WWII .38 S&W Revolver

cfreedman

cfreedman

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When I received my LTC two months ago, my father gave me my grandfather's WWII sidearm. The revolver is in excellent condition and shoots like a charm. The only issue with it is that it chambers .38 S&W ammo, which is near impossible to find. I was able to get 200 rounds after a month of searching but once again I cannot find anymore. I was wondering if anyone had any experience reloading this ammo. I have no experience reloading myself but if it is the only way to continue to shoot the revolver, I am very willing to learn. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

All the Best,
Curtis
 
Same here, but I don't have any firearms chambered specifically to shoot it. Seems as though I have some old factory ammo in 38 S&W, too, but I'll have to dig it out to inventory it. You can find load data in most manuals. In fact, "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition" lists 5 cast bullets from 92g to 158g for the 38 S&W (aka .38 Colt New Police and 380Mk1). Please note that bullets are sized to .360" not .358" as in most 38 Spl/357 Magnums. You'll also find cautions about using modern load data for older top-break revolvers.

I'll throw this in for free...
It looks like the Ideal (Lyman) mold #358246 is the "Standard bullet for 38 S&W revolver. Case to crimp in top groove preventing bullet from receding. The extra band in front gives a longer bearing for the rifling. Powder charge 12 grains F F F g black, or 2 grains weight Hercules Bullseye powder..." (Ideal Hand Book #35)
 
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I have 28 rounds of old Remington 38 S&W 146 gr. LRN Rem. If you want to take a ride out to Watertown, it's yours for the taking. I can help you out with reloading if you're considering a Dillon 550B press too.

-Kevin
 
EddieCoyle said:
I load it. What would you like to know?
Click to expand...

EddieCoyle, Thank you very much for the response. I would say my biggest question is whether I will be able to buy bullets and brass going forward in order to make it worthwhile to set myself up to load this ammo as it would be the only ammo I use worth reloading at this point. If so, what would you recommend as far as a loading press for someone that has never loaded a round of ammo in his life? Finally, where is the best place to buy the needed tools and supplies to begin loading. Thanks. I really appreciate it.

Curtis
 
NavelOfficer said:
Same here, but I don't have any firearms chambered specifically to shoot it. Seems as though I have some old factory ammo in 38 S&W, too, but I'll have to dig it out to inventory it. You can find load data in most manuals. In fact, "Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 3rd Edition" lists 5 cast bullets from 92g to 158g for the 38 S&W (aka .38 Colt New Police and 380Mk1). Please note that bullets are sized to .360" not .358" as in most 38 Spl/357 Magnums. You'll also find cautions about using modern load data for older top-break revolvers.

I'll throw this in for free...
It looks like the Ideal (Lyman) mold #358246 is the "Standard bullet for 38 S&W revolver. Case to crimp in top groove preventing bullet from receding. The extra band in front gives a longer bearing for the rifling. Powder charge 12 grains F F F g black, or 2 grains weight Hercules Bullseye powder..." (Ideal Hand Book #35)
Click to expand...

NavelOfficer, Thank you very much for the response. I will certainly look into this as my desire to shoot this revolver far exceeds the number of rounds I have for this gun. I just hope I have enough rounds/will power to preserve the remaining rounds until I am up and running loading my own. Thanks.

Curtis
 
Kevin l said:
I have 28 rounds of old Remington 38 S&W 146 gr. LRN Rem. If you want to take a ride out to Watertown, it's yours for the taking. I can help you out with reloading if you're considering a Dillon 550B press too.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin,

Thank you very much for the response. I think I might just have to take you up on your offer as I live right around the corner in Brighton. I have actually done some research on the Dillon 550B press, I just am struggling a bit to understand it enough to buy without seeing it in person. I will send you a PM and we can pick a time for me to swing by. Thanks. I really appreciate it.

All the Best,
Curtis
 
cfreedman said:
EddieCoyle, Thank you very much for the response. I would say my biggest question is whether I will be able to buy bullets and brass going forward in order to make it worthwhile to set myself up to load this ammo as it would be the only ammo I use worth reloading at this point. If so, what would you recommend as far as a loading press for someone that has never loaded a round of ammo in his life? Finally, where is the best place to buy the needed tools and supplies to begin loading. Thanks. I really appreciate it.

