Found this article about the EasyTrust available from SilencerCo, "SilencerCo Now Sells NFA Trusts for $129".
Further evidence of the race to the bottom in NFA trust pricing.
Further evidence of the race to the bottom in NFA trust pricing.
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Would you buy SilencerCo's $129 NFA Trust?
- Thread starter Kevin_NH
- Start date
it's probably less customized and more generic than attorney written trust but i'm sure company consulted one or even has one on retainer to keep up with various states laws peculiarities.
not a bad deal. one stop shop. why not. i would.
not a bad deal. one stop shop. why not. i would.
If 41P goes into effect we'll see these kits at Overstock or the local dollar store?
How cheap is too cheap? Link to that deal
Looks like 199trust has been as low as $49 in the past, and there's another company offering a $39.95 NFA trust kit.
How cheap is too cheap? Link to that deal
Looks like 199trust has been as low as $49 in the past, and there's another company offering a $39.95 NFA trust kit.
I think what you're seeing is a natural (and healthy) function of competition, but also microeconomics: with online "fill-in the blanks" NFA trusts, it's all about start-up costs. Once you've covered your initial investment in developing a suite of forms, and both a back end and a front end for your site (all of which can be pretty costly), it's going to be nearly 100% profit, as the marginal cost of providing each additional form is close to $0.00.
That being said, a colleague of mine and I are working on launching our own online form service (with the option of add-on legal services). We're going to be pricing very competitively.
That being said, a colleague of mine and I are working on launching our own online form service (with the option of add-on legal services). We're going to be pricing very competitively.
keep us posted
![[sad]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/004.gif "Sad [sad]")
I would if your only planning on owning a few SBR's and suppressors. I used Quicken / Nolo for two approved stamps. Cost me $34.00. However it's not exactly just fill in the boxes. You will need to be able to edit the pdf. file to change your Trust's name. You will need some sort of idea of what you want for your estate planning.
If down the road you want to start spending big money on firearms there is nothing stopping you from paying a lawyer to set up a new trust that will meet your needs.
If you go the DIY route the below link has screen shots for each step of the E-file process on the ATF website. One thing it is missing is that for those of you in MA you will need to submit a copy of your LTC.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/415446_Visual_guide__How_to_fill_out_a_Form_1_using_EFORMS.html
If down the road you want to start spending big money on firearms there is nothing stopping you from paying a lawyer to set up a new trust that will meet your needs.
If you go the DIY route the below link has screen shots for each step of the E-file process on the ATF website. One thing it is missing is that for those of you in MA you will need to submit a copy of your LTC.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_17/415446_Visual_guide__How_to_fill_out_a_Form_1_using_EFORMS.html
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If someone wants to upgrade their DIY NFA trust there's no need to form a new trust. You can contact an attorney that specializes in NFA trusts and they'll be able to amend and restate your trust in a form designed for holding title to NFA items. I've done this for a few clients and it's relatively affordable.
i may one day want to spruce mine up as things have changed since i originally established it, change up minor details and i had some questions about beneficiaries. what's your rate for that?
won't be for some time, but it's on my to do list.
And it seems that I have usurped you as the leader! I purchased Willmaker 2008 from Barnes and Noble online for $1! They TOTALLY screwed me on shipping though, cost me quadruple what the software cost me...
A question for those of you that purchased your NFA trust online from a form vendor (such as 199trust, Easytrust, Coyote, etc.): why did you chose that particular vendor? Were there other considerations other than just price?
Maybe it's just me but my trust isn't about pleasing the ATF, it's about protecting my investment and ensuring that everything goes according to plan.
I've seen a $100 trust that was 3 pages and could have easily fit on one. You can't tell me that offers the same protection that a customized 15-20 page trust does.
If I'm protecting a $10-15k investment I'm going to spend more than $50.
I've seen a $100 trust that was 3 pages and could have easily fit on one. You can't tell me that offers the same protection that a customized 15-20 page trust does.
If I'm protecting a $10-15k investment I'm going to spend more than $50.
Does size matter? A bigger and more complex document isn't always a better document.
Producing a brief but effective document requires more skill and effort than throwing together a long and overly complex one by cutting and pasting from various sources.
Apple Law Firm (GunTrust.com, GunTrustLawyer.com, etc) is one of the firms that makes their trust long and complex and detailed, so it "feels" like you get more value for your money. But do you?
For example, their standard trust incorporates the entire wording of the current Federal Law definition of "Prohibited Person", ending with "Any person who is otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm". Given that final clause, incorporating the existing Federal Law as part of the trust paperwork is pointless, just adding bulk but no value.
Producing a brief but effective document requires more skill and effort than throwing together a long and overly complex one by cutting and pasting from various sources.
Apple Law Firm (GunTrust.com, GunTrustLawyer.com, etc) is one of the firms that makes their trust long and complex and detailed, so it "feels" like you get more value for your money. But do you?
For example, their standard trust incorporates the entire wording of the current Federal Law definition of "Prohibited Person", ending with "Any person who is otherwise prohibited from possessing a firearm". Given that final clause, incorporating the existing Federal Law as part of the trust paperwork is pointless, just adding bulk but no value.
Reputation (e.g. reviews by other customers), and how long they've been in the NFA trust business.
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Perfectly happy with my $85 Coyote Rifleworks trust. It's not for planning a $2 million estate, it's for a lousy $600 SBR...and primarily the convenience of E filing. I think people are WAY overthinking this.
What made you chose Coyote over 199trust? Was Coyote cheaper at that time?
Generally speaking, conciseness in legal drafting is desirable. And it is true that it takes more skill to accomplish the same objectives with fewer words. But I would question whether a trust agreement shorter than 10 pages really accounts for all of the scenarios that it should. I can tell you that each and every line in my trusts are there for a reason.
It's important to keep in mind that a trust can last for generations (or perpetually in Maine or New Hampshire). Situations change. And sometimes even the parties to the trust can change. While my trusts may contain more bells and whistles than a particular client may need at any one time, I'd rather those provisions be there when and if things change.
Even if my clients tell me they are forming a trust merely to use eForms, I feel obliged to provide them with a solid legal instrument, as well as helpful ancillary documents. As a legal professional, using ATF acceptance of a trust as a performance standard seems perilously close to legal malpractice.
While this may seem like padding to you, it's actually something I include in my trusts as well. Why do I include it? Because it gives the reader a baseline understanding of the categories of federally prohibited persons, without the need to Google the definition (which in the statute itself is split among a couple subsections). It's a delicate balance choosing what should and shouldn't be included in a legal instrument, but one of the primary goals of legal drafting, aside from conciseness, is completeness. If you have to do outside research in order to understand a legal instrument, the drafter didn't do his work properly.
Got it. Thanks for your response.
Sorry for the slow response, I didn't see your question earlier. Right now I'm charging an hourly rate for amendments, but I may start to offer this on a flat fee basis, as it's becoming a more frequent request (hence, I'm able to streamline the process). The fees generally end up around $100-120 dollars, depending on how much work is involved (my rate is presently $150 per hour). I know that's more than a lot of people paid for their trust, but when working with me as an attorney, you're paying for my time and counsel, not just the form (although I think my trusts are superior to the others that I've seen).
I'll be offering trust amendments (without legal counsel) on my trust generator site, which I'm hoping to roll out in a few weeks.
In their article about the "NRA Firearms Law Seminar ", Gun Trust Lawyer pounded on Silencerco's EasyTrust.
This is the competition and GTL makes their money selling expensive trusts, so take their words with a grain of salt.
GunTrustLawyer said:
This is the competition and GTL makes their money selling expensive trusts, so take their words with a grain of salt.
