand...

Exactly like with groceries, smaller boxers same or higher price.

There is a misconception that polymer parts (it's not plastic) are not as good as metal
Click to expand...

no misconception, mother****er, THEY ARE NOT AS GOOD AS METAL.
 
This hate for polymer parts on guns is like listening to an old timer bitch about fuel injection.

The polymer is cheaper, lighter, will not rust, and while not as tough as steel, it is still pretty damn durable. Will a polymer gun last 100+ years like a 1911? Probably not. Will they last 20? Easily.

Polymer guns run in the $250-$600 price range (for the most part). They are disposable guns that aren't designed to last 300 years. I myself like carrying around a gun that weighs in under 2 pounds and costs less than a weeks pay.

The public wants cheaper, lighter guns. Polymer is what we got, and I am quite happy with it. If you want steel, buy a used older model.
 
With my Beretta changing those parts out had more to do with personal preference vs performance. On the 10/22 that plastic trigger guard moved all over the place. I can take it and twist it in my hands. I have no doubt that has an effect on accuracy. I changed that out and my groups improved by about 1/2" at 50 yds. It wasnt the most scientific of tests but it was the same box of ammo and everything. Only change was the trigger guard.
 
Why is this so new for so many people? Polymer/plastics. Am I wrong but hasn't ruger. Been in the polymer injection part business for a long time. Not to forget the Remington NYLON SERIES of firearms from the 50s and 60s. My nylon 66 is still going strong gets minimal cleaning and is more reliable than any 10/22 I have owned....I cant find the source but I believe Remington stopped the nylon series because of EPA ISSUES and it was getting costly for materials. Polymer if done rights can be better in applications than steel. Personally I don't like the feel of polymer. Prefer steel and wood for looks but when it comes to guns I'm going to use as a tool...plinking carrying or what have you I expect it to wear and tear possible brake and not upset if it doesn't go beyound 20 years.
I have other " holiday" or special guns I hope my family is taking out on special days in 100 plus years.
 
I have no problem with polymer, but am tired of hearing 'its NOT plastic...its polymer'

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
 
jaypap said:
I like 10-22's as for cost when they switched to plastic the prices didn't go down. If they had I would accept that excuse. The old man died and the guys in charge now care more about profit margins.

Again I like and own Rugers, but it's the same as when Black & Decker moved to Mexico to save on U.S. labor, irons didn't get cheaper to buy.
Click to expand...

And what would it cost to make a 10/22 today the way they did 20+ years ago???

a switch to plastic was made to keep prices form going UP and remain competitive in a very small profit margin item in a very crowded market place. This has nothing to do with "excuses" or anyone dying. Bottom line is 99% of the people buying a 10/22 wouldnt pay an extra $100 just to have a few extra metal parts the way it was made years ago.

What is your issue with a business "caring about profit margins"??? how do you expect them to remain in business if they dont?
 

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