Winchester Model 12, little help please?

[01SVTvert]

OK, not sure if this is normal but I figured I could ask here.

I used a Winchester Model 12 and at the pumpkin shoot you have to press the action release after pulling the trigger and firing a shot to cycle the action. I thought that on most shotguns you only have to press the release if you HAVENT pulled the trigger to get the action to cycle.

For me at least its damn clumsy pushing the release every shot and I couldnt figure a way to hold the grip where the release is always in. Worse, with a left hander this becomes one ugly dance to get to fire more than one shot in a hurry.

Anyone familiar with the action of a Model 12 enough to tell me if this is normal? I broke the gun down and everything seems to be in working order. The only thing I noticed is that the action release spring is completely without tension when the hammer is in the released position. Once the hammer is cocked, the release is put under tension but there is a bit of slop on the spring when the hammer is at the released position.

Thanks in advance.

 

[seanc]

If memory serves correctly...that is a safety feature. I have known plenty of people that use model 12s for skeet and trap. I believe it is a simple operation to disable this.

 

[RKG]

1) If what you are saying is that you cannot cycle your Model 12 via the fore end slide after dropping the hammer without pushing the slide lock release, then your Model 12 is NOT functioning properly (or as designed).

2) As far as I know, all pumps have a slide lock. This is not to be confused with the system that locks the bolt against chamber pressure; it is, rather, a device that prevents the user from inadvertently opening a loaded and cocked gun sufficiently as to prevent it from firing.

3) In general, slide locks work by detecting the position of either the hammer or the firing pin. When the hammer is all the way down or the firing pin is all the way forward, a pin or lever is displaced, which deflects the slide lock device. The position detecting mechanism is generally located in the bolt where it is based on firing pin position and typically located in the fire control mechanism where it is based on hammer position.

4) On those pumps that either do not have a hammer or use a concealed hammer, there is always a second means of defeating the slide lock, usually a small button located either just in front or just aft of the trigger. Pumps that have external hammers (e.g., the 1890 Winchester .22 pumps, and later variants) don't need a second slide release button; per the book, you unlock the slide lock by carefully thumb lowering the hammer. Alternatively, you can push in the back of the firing pin with your right pinky while pulling back on the slide with your left hand.

5) It has been an awfully long time since I've had a Model 12 -- perhaps the best pump shotgun ever made -- in my hands. From dim memory, however, the slide lock is based on hammer position and consists of a plate that is part of the fire control mechanism located on the left side (viewed from the shooter's position), plus a long lever that resides in the left side of the receiver and has two springs attached to it.

6) My guess is that someone once detail stripped your Model 12 and incorrectly reassembled the fire control parts. Ordinarily, I'd suggest taking it apart yourself and figuring out how it should be correctly assembled. However, I seem to recall that the firing control assembly of the Model 12 is unusually complicated and that Winchester itself discouraged disassembly by people other than qualified gunsmiths.

7) So I recommend you find a gunsmith and have him fix your Model 12. I'd also recommend you suspend shooting it until that is done. If the slide lock device is sufficiently non-conforming that it doesn't respond to hammer position, there is a risk that one of these days it will also fail to respond to a button push. If that happens, you'll be stuck with a loaded shotgun and no way to open the bolt. Tends to make for a bad day.

8) Sorry I can't be of more help, but, as I said, it has been quite a while.

 

[01SVTvert]

Thanks for the info.

I found out on another shotgun board that there are (two?) springs that work on the release and that one is not pushing the release up after the hammer falls as it should. Recommended to be brought to a gunsmith seems to be the way to go as the info on how to disassemble the tirgger group is nonexistant.

thanks again