-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
Wow!
- Thread starter Admin
- Start date
"Cobb County Police spokesman Dana Pierce said the veteran instructor was "very traumatized" and had to seek medical attention."
Not near as traumatized as the student. Tragic situation. Hopefully just a freak accident.
Not near as traumatized as the student. Tragic situation. Hopefully just a freak accident.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2005
- Messages
- 245
- Likes
- 1
I wonder if the instructor was one certain DEA agent? 
OK, maybe it's just me, but (1) why was there any live ammunition in a classroom*, and (2) was the topic of the lesson "when in doubt, just assume the gun's unloaded"?
Ken
* Except, of course, for the personal defense tool which is never mentioned and only touched if I'd be justified in killing a student.
Ken
* Except, of course, for the personal defense tool which is never mentioned and only touched if I'd be justified in killing a student.
derek said:
The ONLY AD's are when the gun malfunctions, not due to operator error, and MUST be pointed in a safe direction, or they're an ND. That doesn't happen very often. Army standard if you screw up at the clearing barrel? ND, and an Article 15.
This is being called an "accident"?
Details of the accident also were not released Tuesday night.
How's this for details?
1. The instructor was not treating the gun as if it were loaded.
2. The instructor failed to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
3. The instructor failed to keep his finger off the trigger until ready to fire the weapon.
4. The instructor was not "sure of his target" and what was beyond.
If you violate all four of these basic rules of firearms safety, and someone is killed as a result of that, it's no accident.
Details of the accident also were not released Tuesday night.
How's this for details?
1. The instructor was not treating the gun as if it were loaded.
2. The instructor failed to keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction.
3. The instructor failed to keep his finger off the trigger until ready to fire the weapon.
4. The instructor was not "sure of his target" and what was beyond.
If you violate all four of these basic rules of firearms safety, and someone is killed as a result of that, it's no accident.
And this instructor shouldn't be teaching again.
Chris
NES Member
- Joined
- May 24, 2005
- Messages
- 14,049
- Likes
- 9,615
Makes us all look bad.
I once had an instructor casually place a pistol down on the table in front of him so that the muzzle was pointed directly at me. This was at one of the 'well known' schools out west.
My reaction was less than subtle as I stood up, walked around my table to the front, grabbed the gun, verified it was empty and then placed it back on the table pointed in a safe direction. On my way back to my chair, I heard mim mumble 'sorry'.
I finished the class the following day, but wrote a letter to the school explaining why I was never going to take another of their classes. Never heard anything from them regarding thse issue but that mumbled 'sorry'. I hope it was a freak event, but their attitude totally turned me off.
Just this weekend I held a Home Firearm Safety class. Had a guy point a gun at his own wife during the 'make it safe' drill. I grabed that gun quite fast and the guy actually started to argue with me that I just hurt his hand. I calmly pointed to his wife and said "perhaps you would like to explain to that young lady why you pointed an unsafe firearm at her." When he realized what I was saying, his attitude changed.
I'm no saint. I've had my own share of safety violations over the years. I just hope that we can all learn from the errors that do not result in any damage to prevent the ones that mgiht.
I once had an instructor casually place a pistol down on the table in front of him so that the muzzle was pointed directly at me. This was at one of the 'well known' schools out west.
My reaction was less than subtle as I stood up, walked around my table to the front, grabbed the gun, verified it was empty and then placed it back on the table pointed in a safe direction. On my way back to my chair, I heard mim mumble 'sorry'.
I finished the class the following day, but wrote a letter to the school explaining why I was never going to take another of their classes. Never heard anything from them regarding thse issue but that mumbled 'sorry'. I hope it was a freak event, but their attitude totally turned me off.
Just this weekend I held a Home Firearm Safety class. Had a guy point a gun at his own wife during the 'make it safe' drill. I grabed that gun quite fast and the guy actually started to argue with me that I just hurt his hand. I calmly pointed to his wife and said "perhaps you would like to explain to that young lady why you pointed an unsafe firearm at her." When he realized what I was saying, his attitude changed.