Curtis
Click to expand...

Components are as readily available as any in Mass. MidwayUSA is a good place to get tools and equipment (but they won't ship components to Mass). If you're only going to be loading for the .38 S&W to start, get a good single stage press, then upgrade to a Hornady or Dillon progressive when you get hooked and start to reload everything.

Start by buying The ABCs of Reloading from Amazon.com.
 
EddieCoyle said:
Components are as readily available as any in Mass. MidwayUSA is a good place to get tools and equipment (but they won't ship components to Mass). If you're only going to be loading for the .38 S&W to start, get a good single stage press, then upgrade to a Hornady or Dillon progressive when you get hooked and start to reload everything.

Start by buying The ABCs of Reloading from Amazon.com.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, as I understand it, the bore for the .38S&W is larger than a standard .38spl. Where are you finding properly sized projectiles? My grandfather has an old top-break .38S&W revolver, and factory ammo is a bit cost prohibitive. I would pick up some dies if I knew where to find properly sized projectiles to reload for it.

For the OP: I have been able to find factory ammo (magtec iirc) @ State Line in Mason, NH
 
Although a bit pricey, Buffalo Arms (http://www.buffaloarms.com/about.htm ) seems to have most obscure dies, molds and such. A modest search online will uncover older, possibly discontinued bullet molds that will drop suitable bullets for the .38 S&W. Even most .358" molds will drop a bullet that can be sized at .360", but you'll have to experiment to verify this in every instance. Like I mentioned above, start looking for the Ideal/Lyman 358246. This bullet is specifically for 38 S&W (granted, Ideal H.B. 35 is dated 1948, but it's still valid, I believe).

Here are a few other possibilities for molds for that 38 S&W:
358250, 358311, 358395, 358416, 358425. You'll have to verify that #358xxx molds drop bullets large enough to be sized to .360. As I recall, the Remington 148g HBWC (similar to #358395) always miked to ~.3605", so that should be out of the box ready for 38 S&W loading.
Also, #36071, 36072, 36073, 360363-S, 360271, 360303, 360344 and 360345

Good luck!
 
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Stopped by Hoffmans in Newington, CT today and they had Remington 146g RN ammunition at $30.99 a box. That was the only 38 S&W ammo to be seen.

If you ever make it down I-95 enroute to NYC or Southport, CT stop in at Hansen's. They're likely to have some older 38 S&W ammo on the counter, too. They deal with estates and such and always seem to have some more of the obscure pass through their shop. Limited hours, but worth a look/call. http://hansenguns.com/
 
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NavelOfficer said:
Stopped by Hoffmans in Newington, CT today and they had Remington 146g RN ammunition at $30.99 a box. That was the only 38 S&W ammo to be seen.

If you ever make it down I-95 enroute to NYC or Southport, CT stop in at Hansen's. They're likely to have some older 38 S&W ammo on the counter, too. They deal with estates and such and always seem to have some more of the obscure pass trhough their shop. Limited hours, but worth a look/call. http://hansenguns.com/
Click to expand...

Thanks. Will check out next time I am in CT.

Curtis
 
Does your revolver say .38 S&W Special? If your grandfather was in the US military they didnt issue .38 S&W during WWII that I know of. My grandfathers S&W Victory model is a .38 S&W Special. I believe all the .38 S&W were shipped to the british and othe Commonwealth countries.
 
coastie said:
Does your revolver say .38 S&W Special? If your grandfather was in the US military they didnt issue .38 S&W during WWII that I know of. My grandfathers S&W Victory model is a .38 S&W Special. I believe all the .38 S&W were shipped to the british and othe Commonwealth countries.
Click to expand...

He was a paratrooper for the US Army in WWII and he carried a .38 S&W revolver as his sidearm.
 
coastie said:
Does your revolver say .38 S&W Special? If your grandfather was in the US military they didnt issue .38 S&W during WWII that I know of. My grandfathers S&W Victory model is a .38 S&W Special. I believe all the .38 S&W were shipped to the british and othe Commonwealth countries.
Click to expand...

