Which 1911 for Everyday Carry?

[fbirdquik6]

I carry a S&W scandium frame full size government model. Easy to conceal under a tshirt. Holster is key.

 

[howitzer11]

Best 1911 carry would be a glock 19.

 

[chinalfr]

Best 1911 carry would be a glock 19.

Like this?

 

[howitzer11]

Nice work! That is hillarious.

 

[Knob Creek]

My Officers sized 1991:

 

[Twigg]

I just found a Colt Officers, a Colt New Agent and a Springfield Micro at Stateline over in Mason.

And me with no $$ [sad2]

 

[Pondhill]

I carry my WartHog It goes bang for me all the time.

 

[Mark from ?]

I can vouch for the reliability of a Rock Island Officers.....the sights and grips suck, but the gun is reliable as hell...for a great price.

All in all I prefer a Glock 30SF....ten rounds of 45 in a pretty compact package....

 

[two-rocks]

My vote goes to the kimber solo sa pistol, in Stainless. It looks nice .

It IS nice, my Solo goes everywhere and is more accurate than I am....but the OP wanted something for large hands. For me, a large, heavy gun is just too uncomfortable, making it a burden to carry. If things are a burden, they usually don't get done!

I downsized my cell phone, carry minimal keys, thin wallet with minimal plastic junk, etc, etc...prepared but comfortable ;-)

 

[Dream to Dream]

Like this?...[/IMG]

I gotta admit, that's a pretty good Photochop, at least to my untrained eyes.

 

[Dream to Dream]

I downsized my cell phone, carry minimal keys, thin wallet with minimal plastic junk, etc, etc...prepared but comfortable ;-)

I've done the same, but my keys are always the problem. With all my work keys on me 24/7, the whole thing weighs in over 1/2 a pound. Kind of a pain...

 

[Sbh87]

I too am interested in a 1911 for carry. What is the best store in MA to look for a government model since that seems to be a popular choice among people in this thread. I live in Western Mass but I am willing to drive wherever so don't be afraid to suggest stores out east. I also looked at the S&W E-series online and the ones without the round butt look good but I'm not sure of those are mass compliant yet or if they ever will be. Does anyone know about either of my questions.

 

[tj western ma]

I carry a smith Pro Series Sub compact. Once I got the kinks out and got 500 rounds down the barrel, it goes bang everytime.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'd argue that the modern 1911 with it's several internal and external safeties is the safest gun out there with the possible exception of a modern revolver.

Removing the thumb safety when drawing is almost instinctive even to a noob.

A 1911 is always the same when shooting it. No single, double action worries, the same trigger pull each time and no reholstering worries like a Glock can sometimes be.

Don't let the cocked and locked thing worry you at all.

 

[mark056]

I'd argue that the modern 1911 with it's several internal and external safeties is the safest gun out there with the possible exception of a modern revolver.

Removing the thumb safety when drawing is almost instinctive even to a noob. A 1911 is always the same when shooting it. No single, double action worries, the same trigger pull each time and no reholstering worries like a Glock can sometimes be. Don't let the cocked and locked thing worry you at all.

While I agree with you and have carried the 1911, the Hi-Power , and the Colt Govt Model .380 "cocked and locked" and have absolutely no reservations whatever about the inherent safety of carrying that way, frankly I have always been concerned about fumbling the safety from a draw under high pressure conditions. For me, I like the idea of a thumbreak type holster for a SA auto. Maybe something like a Blackhawk Serpa would be okay as an alternative.

Now back in the day, I was carrying a very nice Series 70 Colt in a Safariland front rake thumbbreak holster and I know that the pistol was in Condition One. I was riding around in a car with it in open carry Arizona. Later, when I unholstered I discovered that the thumb safety had worked its way off. I theorize that because of the can't of the holster, and the butt of the .45 against the seat, movement caused the pistol to move in such a way that the safety became disengaged by pressing against the top strap of the thumbreak.

Releasing the thumb safety on the draw is intuitive but I am not sure how instinctive. You have probably done it tens of thousands of times, and could do it well. I personally don't want to be messing with safeties under stress which is why I have always preferred DA autos and DA revolvers. For me locked and cocked would mean unsnapping holster and then taking off safety, two things that I have to do on the draw, and for me two potential points of failure. A lot of people would say horsefeathers to that, but I know what works for me. I'm not a Jeff Cooper or a Pilgrim in that regard .

Condition One works well for a lot of people, no doubt about that.

 

[M1911]

While I agree with you and have carried the 1911, the Hi-Power , and the Colt Govt Model .380 "cocked and locked" and have absolutely no reservations whatever about the inherent safety of carrying that way, frankly I have always been concerned about fumbling the safety from a draw under high pressure conditions.

That's really just down to training. Personally, I think it takes less time to master proper handling of the safety than it does to learn how to handle the DA/SA transition of a traditional double-action semi-auto.