I'm no saint. I've had my own share of safety violations over the years. I just hope that we can all learn from the errors that do not result in any damage to prevent the ones that mgiht.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Chris said:
When I took my Mom shooting, she started to turn to me with my PPK in her hands... you can bet I that I grabbed that gun PDQ and made sure that it stayed pointed downrange. Since this was her first time on the range, I was sort of expecting a little carelessness, which is why I was so close and so quick to react.
It's like anything that's just being learned... they'll make mistakes before it gets burned into their synapses to keep the muzzle in a safe direction. My nephew did it too... and got the same reaction: my hand grabbing his and making sure that that muzzle stayed where it was supposed to.
Which is why I think that instructor should be facing some charges... it's a shame that he can't be charged with stupidity!
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 57,033
- Likes
- 21,182
Well, if we're telling war stories . . .
- When I worked for the local PD, each officer had to type a report at the end of the shift. The left us an old 1930s vintage clunker to use (the IBM Selectric was intentionally disabled - Secretary locked the font balls up in her desk each night). I'm typing my report at end of shift (on only table in officers locker room) when an officer comes in for the next shift. He removed his PDW and placed it on the table facing my gut! Two weeks later there was a divot in the back wall behind that typewriter from a ND!
- When I worked as an Aux PO for BC PD, I walked into the Lt's office to conduct some business. He unholsters his .38 snubby and puts it on the desk pointing at me. He then picks it up and places it down again, same thing. Each time I just moved around the other side of the desk as Frank didn't take kindly to ever being told that he was wrong! I told a good friend (Det Sgt at BCPD) and he was aghast! Sgt tells me that Frank used to run the MA State Police firearms training at their academy . . . I knew that he was a retired MSP Lt prior to joining BCPD. A few years later, Frank must have snapped as he picked up a fake gun that they had confiscated and allegedly pointed it at one of his dispatching officers as well as others. There were charges filed, at least one lawsuit and a number of stories in the Boston Globe about it . . . Frank took an early retirement.
- When I worked for the local PD, each officer had to type a report at the end of the shift. The left us an old 1930s vintage clunker to use (the IBM Selectric was intentionally disabled - Secretary locked the font balls up in her desk each night). I'm typing my report at end of shift (on only table in officers locker room) when an officer comes in for the next shift. He removed his PDW and placed it on the table facing my gut! Two weeks later there was a divot in the back wall behind that typewriter from a ND!
- When I worked as an Aux PO for BC PD, I walked into the Lt's office to conduct some business. He unholsters his .38 snubby and puts it on the desk pointing at me. He then picks it up and places it down again, same thing. Each time I just moved around the other side of the desk as Frank didn't take kindly to ever being told that he was wrong! I told a good friend (Det Sgt at BCPD) and he was aghast! Sgt tells me that Frank used to run the MA State Police firearms training at their academy . . . I knew that he was a retired MSP Lt prior to joining BCPD. A few years later, Frank must have snapped as he picked up a fake gun that they had confiscated and allegedly pointed it at one of his dispatching officers as well as others. There were charges filed, at least one lawsuit and a number of stories in the Boston Globe about it . . . Frank took an early retirement.
Well if we are telling war stories...Before Alan joined the guard,we took him to the unit he is now apart of. Alan's recruiter introduced us to the CO and the Co took us on a tour of the armory and the arms room. Now keep in mind Alan has been around guns all his life,knows to make sure they are cleared and pointing in a safe direction.
The CO took us to the arms room,grabbed an M4 off the rack and just handed it to Alan,Alan immediately made sure it was cleared,handed back to the CO and the CO realised he screwed up. The Spec4 that was in the arms room was oh so trying not to bust a gut.
The CO took us to the arms room,grabbed an M4 off the rack and just handed it to Alan,Alan immediately made sure it was cleared,handed back to the CO and the CO realised he screwed up. The Spec4 that was in the arms room was oh so trying not to bust a gut.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Here's the latest: http://www.ajc.com/search/content/auto/epaper/editions/today/metro_3492c147e47c22ed0063.html
Basically, the instructor was demonstrating how to draw a weapon... with a loaded, working firearm. And state policy prohibits working firearms from the classroom.
Ross
Basically, the instructor was demonstrating how to draw a weapon... with a loaded, working firearm. And state policy prohibits working firearms from the classroom.
Ross