He was a paratrooper for the US Army in WWII and he carried a .38 S&W revolver as his sidearm.
 
I have seen Internet references which indicate that paratroopers were allowed to purchase and carry whatever sidearm they wanted. Standard issue was the M1911:
http://ww2ky.moreheadstate.edu/page10.html
http://www.wwiiguns.com/101_airborne/101_airborne.html
http://orbat.com/site/us2002/files/6/USParachuteInfantryinWorldWarII.pdf

The .38 S&W is widely discussed as a British issue.

It's possible that your grandfather either purchased and used his .38 S&W instead of the issued M1911.

Or, he traded some Brit for the Brit's .38 S&W (candy bars or cigarettes could have been a good trade), and kept that as a souvenir when he had to turn in his M1911 at war's end..
 
The Brits called it .38/200, because they loaded it with a 200 grain LRN bullet.

Just to make sure everyone is on the same page: a "S&W .38" and ".38 S&W" refer to entirely different things.
 
cfreedman,

.38s&w brass is available from XXXXXXXX and any mould that will drop a bullet at .360-.361" will work well. .38 s&w dies are available, but i use standard .38/357 dies from lyman to load for my enfield and s&w victory model. the loaded rounds have a "wasp-waisted" look to them, but work well.

9x18 makarov dies would probably do a good job with the proper shell holder and maybe even 9mm para dies.

budman
 
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Just picked up a tanker Enfield (DAO) and also not finding 38SW ammo anywhere. Anybody know of source, or brass (I load already).

And I thought my VZ52 rifle with 7.62x45 was an obscure caliber!

Thanks
Tim
 
Maybe the Magtech rep can assist you...or you can qualify as a group buyer or some such. http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages/pid54.php
Otherwise, with everybody else seemingly out of stock, it looks like Buffalo Arms might be the best source. They list a 38 S&W Long case (.78") My 38 S&W cases seem to be closer to .75"; the 38 Long is 1.02" http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,5331.html
Don't rule out Starline Brass directly... 38 S&W (Small Pistol primer) .767"-.773" O.A.L. (Backordered expected availability: 10/31/2010 )
Also known as the .38 Colt New Police and the .38 Super Police. CANNOT BE USED IN 38 SPECIAL.
Pack: 500 (+$75.25)1000 (+$127.65)
I will repeat again...call Hansen Guns in Southport, CT; I believe there are a few older boxes of loaded ammo on the counter.
Unfortunately, Prvi Partizan (Stratford, CT office) doesn't offer retail services, so they can't help you either.
http://prvipartizan.com/search_a.php
Article A-089
Caliber Bullet 38 Smith&Wesson
Type Bullet LRN
Weight[gr] Bullet 145
Weight[g] 9.4
Velocity [m/s] 210
Energy [J] 205
Barrel Length[mm] 135
Also, some worthwhile reading: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=71922
http://www.castpics.net/memberarticles/Bare Bottomed 358156HP.htm
 
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Thanks for all the help.

Picked up some very old 38SW from KTP yesterday from their "collectors" case. Cleaned them out, but they will be re-ordering new stuff. At least I have brass now!

BTW, company mentioned by NavelOfficer is out of all things 38SW at the moment.

-Tim
 
As mentioned in another reply in this forum, as of this noon (Thursday, 2 Sep 10) Silver City Sporting Arms, Inc (West Haven, CT) has about 12 boxes of fresh Remington 146g LRN ammunition in stock. It's around $35 a box, but he has it on the shelf!
32 S&W (Remington) available, too, but no 7.62x38R (non-Remington) as yet!
Incidentally, I finally made it down to Hansen's today and they are fresh out of 38 S&W indeed. There was a bag of older 38 ACP and even a dozen or so boxes of the ZV xx 7.62x45 for that model 52 rifle; it was the older greenish-boxed surplus fodder that doesn't always lightoff (so I hear). They have a pretty good supply of 50 BMG fodder however (primed cases, tips and loaded ammo).
 
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I use regular .38 caliber lead bullets (.358" diameter) when I reload for my .38 S&W Model 32 and get perfectly acceptable performance and accuracy, as do many others. You might save yourself some effort by trying that first.
 

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