For me, I like the idea of a thumbreak type holster for a SA auto. Maybe something like a Blackhawk Serpa would be okay.

I disagree on both points. A traditional thumb strap is just something to get tangled in the trigger guard while holstering. And if you forgot to set the thumb safety prior to holstering, then it is possible that the thumb strap could snag the trigger. In other words, the thumb strap reduces safety, it doesn't increase it.

As for the Serpa, just no. It requires you to push in on a button with your trigger finger. That makes it easy for your trigger finger to wind up on the trigger during the draw. In my opinion, the Serpa is ergonomically flawed -- it is simply too easy to screw up while using one.

If you really want a retention holster, then get a Safariland ALS, which suffers from neither of these flaws.

Now back in the day, I was carrying a very nice Series 70 Colt in a Safariland front rake thumbbreak holster and I know that the pistol was in Condition One. I was riding around in a car with it in open carry Arizona. Later, when I unholstered I discovered that the thumb safety had worked its way off. I theorize that because of the can't of the holster, and the butt of the .45 against the seat, movement caused the pistol to move in such a way that the safety became disengaged by pressing against the top strap of the thumbreak.

First, the solution to that is to replace the holster. Second, the safety became disengaged. So? The gun isn't going to go off until you pull the trigger.

 

[Pilgrim]

Later, when I unholstered I discovered that the thumb safety had worked its way off.

That's something I used to worry about too, but then I remembered that the grip still has to be squeezed and there is still a hammer block to prevent it from going off...and a half cock position to get thru.

Once you really understand how it works, you will feel very safe with it.

I've purposely clicked the thumb safety off and dropped the gun several times (unloaded of course) to see what would happen.....nothing. I'm not saying it's impossible that it will go off. but no more likely than a revolver.

JMB was no dummy.

 

[Keystone]

I've done the same, but my keys are always the problem. With all my work keys on me 24/7, the whole thing weighs in over 1/2 a pound. Kind of a pain...

If you think they are a pain for YOU, just think what some gremlin will think of them when you beat him in the face with half a pound of keys...

 

[mark056]

That's really just down to training. Personally, I think it takes less time to master proper handling of the safety than it does to learn how to handle the DA/SA transition of a traditional double-action semi-auto.

I disagree on both points. A traditional thumb strap is just something to get tangled in the trigger guard while holstering. And if you forgot to set the thumb safety prior to holstering, then it is possible that the thumb strap could snag the trigger. In other words, the thumb strap reduces safety, it doesn't increase it.

As for the Serpa, just no. It requires you to push in on a button with your trigger finger. That makes it easy for your trigger finger to wind up on the trigger during the draw. In my opinion, the Serpa is ergonomically flawed -- it is simply too easy to screw up while using one.

If you really want a retention holster, then get a Safariland ALS, which suffers from neither of these flaws.


First, the solution to that is to replace the holster. Second, the safety became disengaged. So? The gun isn't going to go off until you pull the trigger.

Well...my first semi-auto was an S&W 39, it was the original DA semi made in the US. I went over to the 1911 after reading a lot of Jeff Cooper. I practiced a lot with my Colt Series 70, and even more so with the Browning Hi-Power, but frankly I have always had reservations about flicking off that damn thumb safety. It is like when I had to qualify with hand grenades. I kept having this scenario in my mind that when I put the hand back to throw the grenade that somehow one way or the other, the grenade was going to roll out of my hand and explode behind me. Totally an emotional response, but you know from all of your training that visualization is an integral part of the training concept.

With regard to holsters, that holster that I was referring to was replaced decades ago. As far as the Blackhawk Serpa holster goes, to me it is instinctive and intuitive and I have practiced drawing thousands of times and my finger has never found itself on the trigger. I know that Safariland uses the accidental finger on the trigger scenario in its marketing, and I know that there have been some AD's where some numbnut has put his finger on the trigger. To me, this argument is as emotionally based as my concern about fumbling a thumb safety. It all boils down to training and keeping one's hand off the trigger until being ready to fire. People have been known to fumble with thumb safeties, just as they have been known to put their finger on the trigger when drawing from a Serpa holster, it is a matter of training, practice and practice and visualization.

While it is true as the late Lt Col Cooper would say that: "the ultimate safety is between your ears, and that one should never rely on any kind of mechanical device" I think he would also agree that one should shoot the handgun that they are the most comfortable with. Of course Clint Smith says that handguns weren't meant to be comfortable, but comforting which is meant in the context of carrying, not from a user confidence standpoint.

Your response is what a 1911 pistolero would state, I have seen before, read it before, talked before. I have carried the 1911 as a primary defensive weapon both in the Army and in civilian life. I love the Browning Hi-Power, they are great guns and I love shooting both of these fine weapons and in fact own several examples of each. In fact, it is not shooting them that causes me concern, it is simply in the presentation of the weapon and ensuring that the safety is off. For me, it is either a traditional DA auto (the transition from DA to SA never bothered me because I didn't know any better) DA only auto, or a DA revolver. Your mileage may vary.

M1911 you are one of those true believers, whereas I went to the services, heard the preacher, was impressed with what I heard, and respect the Gospel According to Jeff Cooper who received the holy writ from John Moses Browning, but I'll stick to the faith that I am most comfortable with. There is nothing in your post that I intellectually disagree with the possible exception of your concerns about the Serpa system.

I am reminded of a story about an old Texas Ranger (I forget the name) who tied a pieced of rawhide lace around the grip to deactivate the grip safety. He also kept the thumb safety off and carried his .45 in the waistband of his trousers, literally in Condition Zero. Someone asked him if that was dangerous. He replied something to the effect that: "damn right it is, guns are supposed to be dangerous."

To each their own, the great thing we still have about this country is that we have so many choices !

P.S. to Pilgrim: I have a pretty good understanding of how the M1911 works and how the grip safety works, and as you know the Series 80 type guns have three safeties: thumb, grip, and firing pin. It ain't the gun I'm worried about .

 

[M1911]

With regard to holsters, that holster that I was referring to was replaced decades ago. As far as the Blackhawk Serpa holster goes, to me it is instinctive and intuitive and I have practiced drawing thousands of times and my finger has never found itself on the trigger. I know that Safariland uses the accidental finger on the trigger scenario in its marketing, and I know that there have been some AD's where some numbnut has put his finger on the trigger. To me, this argument is as emotionally based as my concern about fumbling a thumb safety. It all boils down to training and keeping one's hand off the trigger until being ready to fire. People have been known to fumble with thumb safeties, just as they have been known to put their finger on the trigger when drawing from a Serpa holster, it is a matter of training, practice and practice and visualization.

I disagree with this. Suppose I built an airliner and in the center control area, right below the throttles, I placed two switches. One switch lowered the landing gear. Another switch shutdown the engines. Both switches were shaped identically. I'd bet that there would be a rash of airliner crashes, due to inadvertent shutdown of the engines while on final approach.

You could argue that this was just a training issue -- the pilots just pulled the wrong switch. True, they did. But the design facilitated that mistake due to bad ergonomics.

And that is my problem with the Serpa -- the design facilitates this type of mistake. You have to push inward with your trigger finger as you withdraw the gun. If you push for too long, your finger can end up in the trigger guard. That is just as much a recipe for a mistake as my postulated cockpit design.

In contrast, the Safariland design does not require you to push inwards with your trigger finger, and thus does not run this same risk.

M1911 you are one of those true believers, whereas I went to the services, heard the preacher, was impressed with what I heard, and respect the Gospel According to Jeff Cooper who received the holy writ from John Moses Browning, bur I'll stick to the faith that I am most comfortable with.

While I do like 1911s, I do recognize their many issues - sometimes questionable reliability, low capacity, etc.

 

[TheRoland]

I've purposely clicked the thumb safety off and dropped the gun several times (unloaded of course) to see what would happen.....nothing. I'm not saying it's impossible that it will go off. but no more likely than a revolver.

JMB was no dummy.

I'm totally not worried about cocked-and-locked, but just as a reminder, the Series 70 1911 is not drop-safe. You risk a discharge from as little as 4 feet onto concrete. Series 80s and other modifications with firing-pin-blocks are different, but those who use a traditional 1911 should take extra care to avoid a loaded drop.

 

[M1911]

those who use a traditional 1911 should take extra care to avoid a loaded drop.

I also recommend replacing the firing pin with a titanium pin and replacing the firing pin retaining spring with an extra power spring.
A fellow over at 10-8forums did some drop testing and found that the titanium firing pin significantly improved drop safety: http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92823#Post92823

 

[Woodstock]

I too am interested in a 1911 for carry. What is the best store in MA to look for a government model since that seems to be a popular choice among people in this thread. I live in Western Mass but I am willing to drive wherever so don't be afraid to suggest stores out east. I also looked at the S&W E-series online and the ones without the round butt look good but I'm not sure of those are mass compliant yet or if they ever will be. Does anyone know about either of my questions.

S&W Shooting Sports Center is right off Page Blvd., AAA Guns is on Main St. in West Side, and there's a good little shop just off Main St. in Agawam. I can't recall the name, but it i run by Chris & Judy, both shooters and very helpful.

 

[Dream to Dream]

S&W Shooting Sports Center is right off Page Blvd., AAA Guns is on Main St. in West Side, and there's a good little shop just off Main St. in Agawam. I can't recall the name, but it i run by Chris & Judy, both shooters and very helpful.

Don't forget Guns and Gun Parts in West Springfield, just outside of Westfield. Mike is a great guy, and while his selection doesn't quite compare to AAA, his shop is definitely worth a visit.